Surrey Roof improvements - Part II

[bomb]

Old photo, but the car stood in the rain all night. Nice and dry inside the following morning.

[bomb]

An - an old picture, but this shows the fit of my roof and the depth of the flap.

[bobfather]

ChimpOnGas said:

Agreed mate, not sure why mine is different unless Roger had improved the design by the time his trimmer made mine?

Mine is new, bought last December, I think looking at others that either the design is worsening or I was just unlucky. What ever the case I have to say Roger did not want to help and that left a bad taste in my mouth, these items are flipping expensive

ChimpOnGas said:

My solution to the bowing inner flap takes a different approach to yours, I will shortly have Dave The Trimmer stitch a small pochet to each end of the flap to which will be inserted a flexible steel rule, by a happy coincidence I found just the right size for the job and with careful spacing of the little stitched pockets at each end I will be able to spring the flexible steel rule in place when fitting the Surrey top.

I'd be very interested to see that, it sounds like a much better solution than my tie-wrap

ChimpOnGas said:

Try the Sugru stuff Bob, I bet you'll like it

Mine fits well now that I've fixed the upward rotation of the rear section. I would also worry that matching the green would be a bit hit & miss with Sugru




The front has always fitted well

ChimpOnGas said:

Since the above photos were taken I've also built up the underside of the rear header lip to lift the N/S drip rail away from the very rear corner of the window at that side of the car only, this has worked nicely stopping the glass just catching drip rail at that point.

Same here, I cut a spare length of fuel hose down the length then tapered the ends. Those are glued to the underside outer edges of the rear flange. This pushes out the edges to align them with the folding section and pushes the drip lip out to improve rain protection

[ChimpOnGas]

Looks like you've made some fantastic improvements Bob, but like yo say it's a shame Roger didn't offer support.

Sadly the Sugro is a non starter for your green roof, but lets keep sharing ideas and between us even without support from Roger we can make this great roof system even better.

Dave

[ChimpOnGas]

To continue this I've just been out to my car that's been sitting in the rain for most of this morning, I wanted to double check my "zero leaks" claim, so once the rain had subsided I removed the water from the outside of both door windows with a chamois leather to look for any evidence of water ingress.

The passenger side was completely dry but there was a tiny drip on the drivers side.



The source of this tiny drip to the inside of the car is the drip rail which is not 100% straight, I've highlighted the area above, the bowing is obviously a result of the drip rail needing to be flexible to allow the roof system to be folded up. The other side is better but still forms a rather wobbly buckled line when the roof is in place which is not ideal as obviously the glass it's designed to over hang is a flat surface, clearly some overhang is critical.

I conclude the drip rail (better described as drip beading) just needs stretching a fore and aft bit to straighten it which my rule idea should help with, but to get that bead to sit out over the glass where it needs to be it'll then need lifting a little in the places it tends to bow inwards.





In the above photo I'm rather radically demonstrating what's needed using my finger, but to achieve what's needed on a permanent basis the drip bead just needs is a bit of support underneath it where it bows inwards which I'm confident can be achieved with a little bit of Sugru. The blob of Sugru only needs to be small and you won't see it because it'll be stuck under the drip bead, being localised it won't restrict roof folding either.

So two little mods, the rule idea on the inner flaps and some localised support where needed under the drip bead and along with my Sugru corner profiling work the Surrey top fit can be easily customised to the my car.

I should point out the car was out in the pouring rain for three hours and all I was able to uncover was the tiniest drip inside in the car in one place on the drivers side door glass, after three hours this just left a few small drops on the vinyl door top trim so I'm being super fussy here by trying to eliminate it.

To put all this into perspective the truth is I've seen much worse water ingress on Chimaeras & Griffs fitted with the standard hard panel targa top, I'm more than happy to leave my car out for days on end in driving rain with my excellent Surrey top roof fitted just as it came from the maker which is praise indeed when you think about how these handmade cars can differ dimensionally from one to another.

I've left my Chimaera in a field in Le Mans over a three day period of solid and persistent heavy rain... and the car remained completely bone dry inside. The Surrey top really is a brilliant roof system, and with a few tweakscan be made to fit even better to your specific TVR.

Dave

[bomb]

I have also found that when you fit the roof, it can be moved slightly (sideways) until its in the absolute correct position, before 'locking' it into position and tensioning up. This very minor adjustment makes a difference to the way the windows fit and drip rails sit.

[bobfather]

ChimpOnGas said:

The nylon bead inside your drip lip looks twisted. Both sides on mine are straight so the drip lip gap is constant all the way along. Depending how tight the stitching is it may be possible to pull the bead out and replace it with a straight piece

[bluezeeland]

bomb said:

I have also found that when you fit the roof, it can be moved slightly (sideways) until its in the absolute correct position, before 'locking' it into position and tensioning up. This very minor adjustment makes a difference to the way the windows fit and drip rails sit.

I would second that. I too did Bob's bolt trick, but also still have the bent inner lip thingy, intend to insert a strip of alu or perspex in the lip to see if it gets better....

[ChimpOnGas]

bomb said:

I have also found that when you fit the roof, it can be moved slightly (sideways) until its in the absolute correct position, before 'locking' it into position and tensioning up. This very minor adjustment makes a difference to the way the windows fit and drip rails sit.

Yes you're right, I've found that myself.

bobfather said:

The nylon bead inside your drip lip looks twisted. Both sides on mine are straight so the drip lip gap is constant all the way along. Depending how tight the stitching is it may be possible to pull the bead out and replace it with a straight piece

That seems to be what happens when you use the roof a lot, no great surprise when you see what the thin nylon drip bead must do when the top is folded up, mine started straight but it doest stay that way forever.

I've looked at stiffer more durable solutions but the eternal elephant in the room is will it still allow the roof to fold? I expect Roger's trimmer understands this better than anyone and the flexible beading is a carefully selected compromise between being rigid enough to maintain a straight edge when the top is fitted yet flexible enough to allow the roof to fold.

I'm looking to replace the original nylon beading with net curtain wire, if I can feed it in it should work well as it's effectively a plastic coated spring so is extremely flexible for when the top is folded up but naturally always wants to return to it's perfectly straight form.



The problem is everything I've found so far is too thick to fed in where the original thin nylon stuff has been stitched in, if Roger's trimmer stitched in the more robust net curtain wire in the first place I think it would work way better.

The thin nylon beading used on this top certainly doesn't stay nice and straight for for very long in my experience, but to be fair mine has seen some serious summer heat in France (over 98 degrees) and I suspect this may have warped it.

[bobfather]

Mine's on and off a lot but when not in use it's normally on so perhaps my beads are better able to stay straight

[ChimpOnGas]

Being sat folded up in my boot on some super hot French days is what I believe warped mine Bob, if you look closely my warping is in the same places where the beading must bend when the roof is concertinaed up.

Net curtain wire sounds a bit of a comical choice but it's super flexible, always returns to straight and because it's a effectively a steel spring it shouldn't warp in heat like the nylon beading does.

Best of all it's way stronger and more rigid than what Roger's trimmer chose, but it will need stitching in properly by a good trimmer. I'm looking at just this when I have Dave The Trimmer stitch in my rule pockets for my sprung inner flap straitening bars.

For the time being something underneath the areas that currently bow in to force them out should work acceptably well as a temporary improvement.

Keep the ideas coming chaps

[bobfather]

ChimpOnGas said:

Net curtain wire sounds a bit of a comical choice but it's super flexible, always returns to straight and because it's a effectively a steel spring it shouldn't warp in heat like the nylon beading does.

I think it sounds perfect Dave, I do recall removing some from a bathroom during a house renovation and noticing rust inside so I would suggest you pack and seal the ends so that moisture can't get to the inner spring

[ChimpOnGas]

bobfather said:

ChimpOnGas said:

Net curtain wire sounds a bit of a comical choice but it's super flexible, always returns to straight and because it's a effectively a steel spring it shouldn't warp in heat like the nylon beading does.

I think it sounds perfect Dave, I do recall removing some from a bathroom during a house renovation and noticing rust inside so I would suggest you pack and seal the ends so that moisture can't get to the inner spring

Good point re the rusting Bob

I wonder if they do marine grade stainless net curtain wire

[bobfather]

Just arrived back from touring Derbyshire for a week and thought it time to add a positive comment about the Surrey Roof. Having suffered the worst downpour in memory with several lightening flashes per second and flash flooding. The interior of my car was totally dry.

Now for the main reason for buying a Surrey Roof

Full boot, roof on



Full boot, roof off

[Matthew Poxon]

Good to hear your improvements have paid off. Blimey you don't travel light do you!

[bobfather]

Matthew Poxon said:

Good to hear your improvements have paid off. Blimey you don't travel light do you!

We have a husky so the rear shelf is taken, everything in the boot, we just keep filling until it's full

[Bassfiendnoideawhathp]

bobfather said:

We have a husky so the rear shelf is taken

Bet that's a cracking sight to see...

Phil

[Matthew Poxon]

Husky, very cool.

Any pictures of the dog in the Tiv?

[FlipFlopGriff]

Panda at Wedgefest last year:

He sat on the rear shelf.
FFG

[bobfather]

Bassfiendnoideawhathp said:

Bet that's a cracking sight to see...

Phil

Matthew Poxon said:

Husky, very cool.

Any pictures of the dog in the Tiv?

Here she is from an earlier trip