Feedback on Vantage clutch upgrade?

[fvert]

Hi All,
Although I read this forum for a long time, this is my first post
I am the proud owner of a manual V8 Vantage (2006, meteorite grey), and previously owned 911's, Jag XKR conv., Lotus Elise, Boxsters S...
I consider Astons as the most beautiful cars in the world, but my experience is ruined by the clutch. It is very hard (stiff) and requires a lot of efforts (the car is only 47000km). The result is that I enjoy much more driving my Honda S2000.
Therefore I am considering upgrading the clutch to a twin plate clutch, but before investing this money, I would like to know whether this really transform the car and how it compares with a "regular car". I have read the different threads on that topic (yes, I used the search functionallity ), but I really need to know whether I will end up with a "soft clutch" like on my Honda (best gearbox I've tried so far) or will it still requires efforts. Will it still smell burned when reversing uphill? I would really like to enjoy more my vantage!

Thanks in advance for your input.
Fred

Edited by fvert on Thursday 25th August 08:40

[Speculatore]

Mine is/was a DB9 and I was within days of returning it to the dealers when I first bought it. I had been warned before hand that the manual clutch/gearbox on a DB9 was 'awkward' when cold but I didn't expect it to be so bad. (My wife couldn't even get the car in to 1st gear when cold).

I had the opportunity to drive a manual DB9 which had the lightweight flywheel and twin plate clutch fitted and the difference was amazing. I made the decision there and then to have them fitted which literally transformed the car.

There are a number of companies that do this modification. Bamford Rose did mine with their own design and it was money well spent.

[bogie]

The factory part clutch changed in later years. I had the OE clutch replaced last year on my 2006 car, with "standard" factory part and its so much lighter, its like a "normal" car

So you dont need to "upgrade" to any non OE part unless you have other reason to do so; the later OE clutch is just fine

[fvert]

Thank you both for your valuable replies.
It is interesting to see that the OE clutch has been so much improved. Now I guess I have to try a later vantage with an OE clutch to see if it fits my expectations... If yes then you made me save lots of money

[Jon39]

bogie said:

The factory part clutch changed in later years. I had the OE clutch replaced last year on my 2006 car, with "standard" factory part and its so much lighter, its like a "normal" car

So you dont need to "upgrade" to any non OE part unless you have other reason to do so; the later OE clutch is just fine

^^^^ Agree. This is your answer Fred.

The lighter clutch (pedal) was one of the modifications introduced with the 4.7.

With regard to your point about clutch smell when reversing. The reverse gear ratio is high. This is to help James Bond escape awkward situations. When I first drove my car, I experienced the clutch smells, but not recently. I must have developed better mechanical sympathy. Smell obviously means wear, so worth taking care.

We like to see pictures of new owners cars. Please post. Cover the registration mark if you prefer privacy.
Enjoy you car, they are wonderful in so many different ways.

[fvert]

Thanks, I'll do a presentation once my car is in order
I contacted Appleby and AHM for costs estimate for the 4.7 clutch swap. Here in Switzerland the costs are prohibitives, you can imagine...

Edited by fvert on Thursday 25th August 14:49

[danzrh]

Thinking about the same upgrade. I inquired with Appleby, it seems some Swiss dealers have installed their kit in the past. Also, I found there are huge differences in cost between the official Swiss official AM dealers.

Totally off-topic: Nice to meet another Vantage owner based in Zurich here. You should have joined our Swiss alps tour last weekend.

[fvert]

Hey Dan, let's meet sometime in Zurich. I was also in the mountains last weekend
Any recommendation for an independent garage to service an Aston around Zurich (200km around)? Whith my previous Porsches I was going to France (Alsace), where the service by the offical Porsche Zentrum was half the price than with Zurich's Porsche Zentrum...
Lucky are the people owning an Aston in UK!!!

[fvert]

So, according to AHM, the 4.7 clutch on a 4.3 is "is almost as heavy on the pedal as the 4.3".
Confusing, especially that I did not find actual testimony/feedback of people who did the swap...

[steveatesh]

fvert said:

So, according to AHM, the 4.7 clutch on a 4.3 is "is almost as heavy on the pedal as the 4.3".
Confusing, especially that I did not find actual testimony/feedback of people who did the swap...

I've got the 4.7 and the clutch is fine. However my 5ft 2" wife struggles with it, saying it is "heavy".

This is a Good Thing as it limits how often she drives it.

[BamfordMike]

If an owner has a single plate clutch and the Pedal has become very heavy due to pressure plate wear, if renewal is another std single plate clutch, the owner will feel a much lighter pedal than compared the old worn clutch just because the components are new. So renew with a 4.3L clutch or a 4.7L clutch and this is why owners report a lighter pedal. In my experience there is indeed no difference between the feel or performance of a 4.7L clutch compared to a 4.3L part - internet myth turning into incorrect gospel!

Compared to single plate, the twin plate clutch is another step on in terms of pedal lightness and with a much better window of modulation - so pull away is easier / better. It will not fry itself after multiple 'traffic light challenge' pull away where a single plate will, the twin plate clutch will perform a 3 - 1 shift at 20 mph (exiting a roundabout) where a single plate will baulk on synchro and no amount of force will select a gear..

If you don't drive car in a manner in which you will benefit the increased performance from the twin plate, buy the stock part is my advice. But on last look the stock price was approaching price that upgrade parts normally retail at, and with the continual factory annual parts price increases I have seen since 2010 (circa 5% each year), it won't be long before the upgraded parts are even cheaper than stock!!

[divetheworld]

BamfordMike said:

If an owner has a single plate clutch and the Pedal has become very heavy due to pressure plate wear, if renewal is another std single plate clutch, the owner will feel a much lighter pedal than compared the old worn clutch just because the components are new. So renew with a 4.3L clutch or a 4.7L clutch and this is why owners report a lighter pedal. In my experience there is indeed no difference between the feel or performance of a 4.7L clutch compared to a 4.3L part - internet myth turning into incorrect gospel!

Compared to single plate, the twin plate clutch is another step on in terms of pedal lightness and with a much better window of modulation - so pull away is easier / better. It will not fry itself after multiple 'traffic light challenge' pull away where a single plate will, the twin plate clutch will perform a 3 - 1 shift at 20 mph (exiting a roundabout) where a single plate will baulk on synchro and no amount of force will select a gear..

If you don't drive car in a manner in which you will benefit the increased performance from the twin plate, buy the stock part is my advice. But on last look the stock price was approaching price that upgrade parts normally retail at, and with the continual factory annual parts price increases I have seen since 2010 (circa 5% each year), it won't be long before the upgraded parts are even cheaper than stock!!

A nice post from you Mike.
One point you didn't appear to fully express in the 'value' calculation would be longevity. A twin plate will last much longer?

[_Exocet_]

I have no ownership experience but in looking for a Vantage I have tried 5 or 6 different cars, both 4.3 and 4.7, with various states of clutch wear.

I'd say that I could not tell the difference between a new 4.3 and 4.7 clutch, they both felt equally as light. In addition, a worn 4.7 clutch felt considerably heavier than a new 4.3. This is driving back to back too, so impressions were fresh.

As others have said, a new clutch of either type invariably feels a lot lighter than a worn one of the same type.

As yet, no experience reversing up hill.

[Jon39]

BamfordMike said:

In my experience there is indeed no difference between the feel or performance of a 4.7L clutch compared to a 4.3L part - internet myth turning into incorrect gospel!

Reading a little about your CV Mike, you will be a person who knows.

Have I been 'taken-in' by this extract from (perhaps) an over enthusiastic, original AML press release?

Technical Enhancements for Aston Martin V8 Vantage.
Published: May 23, 2008
Tags: Models, Corporate
Gaydon, 23 May 2008.

Aston Martin’s V8 Vantage – originally launched to widespread critical acclaim at the Geneva Motor Show in 2005 – is to receive significant technical enhancements, reaffirming the car’s position as one of the world’s most desirable and exhilarating sports cars.

Transmission

The V8 Vantage transmissions have also undergone changes to improve performance and to handle the increased levels of power and torque. Both the standard manual stick-shift gearbox and the optional Sportshift™ transmission benefit from a modified clutch and flywheel, reducing clutch pedal efforts and delivering a 0.5kg weight saving, reducing the rotating masses within the powertrain, and hence increasing engine responsiveness.

Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 27th August 12:34

[V8V Pete]

Drive a V12V (or a V8 with an upgraded twin plate clutch) and you will see how much better the twin plate clutch is in every way. The clutch is expensive to replace. The difference in cost between a single plate and a twin plate in the context of this large outlay is relatively little. Therefore, it really is a no brainer. Unless you are about to sell your car then it has to be twin plate every time.

[bogie]

The cost difference when I enquired between OE fitted and upgraded clutch AND LW flywheel was about £1k. I dont intend to keep the car for more than say another 10k miles, so not investing in upgrades

...the OE clutch is fine and nice and light compared to my original late 2005 OE clutch

[JohnG1]

One thing to note is that not all flywheels are the same, and not all twin plate clutches are the same. The degree of balance of the parts is pretty important and that is often missed in the conversation about friction material and clamping force etc.

[fvert]

So, I decided to move forward with a twin plate clutch + Flywheel upgrade I haven't decided yet which kit (Appleby or AHM) but it will be done late October (I found a place only 120km away where they can do it at a reasonable price - still 12hours of labor).
I will keep you posted of the outcome

[bogie]

What else are they doing in 12 hours ? I thought the factory time was 8 hours for a clutch, It was £500 in labour at Bridge mill when I had mine done

[BamfordMike]

Jon39 said:

Reading a little about your CV Mike, you will be a person who knows.

Have I been 'taken-in' by this extract from (perhaps) an over enthusiastic, original AML press release?

Technical Enhancements for Aston Martin V8 Vantage.
Published: May 23, 2008
Tags: Models, Corporate
Gaydon, 23 May 2008.

Aston Martin’s V8 Vantage – originally launched to widespread critical acclaim at the Geneva Motor Show in 2005 – is to receive significant technical enhancements, reaffirming the car’s position as one of the world’s most desirable and exhilarating sports cars.

Transmission

The V8 Vantage transmissions have also undergone changes to improve performance and to handle the increased levels of power and torque. Both the standard manual stick-shift gearbox and the optional Sportshift™ transmission benefit from a modified clutch and flywheel, reducing clutch pedal efforts and delivering a 0.5kg weight saving, reducing the rotating masses within the powertrain, and hence increasing engine responsiveness.



The only way to answer your question is to back-to-back drive when brand new, 2 different cars with the 2 different clutches. If you could, you would undoubtedly conclude that pedal feel and travel and the inability without frying itself to perform a 'performance' pull away is like-for-like. I certainly could detect no increase in engine responsiveness across the 2 clutches on the same engine displacement. But who am I to question press release....,

Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 27th August 12:34