New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
DavidY said:
Your domestic market might be a bit more uncertain, but your export potential has increased markedly with more favourable exchange rates, it does depend though on how much would have been bought in (originally sourced from overseas, from all suppliers) and how much is UK sourced and value add.
Yup but it's the uncertainty that's the killer for business projections that require funding rather than whether the potential changes are good or bad. For example, the FX aspect is a real wild card as of June. The GBP was hideously over valued and seriously damaging BoP and we need to keep it at more fair value levels such as where it is now but this means that all the future trade deals that are now required will be based around this new level so could become absolutely worthless at best and at worst devastating should the GBp over strengthen again.
At the same time the potential of capital flight from the EU has risen and that would force the GBP up when we need it down
The import aspect of components is massively up in the air regardless of the temporary brevity of low GBP because the looming need for trade deals and tariff risk is so much bigger.
And then we have the US raising rates and that process gathering pace. The UK will follow well ahead of the EU. That will have considerable impacts on both the GBP value and also the spending power of the domestic market. Will the potential buyers of new TVRs have more or less disposable income when rates increase?
Everything may transpire to be brilliant in a few years time but that's irrelevant when you are looking to borrow, fund and start up a complex and luxury market enterprise right in the middle of the core period of uncertainty.
$570bn of M&A deals were shelved this year because of these global uncertainties and that's the highest since the Credit Crunch of 2008 by some margin. No one is in the mood to fund or develop such risky deals at present.
PuffsBack said:
You have just answered your own question about why the Sagaris is regarded so highly. There is a major step forward in build quality. Loved my Cerbera but it was certainly the worst for build quality of my 4 TVR's
Oh and plus the fact the Cerbera used to get attention but nothing like the Sag
Never had the Saggy up on my ramp, so I accept you regard the saggy as a great step forward in production quality. Perhaps it is worth 2-3 times the other TVRs, but the real test will come when it isn't the last TVR anymore.Oh and plus the fact the Cerbera used to get attention but nothing like the Sag
Isn't there even a little voice telling you to sell the saggy now?
julian64 said:
Never had the Saggy up on my ramp, so I accept you regard the saggy as a great step forward in production quality. Perhaps it is worth 2-3 times the other TVRs, but the real test will come when it isn't the last TVR anymore.
Isn't there even a little voice telling you to sell the saggy now?
I actually suspect that values will hold as dealers will make the conventional switch from bending the car as the 'last and best TVR built' to being the 'last and best of the heritage, English built cars' etc. Isn't there even a little voice telling you to sell the saggy now?
It depends on how many current owners are owning a Sagaris to be important or because they like it. The former are likely to want to dump the old news and buy the new symbol exactly as you elude to but I suspect that the majority of those types of people have long moved onto the much better marques for image projection over the last decade.
Personally, I completely get your logic but suspect that many of those types have long left the marque and that the pre-existing marketing methods for handling 'factory location changes' will easily counter and such transactions.
If new TVR succeeds then being £100k+ aspirational products will mean that the 'classics' will rise and if it fails then I suspect the impact on the classics will be that they rise. All being constant re global market conditions.
DonkeyApple said:
I actually suspect that values will hold as dealers will make the conventional switch from bending the car as the 'last and best TVR built' to being the 'last and best of the heritage, English built cars' etc.
It depends on how many current owners are owning a Sagaris to be important or because they like it. The former are likely to want to dump the old news and buy the new symbol exactly as you elude to but I suspect that the majority of those types of people have long moved onto the much better marques for image projection over the last decade.
Personally, I completely get your logic but suspect that many of those types have long left the marque and that the pre-existing marketing methods for handling 'factory location changes' will easily counter and such transactions.
If new TVR succeeds then being £100k+ aspirational products will mean that the 'classics' will rise and if it fails then I suspect the impact on the classics will be that they rise. All being constant re global market conditions.
I agree. I think LE is nothing but good for TVR, and TVR owners, whatever may come. The worst case scenario for TVR was about four years ago.It depends on how many current owners are owning a Sagaris to be important or because they like it. The former are likely to want to dump the old news and buy the new symbol exactly as you elude to but I suspect that the majority of those types of people have long moved onto the much better marques for image projection over the last decade.
Personally, I completely get your logic but suspect that many of those types have long left the marque and that the pre-existing marketing methods for handling 'factory location changes' will easily counter and such transactions.
If new TVR succeeds then being £100k+ aspirational products will mean that the 'classics' will rise and if it fails then I suspect the impact on the classics will be that they rise. All being constant re global market conditions.
HarryW said:
Thinking about this, isn't it a strange request this long after starting their journey to suddenly realise a back catalogue of the Marque would be nice. Also I'm sure if they asked nicely the car club could do this from the archives quite easily. The heritage director joined the TVR Facebook groups and has contributed zero, don't think he has or every has owned a TVR, quite happily be corrected on that point, but that tells me a lot.
Part of me wants to think this is part of their business plan however I can't help but think it's just more noise....
They have a very large collection of old images that they acquired when they bought TVR, that include some very interesting previously unseen stuff, masses of advertising, press cuttings etc. As suggested above. they obviously want to engage with current owners and it makes perfect sense to go this route.Part of me wants to think this is part of their business plan however I can't help but think it's just more noise....
I'm a member of a good number of groups on FB, I'm sure plenty are, that I rarely or never contribute to but its interesting to see what pops up on posts for info.
You've also made a comment about someone you know nothing about, he actually has/had some strong TVR connections prior to working at TVR and apart from that he has access to several roadcars as well. Ownership is not always essential to be passionate or interested in something be it cars or other interests.
V8 GRF said:
HarryW said:
Thinking about this, isn't it a strange request this long after starting their journey to suddenly realise a back catalogue of the Marque would be nice. Also I'm sure if they asked nicely the car club could do this from the archives quite easily. The heritage director joined the TVR Facebook groups and has contributed zero, don't think he has or every has owned a TVR, quite happily be corrected on that point, but that tells me a lot.
Part of me wants to think this is part of their business plan however I can't help but think it's just more noise....
They have a very large collection of old images that they acquired when they bought TVR, that include some very interesting previously unseen stuff, masses of advertising, press cuttings etc. As suggested above. they obviously want to engage with current owners and it makes perfect sense to go this route.Part of me wants to think this is part of their business plan however I can't help but think it's just more noise....
I'm a member of a good number of groups on FB, I'm sure plenty are, that I rarely or never contribute to but its interesting to see what pops up on posts for info.
You've also made a comment about someone you know nothing about, he actually has/had some strong TVR connections prior to working at TVR and apart from that he has access to several roadcars as well. Ownership is not always essential to be passionate or interested in something be it cars or other interests.
HarryW said:
Byker28i said:
HarryW said:
thecook101 said:
Spotted this on http://tvr.co.uk/noise
15.12.2016. Existing TVR owners, your assistance is requested
Do you own a TVR? Is it a clean and generally unmodified example as the factory would have supplied? If the answer is yes then we would welcome you to make contact as we will be arranging a professional photoshoot to bolster the TVR graphic archives for some exciting future projects and your car could be the star!
Multiple photos will be taken of each vehicle involved, together with the recording of additional details, including possibly some video and this material will form a key part of a future presentation.
More details will follow but if you wish to be considered to take part, please contact us at heritage@tvr.co.uk marking the subject field with “Heritage Photoshoot” followed by your TVR variant (for example, “Heritage Photoshoot – Sagaris” or “Heritage Photoshoot – Cerbera”) and please also include a colour image of your car within the email. (A JPEG of at least 640 x 480 resolution is preferred.)
We wish to cover all variants of TVR, so please don’t be shy. Once we have a large enough field of applicants we will provide and request more details by return.
Interesting, not sure there are many clatter cam 1996 Cerbera 4.2's 'unmodified', as the engines went pop, mine went through two in the first year... If they are looking visually unmodified, then all well and good... Might have a punt but I have RL7 wheels now and that is probably the only thing a nerd could tell was different from when it left the factory during the first year of full Cerbera production...15.12.2016. Existing TVR owners, your assistance is requested
Do you own a TVR? Is it a clean and generally unmodified example as the factory would have supplied? If the answer is yes then we would welcome you to make contact as we will be arranging a professional photoshoot to bolster the TVR graphic archives for some exciting future projects and your car could be the star!
Multiple photos will be taken of each vehicle involved, together with the recording of additional details, including possibly some video and this material will form a key part of a future presentation.
More details will follow but if you wish to be considered to take part, please contact us at heritage@tvr.co.uk marking the subject field with “Heritage Photoshoot” followed by your TVR variant (for example, “Heritage Photoshoot – Sagaris” or “Heritage Photoshoot – Cerbera”) and please also include a colour image of your car within the email. (A JPEG of at least 640 x 480 resolution is preferred.)
We wish to cover all variants of TVR, so please don’t be shy. Once we have a large enough field of applicants we will provide and request more details by return.
1. The crank can't be one made of cast chocolate, perhaps it was a customer special with a small journal billet crank..has it ever been apart.
2. You ior the original owner declined the offer of refitting 'whisper' cams to it too.
:-)
julian64 said:
Never had the Saggy up on my ramp, so I accept you regard the saggy as a great step forward in production quality. Perhaps it is worth 2-3 times the other TVRs, but the real test will come when it isn't the last TVR anymore.
Isn't there even a little voice telling you to sell the saggy now?
Loved my Cerb but it was like a 5 year had been let loose with a jar of evostick on the inside. Glue marks everywhere. Holes for the interior lights looked like they had been cut with a rusty hacksaw and fell out every bump.Isn't there even a little voice telling you to sell the saggy now?
No voice at all, to me the break is to big, there is nothing left of TVR to link it to the past. To much of me is still the 8 year old boy with a poster of a TVR on the wall, not caring about performance, handling, egonomics, reliability etc, just the madness of it. Can't see the new car matching the Sagaris for pantomine. Its always been TVR that tugged my petrolhead heartstrings, and the new car just wont be a TVR to me
I think I've said before, for purely selfish reasons I want them to succeed because
1. New interest in TVR can only be good for all owners
2. It might increase the value (not just financial) of the older models
3. If you can't afford the new car now, it'll put new models into the secondhand market later on.
1. New interest in TVR can only be good for all owners
2. It might increase the value (not just financial) of the older models
3. If you can't afford the new car now, it'll put new models into the secondhand market later on.
Nice email from Les just in time for Christmas!
CHRISTMAS UPDATE - 2016
Dear Clive
As we head home for Christmas, I am pleased to be able to write to you with a note on the progress we have made since our last update.
Most importantly (and excitingly!) we are now able to confirm the timing and location of the first depositor reveal mentioned in my last note. We have had to shift the date slightly, for two reasons:
Firstly - logistics; we had an enormous response to the initial invitation, and this has required a re-think both of venue and presentation, as below -
Secondly - a more technical (and practical!) reason – anyone who has ever developed a car will tell you that it takes twice as long (and costs twice as much!) as anyone ever allows for, and that half the work lies in the last 5% of development and design. They aren't kidding! As such, it is only last week that we finally signed off the aero detailing to the rear of the car (I'll say no more about that pending the reveal, as we don't want to give the game away), meaning that the final iteration of the full size model has only just been commissioned, and will be with us late in January.
The original plan was for a single reveal with all invitees and their guests, in a large hall, but with 500 attendees already confirmed at the time of writing, we don’t believe this will be either as effective or personal as we want it to be.
We are therefore proposing more 'intimate' (if you'll forgive the phrase!) reveals over the weekends of 18/19th March and 25/26th March 2017, to be held at our design studio at Gordon Murray’s facility in Shalford, near to Guildford. (Click for location)
There will 2 morning and 2 afternoon sessions each day - each session being allocated on a first come first served basis - allowing proper interaction between our depositors and myself and the TVR team, with time for individual and group discussion and conversation, which I'm sure you'll agree is is much better, and much more 'TVR', than us addressing a conference room full of 500 people but managing to spend no meaningful time with any of you.
The facility at GMD has some pretty tight restrictions in place (principally of course because there are various other manufacturers’ equally confidential projects under development on site), so there are a number of procedures in place which we need to adhere to. We will need full name and address for each attendee (including guest), and photographic proof of ID will be required when you arrive. One person from each couple must be a depositor, and the invitations are non-transferable. We will forward visitor non-disclosure agreements for signature and return to us prior to the event. Sorry to be formal on this bit, but I’m sure you understand - and please, don't even think of trying to bend the rules or that you can sneak a mate in on the day - we have to ask that you respect both the letter and the spirit of the invitation.
There will be plenty of parking on site and we’d love you to come in your TVR if you can – we’ll reserve spaces for those that do where possible and there will be an official photographer present to capture the magic of the day. There will of course however be a total embargo on visitor photography - again, please respect this.
In closing, we are really looking forward to showing you what we’ve achieved, and formal invitations will issue early in the New year. We will also be announcing full details of the full public release later in the year - we can't share detail yet, but suffice to say we're delighted with the arrangements that are in hand.
On the twelfth day of Christmas our Truelove gave to we:
Twelve Petrol_heads,
Eleven years-a-waiting,
Ten - tenths commitment,
Nine months to launch,
Eight pistons firing,
Seven chaps from Cosworth,
Six cogs from Tremec (oops, did I say that out loud?!),
F i v e—hundred-cars,
Fourhundred brake a ton
Three french cops
Twohundredmiles an hour
And a chas-sis from Gor_don Murrrayy!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from everybody at TVR!
Les Edgar
Chairman
TVR Manufacturing Ltd
www.tvr.co.uk
CHRISTMAS UPDATE - 2016
Dear Clive
As we head home for Christmas, I am pleased to be able to write to you with a note on the progress we have made since our last update.
Most importantly (and excitingly!) we are now able to confirm the timing and location of the first depositor reveal mentioned in my last note. We have had to shift the date slightly, for two reasons:
Firstly - logistics; we had an enormous response to the initial invitation, and this has required a re-think both of venue and presentation, as below -
Secondly - a more technical (and practical!) reason – anyone who has ever developed a car will tell you that it takes twice as long (and costs twice as much!) as anyone ever allows for, and that half the work lies in the last 5% of development and design. They aren't kidding! As such, it is only last week that we finally signed off the aero detailing to the rear of the car (I'll say no more about that pending the reveal, as we don't want to give the game away), meaning that the final iteration of the full size model has only just been commissioned, and will be with us late in January.
The original plan was for a single reveal with all invitees and their guests, in a large hall, but with 500 attendees already confirmed at the time of writing, we don’t believe this will be either as effective or personal as we want it to be.
We are therefore proposing more 'intimate' (if you'll forgive the phrase!) reveals over the weekends of 18/19th March and 25/26th March 2017, to be held at our design studio at Gordon Murray’s facility in Shalford, near to Guildford. (Click for location)
There will 2 morning and 2 afternoon sessions each day - each session being allocated on a first come first served basis - allowing proper interaction between our depositors and myself and the TVR team, with time for individual and group discussion and conversation, which I'm sure you'll agree is is much better, and much more 'TVR', than us addressing a conference room full of 500 people but managing to spend no meaningful time with any of you.
The facility at GMD has some pretty tight restrictions in place (principally of course because there are various other manufacturers’ equally confidential projects under development on site), so there are a number of procedures in place which we need to adhere to. We will need full name and address for each attendee (including guest), and photographic proof of ID will be required when you arrive. One person from each couple must be a depositor, and the invitations are non-transferable. We will forward visitor non-disclosure agreements for signature and return to us prior to the event. Sorry to be formal on this bit, but I’m sure you understand - and please, don't even think of trying to bend the rules or that you can sneak a mate in on the day - we have to ask that you respect both the letter and the spirit of the invitation.
There will be plenty of parking on site and we’d love you to come in your TVR if you can – we’ll reserve spaces for those that do where possible and there will be an official photographer present to capture the magic of the day. There will of course however be a total embargo on visitor photography - again, please respect this.
In closing, we are really looking forward to showing you what we’ve achieved, and formal invitations will issue early in the New year. We will also be announcing full details of the full public release later in the year - we can't share detail yet, but suffice to say we're delighted with the arrangements that are in hand.
On the twelfth day of Christmas our Truelove gave to we:
Twelve Petrol_heads,
Eleven years-a-waiting,
Ten - tenths commitment,
Nine months to launch,
Eight pistons firing,
Seven chaps from Cosworth,
Six cogs from Tremec (oops, did I say that out loud?!),
F i v e—hundred-cars,
Fourhundred brake a ton
Three french cops
Twohundredmiles an hour
And a chas-sis from Gor_don Murrrayy!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from everybody at TVR!
Les Edgar
Chairman
TVR Manufacturing Ltd
www.tvr.co.uk
Slow M said:
Clive,
Thanks for sharing that bit of Christmas cheer!
Best regards,
Bernard.
My pleasure Bernard. Despite being a deposit-holder, I'm not sure I'll be able to amass the necessary funds if the price is much higher than the original figure mentioned by Les (£50k). I suspect that building the car to the specification he feels is right will mean the price will almost double. I'm afraid I'll then be looking to sell my place in the queue!Thanks for sharing that bit of Christmas cheer!
Best regards,
Bernard.
I think there may be a few TVR owners offering rides to attendees. RichB said:
I wonder how successful they'll be in keeping 1,000 people from posting a snapshot or two. 
"...with 500 attendees already confirmed at the time of writing..."
So that's 500 invited guests plus another 500 interlopers? I think the extra 500 may struggle to get past the powerfully built PH type doormen.
Edited by glenrobbo on Saturday 24th December 22:49
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