New TVR still under wraps!

[DonkeyApple]

andy43 said:

Rezvani Beast Alpha - if that isn't a name suited to Orgasmic Living I don't know what is.
Slightly under-endowed with a 4 pot Honda...

Certainly reads like a name on a Neopolitan sex pest wanted poster.

[bomb]

julian64 said:

lfsv8 said:

New TVR has a rival for seriously purposeful looks:

Yep but its not that car. Its the trezor




I can't even see the completely naked girl standing in front of the car.

Edited by julian64 on Friday 18th November 12:08

That bodywork is going to be a 'challenge' for the speed humps around my way.

[m4tti]

Unfortunately the "trezor" shares an entry style like this bad boy.

[essexstu]

From what we know so far about the new car, its all good news and ticks a lot of the boxes. Top notch designer, proven engine with respected tuning by Cosworth, V8, noisy and target of 400 bhp per tonne indicating 500 bhp.

What we dont know is styling (which is going to be personal taste) and, more importantly? the price!

A key factor for me, and I assume others, is the price. I remember reading somewhere back in 2015, that the entry level car would be around £55k and the Launch Edition car would be some £20k more to reflect the enhanced power, aero styling, carbon fibre etc. So £75k for the LE car? I have also read that latest prices being banded about are over £90k but under £100k. If this is the price then for me it kills it. £90k+ buys some very high performance sports cars from established manufacturers. TVR must get the pricing spot on if they are to sell the initial run of 500 and not have a queue of depositeers asking for their deposits to be returned. If they have even 100 saying no thanks, thats too expensive, I think it will have a big negative on the whole project with 20% of the limited run unsold.

[RichB]

essexstu said:

...So £75k for the LE car? I have also read that latest prices being banded about are over £90k but under £100k. If this is the price then for me it kills it. £90k+ buys some very high performance sports cars from established manufacturers <clip>. ...

So what's the general concencus? It need to be competitive with a well spec'd Porsche Caymen S?

[NickOrangeCars]

essexstu said:

From what we know so far about the new car, its all good news and ticks a lot of the boxes. Top notch designer, proven engine with respected tuning by Cosworth, V8, noisy and target of 400 bhp per tonne indicating 500 bhp.

What we dont know is styling (which is going to be personal taste) and, more importantly? the price!

A key factor for me, and I assume others, is the price. I remember reading somewhere back in 2015, that the entry level car would be around £55k and the Launch Edition car would be some £20k more to reflect the enhanced power, aero styling, carbon fibre etc. So £75k for the LE car? I have also read that latest prices being banded about are over £90k but under £100k. If this is the price then for me it kills it. £90k+ buys some very high performance sports cars from established manufacturers. TVR must get the pricing spot on if they are to sell the initial run of 500 and not have a queue of depositeers asking for their deposits to be returned. If they have even 100 saying no thanks, thats too expensive, I think it will have a big negative on the whole project with 20% of the limited run unsold.

But this is what TVR's cost back then - this is the funny thing everyone is complaining about a £90k price tag - but in 1995 a TVR Cerbera 4.5 was base price of £46,500 - and that was without any 'extras' - if you use government inflation calculator that price in todays terms is £81,000 - and lets face it the materials used then were 'basic' - IF (and a big IF) they get the car out that a £90k - £100k price tag then they will have done very very well.

[essexstu]

not complaining, just think that many will think twice about paying £90k for a new car from a 'new' manufacturer when the alternatives are very capable and proven cars such as

Jaguar F type R £85k
Nissan GTR £78k
Porsche 911 S £85k

you could even buy a used Lamborghini V10 or Audi R8 V10 with 10k miles for that money. Just saying they need to be careful on pricing if they want all those who have paid a deposit to go ahead with actually buying the car. And I am one of them...

[Byker28i]

essexstu said:

From what we know so far about the new car, its all good news and ticks a lot of the boxes. Top notch designer, proven engine with respected tuning by Cosworth, V8, noisy and target of 400 bhp per tonne indicating 500 bhp.

What we dont know is styling (which is going to be personal taste) and, more importantly? the price!

A key factor for me, and I assume others, is the price. I remember reading somewhere back in 2015, that the entry level car would be around £55k and the Launch Edition car would be some £20k more to reflect the enhanced power, aero styling, carbon fibre etc. So £75k for the LE car? I have also read that latest prices being banded about are over £90k but under £100k. If this is the price then for me it kills it. £90k+ buys some very high performance sports cars from established manufacturers. TVR must get the pricing spot on if they are to sell the initial run of 500 and not have a queue of depositeers asking for their deposits to be returned. If they have even 100 saying no thanks, thats too expensive, I think it will have a big negative on the whole project with 20% of the limited run unsold.

Not sure where you got that price. I believe it's always been in the £75-85k range (ish)

[ChilliWhizz]

essexstu said:

not complaining, just think that many will think twice about paying £90k for a new car from a 'new' manufacturer when the alternatives are very capable and proven cars such as

Jaguar F type R £85k
Nissan GTR £78k
Porsche 911 S £85k

you could even buy a used Lamborghini V10 or Audi R8 V10 with 10k miles for that money. Just saying they need to be careful on pricing if they want all those who have paid a deposit to go ahead with actually buying the car. And I am one of them...

Or a used V12 Vantage


Shirly though notwithstanding the initial purchase price one might expect a hand built English sports car to have significantly less depreciation when you drive it out of the showropm than many of the similarly priced but mass produced alternatives?

[Incognegro]

NickOrangeCars said:

essexstu said:

From what we know so far about the new car, its all good news and ticks a lot of the boxes. Top notch designer, proven engine with respected tuning by Cosworth, V8, noisy and target of 400 bhp per tonne indicating 500 bhp.

What we dont know is styling (which is going to be personal taste) and, more importantly? the price!

A key factor for me, and I assume others, is the price. I remember reading somewhere back in 2015, that the entry level car would be around £55k and the Launch Edition car would be some £20k more to reflect the enhanced power, aero styling, carbon fibre etc. So £75k for the LE car? I have also read that latest prices being banded about are over £90k but under £100k. If this is the price then for me it kills it. £90k+ buys some very high performance sports cars from established manufacturers. TVR must get the pricing spot on if they are to sell the initial run of 500 and not have a queue of depositeers asking for their deposits to be returned. If they have even 100 saying no thanks, thats too expensive, I think it will have a big negative on the whole project with 20% of the limited run unsold.

But this is what TVR's cost back then - this is the funny thing everyone is complaining about a £90k price tag - but in 1995 a TVR Cerbera 4.5 was base price of £46,500 - and that was without any 'extras' - if you use government inflation calculator that price in todays terms is £81,000 - and lets face it the materials used then were 'basic' - IF (and a big IF) they get the car out that a £90k - £100k price tag then they will have done very very well.

Fair point Nick but remember even back then in relative terms £46k was still half price of the cars it was giant killing. F355/360, 911s, xk8

I've always thought the primative no frills brute force for cheaper was the tvr way. However tLE and GMD are moving with the times it seems but for some reason don't want to be open and say it! Why not just say it will cost that money because it's that good?

[NickOrangeCars]

Incognegro said:

Fair point Nick but remember even back then in relative terms £46k was still half price of the cars it was giant killing. F355/360, 911s, xk8

I've always thought the primative no frills brute force for cheaper was the tvr way. However tLE and GMD are moving with the times it seems but for some reason don't want to be open and say it! Why not just say it will cost that money because it's that good?

But back then you really didn't have that much choice in sports cars, and definitely not cars that were also designed for the track like now in which we are swimming with options, you can now buy a very capable car £50-£65k M4 / Cayman / etc - as you say paying £46k was a bargain given the performance vs supercars of the day - but a £90k TVR now I fear is not going to come close to slaying any current day supercars e.g. Ferrari 488 / McLaren 650 / Lambo Huracan.

[julian64]

bomb said:

julian64 said:

lfsv8 said:

New TVR has a rival for seriously purposeful looks:

Yep but its not that car. Its the trezor




I can't even see the completely naked girl standing in front of the car.

Edited by julian64 on Friday 18th November 12:08

That bodywork is going to be a 'challenge' for the speed humps around my way.

I'm only suggesting it for styling cues. The splitter at the front doesn't have to be there. The width of the body is too big and the door entry needs to stop trying to be pink panther.

But its side profile is to die for.

The fact its a concept car makes it a bit more acceptable to borrow styling cues. Duplicating the 'beast' (which is the mank'est name the car industry has come up with since the motorsports division of Aston started calling itself the Q division ) would be asking for trouble, and it also looks a bit too saggy for my liking.

[Incognegro]

NickOrangeCars said:

Incognegro said:

Fair point Nick but remember even back then in relative terms £46k was still half price of the cars it was giant killing. F355/360, 911s, xk8

I've always thought the primative no frills brute force for cheaper was the tvr way. However tLE and GMD are moving with the times it seems but for some reason don't want to be open and say it! Why not just say it will cost that money because it's that good?

But back then you really didn't have that much choice in sports cars, and definitely not cars that were also designed for the track like now in which we are swimming with options, you can now buy a very capable car £50-£65k M4 / Cayman / etc - as you say paying £46k was a bargain given the performance vs supercars of the day - but a £90k TVR now I fear is not going to come close to slaying any current day supercars e.g. Ferrari 488 / McLaren 650 / Lambo Huracan.

When you put it that way for sure. Now heres a BUT... at 90 (half price of the othersish) the new TVR will not slay, but with what they talk of maybe hold its own??? not be embarrassed and getting towards those LIMITS would be deemed unsafe so the saving grace may be its capabilities in its own right?.. Again I can't see that happening as LS converted current TVRs have some great scope and with what Powers have produced with S6 developments add some Nitrons/Ohlins and well a £90k TVR will not be running away from the smartly spent on old ones!.. all in all If the New TVR is to appeal to buyers for relative performance I think £90k asking is too much IMO

[thefrog]

Incognegro said:

all in all If the New TVR is to appeal to buyers for relative performance I think £90k asking is too much IMO

Only performance ? The Morgan Plus 8 is £70k before you factor any options in, it's far from cheap and far from being a competitor to Lamborghini, Ferrari or Porsche in performance (inc. handling) terms, however there is a market for them.
I drive a TVR not only for its performance but because it's different, I looked into a Gallardo and was so disappointed, it could have been twice as quick and ten times better than the Cerbera, it felt bland and soul-less.

I hope TVR can deliver the soul TVRs of the past had and I'd hope that combined with more than reasonable performance overall it would be an attractive proposition away from the usual suspects.

Maybe it's a bit like choosing a watch made by a small or less known manufacturer rather than grabbing a similarly priced Rolex because that's what everybody else does

[Incognegro]

Totally agree. Hence why my quote starts with "if" one thing seeming flat is how they are marketing?

Selling a new car with 400bhp per tonne so it's going to be quick. Letting the rumours settle at around 90k so not going to destroy cars in its class. Why not more of how the car makes one feel, the true tvr experience! More than just "keeping tvr DNA" I very nearly went for a Nissan GT-R a few months back, but I just couldn't nothing has ever made me 'feel' like the Cerb and for what I paid relatively to other cars for the performance I gotta be the smuggest guy in the world.

Hope my points are understood. Long day, same tomorrow so I'm just rambling on an iPhone lol

[natben]

I have to confess to watching from afar on this. I haven't paid a deposit but I have avoided buying until I see what TVR are offering. I came very close recently to purchasing a Jaguar F Type, great car and the noise and handling is superb. But having owned a Cerbera and a Tuscan I have a hankering for another. It will have to go some to compete with the Jag but what they do have that appeals to me is the "different" "alternative" "non conformist" tag. I like that.
TVR drivers are different from Porsche, BMW, Merc, Ferrari owners. People don't snarl at you in a TVR like they do in some of the other brands ,actually they smile at you. Is it out of admiration or is it because the think /know you must be mad/mental to own one.
A freind who bought a Jag F -Type said "i love TVRs but I couldn't buy one, they are too brutal and not an every day car like my Jag". It got me thinking "Brutal" is good in my opinion but I would also need it to be an everyday car. Will the new TVR be an everday car? most of you guys will use your TVR as a second car, I did. but that was when I was paying £20-£30k for them. At £70 k i need to use it no garage queen. I want it to be mad, brutal, different but I also want it to drive like my Audi when I need it to. I wait with interest and it gives me time to keep saving unless I run out of patience and get a V8 F-Type, the clock is ticking!!.

[Sagbrit]

All the usual suspects chase lap times at the Ring....snore. TVR has always been about how they make you feel, how they make you grin, being non conformist. There is a gap in the market but they so need to get it right. It has to look raw and be achingly beautiful. For me the T350 is the best looker of the pack. It's a great starting point for the design. Most die hards will struggle at the entry price, maybe a few years after launch for me anyway...

[ClassiChimi]

Some say it's LE's dream to race at Le Mans and that's what his motorvation is,
A fantastic ambition I'll give him that
If this is a serious suggestion then from concept onwards it has to be a very impressive car.
Maybe that's the driver here, GM loves a good race car LE wants to win at Le Mans and that might be just the spark that sets this car off on a successful path, sometimes taking on what sounds like the impossible is half the reason to do it, it's a great motivator to build a special car.
Economical times are choppy, future unknown, if Tvr bring the car to market now or a few years down the line it doesn't change many things, it has to be a fantastic car first and foremost. Argue the price afterwards but if its a car that demands driver respect and then returns good lap times with good driving, you'll surely have a winner on your hands in this increasingly push button world.
The trouble I have with it is aren't you supposed to build a successful business first, then when the profits are rolling in create an expensive race team with mechanics and everything, go testing and waste st loads of money doing it before you even get near the pace.
If GM is as good as I'd like to think then maybe the car will be that good.
Major manufactures struggle to compete with all the finance you'd ever need,
The Le Mans thing seems far fetched if you know anything about racing but many a small team have proved people wrong so maybe Tvr can too.
I wish them well.

[glenrobbo]

An article from March 2015 is worth a read:
http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/item/114191-tv...
A sensible approach to future Le Mans participation.
Bear in mind that Les Edgar was in part responsible for Aston Martin's quite successful return to La Sarthe not so long ago.

[RichB]

glenrobbo said:

Bear in mind that Les Edgar was in part responsible for Aston Martin's quite successful return to La Sarthe not so long ago.

I didn't know that, what part did he play? Was it sponsorship, I can't remember.