Which one to buy, the Canon 5D3, 5DS R or 5D4
Discussion
Purely hypothetical question at this moment in time (tells the wife), but which one to buy, the 5D3, the 5DS R or the the new and improved Canon 5D 4.
The reason for my hypothetical question is because a friend of mine owns a 5D3 and has been uploading photos onto Flickr, which I'm honest are very impressive indeed. Now he is a much better and more experienced amateur photographer than I am, but having compared photos taken on the same day at the same event at similar angles his 5D3 pics totally crush my efforts using my RX100 M3 and 700D.
The Canon 700D which better than the RX100 but I'm wanting more from it than it can provide, birds flying tend to be out-of-focus and low light pics tend to be grainy when the shutter speed is increased to lessen the chance of motion blur.
So I'm toying with the idea of a 5D3, then noticed the 5DS R offers more for not much more money (comparatively speaking) and I like the fact that it has a 50 megapixel full frame sensor so offers considerably more scope for cropping, higher levels of detail, or mind boggling levels of bokeh as and when required. The spanner in the works is the recent release of the 5D4, but it costs a lot more money. So what do I buy? For info on pricing between models I've been using www.camerapricebuster.com
In terms of usage, is amateur, low light concert halls, portrait photos, fast moving kids inside/outside, informal wedding photos, fast moving road cars, with a few air displays occasionally thrown in.
The RX100 M3 is extremely good as a camera for all occasions to put in my pocket so I don't miss a good pic, but having used the 700D for nearly a year now now I'm getting some very nice results but I think I could do better especially in low-light conditions. I have a couple of fast prime lenses that really do allow for faster shutter speeds and lower ISO which has made me realise that full frame is the only way forward to improve on this. The Canon 135mm f/2 lens I recently acquired is truly outstanding in this respect.
So does anyone on here have experience of using the 5D3, 5DS R and the 5D4 who would care to make comment? If I'm going to spend a fair bit of money with the leap to full frame I want to get it right.
Feedback on the above much appreciated
The reason for my hypothetical question is because a friend of mine owns a 5D3 and has been uploading photos onto Flickr, which I'm honest are very impressive indeed. Now he is a much better and more experienced amateur photographer than I am, but having compared photos taken on the same day at the same event at similar angles his 5D3 pics totally crush my efforts using my RX100 M3 and 700D.
The Canon 700D which better than the RX100 but I'm wanting more from it than it can provide, birds flying tend to be out-of-focus and low light pics tend to be grainy when the shutter speed is increased to lessen the chance of motion blur.
So I'm toying with the idea of a 5D3, then noticed the 5DS R offers more for not much more money (comparatively speaking) and I like the fact that it has a 50 megapixel full frame sensor so offers considerably more scope for cropping, higher levels of detail, or mind boggling levels of bokeh as and when required. The spanner in the works is the recent release of the 5D4, but it costs a lot more money. So what do I buy? For info on pricing between models I've been using www.camerapricebuster.com
In terms of usage, is amateur, low light concert halls, portrait photos, fast moving kids inside/outside, informal wedding photos, fast moving road cars, with a few air displays occasionally thrown in.
The RX100 M3 is extremely good as a camera for all occasions to put in my pocket so I don't miss a good pic, but having used the 700D for nearly a year now now I'm getting some very nice results but I think I could do better especially in low-light conditions. I have a couple of fast prime lenses that really do allow for faster shutter speeds and lower ISO which has made me realise that full frame is the only way forward to improve on this. The Canon 135mm f/2 lens I recently acquired is truly outstanding in this respect.
So does anyone on here have experience of using the 5D3, 5DS R and the 5D4 who would care to make comment? If I'm going to spend a fair bit of money with the leap to full frame I want to get it right.
Feedback on the above much appreciated
[canon ambassador hat on] Buy them all![/canon ambassador hat off]
OK I have used the 5d3 and 5dsr and will get to play with a 5d4 next weekend.
First thing to remember is your 135 will actually be a 135 not a 200mm.
This means if you are focal length limited (cant get closer) you will end up cropping your image back to aps-c sized, and pretty much back to square one on noise in general.
You will gain an advantage in AF, all 3 cameras have much better focus, the 5d4 has the 1dxmk2 focus which is supposed to be utterly unbelievable , the others have a very competent if complex system.
Noise wise the 5dsr is the poorest. Its about a stop behind the 5d3 at 3200 and up.
Upside is you get more pixels, and can crop to aps-c at 20mp if needed.
5d4 has at least as good a high ISO as the 6d, if not a touch better. Plus much improved dynamic range, and a decent resolution. I could likely replace both my a7r and 6d with one (and planned to but spend the money on a car lol).
Also note your mate could be better at shooting/exposure (which can lead to lower noise) and much better at processing images.
Best if you can post some examples as always.
But 5D4 is the best option unless you really need those crazy high pixel files. Note 30 to 50mp is only a smallish increase in possible print size.
OK I have used the 5d3 and 5dsr and will get to play with a 5d4 next weekend.
First thing to remember is your 135 will actually be a 135 not a 200mm.
This means if you are focal length limited (cant get closer) you will end up cropping your image back to aps-c sized, and pretty much back to square one on noise in general.
You will gain an advantage in AF, all 3 cameras have much better focus, the 5d4 has the 1dxmk2 focus which is supposed to be utterly unbelievable , the others have a very competent if complex system.
Noise wise the 5dsr is the poorest. Its about a stop behind the 5d3 at 3200 and up.
Upside is you get more pixels, and can crop to aps-c at 20mp if needed.
5d4 has at least as good a high ISO as the 6d, if not a touch better. Plus much improved dynamic range, and a decent resolution. I could likely replace both my a7r and 6d with one (and planned to but spend the money on a car lol).
Also note your mate could be better at shooting/exposure (which can lead to lower noise) and much better at processing images.
Best if you can post some examples as always.
But 5D4 is the best option unless you really need those crazy high pixel files. Note 30 to 50mp is only a smallish increase in possible print size.
5DSR owner here. Very happy with it but my requirements in a camera will be different from many others. I work mostly in the studio and hardly ever at a higher ISO than 100. I wouldn't mind having a second body and awaited the Mk4 with interest, but learned about it with some disappointment.
Thanks for the info guys, it looks like the 5D3 may well be the best compromise for me. Rob it will be interesting to see what you have to say about the 5D4 after you have had a play with it.
I'm not one for needing the latest bit of kit so the 5D4 would have to be exceptionally good for me to consider buying one and it doesn't sound like it's broken any records.
The 5DS R sounds on initial reports to be perfect but if it's not so good in low-light then I don't see the need to buy one or indeed justify the additional expense. The Canon 6D is of course a cheaper full frame alternative and seems pretty good for portrait work but it seems a little bit on the slow side for photographing faster moving objects aka kids, cars, birds and aircraft. If I bought that I would no doubt be cursing myself in a few months time.
The Canon 135mm f/2 lens is well impressive, it might be getting old but it's very sharp and the bokeh is fantastic, and with it being f/2 allows for faster shutter speeds in low-light conditions which is always good. Pair that up with the FF 5D3 and the results should be excellent. Hey I sound like I'm selling it to myself
I was rather hoping the prices of the 5D3 would drop following the release of the 5D4 but it would seem that nothing has happened as yet, are people hanging back from buying the latest incarnation because it's just too damn expensive. The recent drop in the value of the £ won't of course help matters.
I'm not one for needing the latest bit of kit so the 5D4 would have to be exceptionally good for me to consider buying one and it doesn't sound like it's broken any records.
The 5DS R sounds on initial reports to be perfect but if it's not so good in low-light then I don't see the need to buy one or indeed justify the additional expense. The Canon 6D is of course a cheaper full frame alternative and seems pretty good for portrait work but it seems a little bit on the slow side for photographing faster moving objects aka kids, cars, birds and aircraft. If I bought that I would no doubt be cursing myself in a few months time.
The Canon 135mm f/2 lens is well impressive, it might be getting old but it's very sharp and the bokeh is fantastic, and with it being f/2 allows for faster shutter speeds in low-light conditions which is always good. Pair that up with the FF 5D3 and the results should be excellent. Hey I sound like I'm selling it to myself
I was rather hoping the prices of the 5D3 would drop following the release of the 5D4 but it would seem that nothing has happened as yet, are people hanging back from buying the latest incarnation because it's just too damn expensive. The recent drop in the value of the £ won't of course help matters.
Had a 5D3 for over a year and now on 5D4 I'd also say go for 5D3.
The difference between IQ and AF of 700D and 5D3 will be much much greater than the next step between 5D3 and 5D4 which will cost pretty much the same in terms of price difference between the two.
I'm still more "MEH" than "WOW" after spending £3k on Mk4. I take photos of dogs which is one of the worst targets in terms of AF and Mk3 was always a very good performer. You'll be much better spending the extra £££ on 70-200 f/2.8 IS
The difference between IQ and AF of 700D and 5D3 will be much much greater than the next step between 5D3 and 5D4 which will cost pretty much the same in terms of price difference between the two.
I'm still more "MEH" than "WOW" after spending £3k on Mk4. I take photos of dogs which is one of the worst targets in terms of AF and Mk3 was always a very good performer. You'll be much better spending the extra £££ on 70-200 f/2.8 IS
9.3 said:
Any reason you're not considering a 6d ?
As Rob has suggested, the AF is a bit slow so won't be as good for photographing fast moving objects, so although it would be fine for portrait work in a studio I think it would let me down in when trying to focus on fast moving kids, cars and aircraft. You know the old saying 'never work with children or animals', it's quite right. I tell my kids to stop moving and they carry on regardless! And try as I might, the success ratio even in bright sunlight of photographing birds in flight has been pretty poor to date even though I've experimented to death with aperture, shutter and even focus points to no avail.
So on those points I think not only do I need a camera with a full frame for those instances when I'm taking photos in low-light conditions but I also need one with razor fast focusing and as rottie102 has mentioned, the 5D3 is pretty quick in that respect. I am also led to believe that it is pretty good at higher ISO levels.
rottie102 said:
Had a 5D3 for over a year and now on 5D4 I'd also say go for 5D3.
The difference between IQ and AF of 700D and 5D3 will be much much greater than the next step between 5D3 and 5D4 which will cost pretty much the same in terms of price difference between the two.
I'm still more "MEH" than "WOW" after spending £3k on Mk4. I take photos of dogs which is one of the worst targets in terms of AF and Mk3 was always a very good performer. You'll be much better spending the extra £££ on 70-200 f/2.8 IS
Cheers rottie102 I think you have pretty much convinced me that the 5D3 is the one to go for. I have held off buying for quite some time to see what Canon pulled out of the bag but the newer 5D4 seems like an awful lot more money for not a massive level of improvements and the 5D3 has always had an excellent reputation. I'm quite surprised they have ramped up the price to this level.The difference between IQ and AF of 700D and 5D3 will be much much greater than the next step between 5D3 and 5D4 which will cost pretty much the same in terms of price difference between the two.
I'm still more "MEH" than "WOW" after spending £3k on Mk4. I take photos of dogs which is one of the worst targets in terms of AF and Mk3 was always a very good performer. You'll be much better spending the extra £££ on 70-200 f/2.8 IS
Now all I need to happen is for Canon to drop the price of the 5D4 in order to generate more sales, that in turn should bring down the price of the 5D3 to a level within my budget which I hasten to add is somewhat lacking. Have been keeping an eye on prices by viewing http://www.camerapricebuster.com/
Thank you for the recommendation about the 70-200 f2.8 IS lens and I've heard great things about it, but for now it's going to have to be added to my wish-list because it's hellish expensive at £975 for the MK1 and £1700 for the MK2 version which is currently outside of my budget range.
I'm actually well chuffed with the results I'm achieving with the Canon EF 135mm f/2L USM lens and it's relatively compact compared to the zoom lenses so doesn't leap out at folks and scare them to death, and being a prime lens is very sharp indeed even when attached to my 700D.
I also invested in a Sigma ART 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM lens, unfortunately this is only compatible for use with APS-C crop sensor cameras so I don't think it will work with the 5D3. Having said that, I will probably keep the 700D and associated lens if I did go ahead with the purchase of the 5D3 because it does perform remarkably well and could probably use it as a back-up.
RobDickinson said:
The sigma lens will (AFIK) mount and shoot on a canon FF, it will vignette probably a lot at the wide end, might work 24-35mm
Thanks Rob for your input, it seems that Sigma missed a trick there to make it fully compatible with the Canon full frame cameras as well as the crop sensors, or is it down to optics, will be interesting to see how it performs if I ever do get round to buying a 5D3. The Canon 5D3 is on my Christmas list for this year, but will santa be reading this and prioritising when the wife has other more important ideas on her mind like a bathroom makeover?
Craikeybaby said:
If birds, aircraft and cars are key subjects, wouldn't a 6D/7D combination be a better bet than one of the 5D variants?
Full frame will not be the answer to your bird photography problems, especially if you don't get new lenses too.
Interesting point ref the 7D2, I will need to do some more research because I have read that it's pretty good and is priced a good bit less at £1199 which is nearly half the price of a 5D3.Full frame will not be the answer to your bird photography problems, especially if you don't get new lenses too.
Anyone on here used both cameras, what do you think?
Thanks for the comments made, though I'm not convinced that the 7D2 would be the way forward for me because no matter how I look at it, a crop sensor is still a lot smaller than a full frame sensor so can't hope to record the same level of information under the same circumstances, as far as I can gather the full frame 5D3 offers considerable advantages in low light conditions versus crop sensors and bearing in mind I sometimes take photos in dimly lit concert halls and also indoors in low light settings I feel that the 7D2 is at a distinct disadvantage under these circumstances.
From what I have seen the levels of bokeh achievable using full frame cannot be replicated on APS-C crop sensor cameras and this is something that is very important to me because it enables photos of cars at a classic car show to be almost isolated from the rest due to the shallow depth of field blurring out everything around them even though in reality they are very close together.
I'm not really interested in high fps at this point and would trade that anytime for the advantages of a higher shutter speed and lower ISO in less than ideal lighting conditions.
In terms of lenses, yes I will need to invest in some new glass but I regard this as a long term investment, next on the shopping list may be the far more affordable Canon EF 85mm f1.8 USM lens to compliment the 135mm f/2 lens I already have. The 70-200 f2.8 IS lens is one that I ought to add to the shopping list but as I mentioned previously it is somewhat outside of my budget at this moment in time.
Would be very interesting to hear from anyone on here who owns or has owned both the 7D2 and the 5D3 to see what they think. The 7D2 sounds like a fantastic camera but I feel the 5D3 has the edge even though it is older.
From what I have seen the levels of bokeh achievable using full frame cannot be replicated on APS-C crop sensor cameras and this is something that is very important to me because it enables photos of cars at a classic car show to be almost isolated from the rest due to the shallow depth of field blurring out everything around them even though in reality they are very close together.
I'm not really interested in high fps at this point and would trade that anytime for the advantages of a higher shutter speed and lower ISO in less than ideal lighting conditions.
In terms of lenses, yes I will need to invest in some new glass but I regard this as a long term investment, next on the shopping list may be the far more affordable Canon EF 85mm f1.8 USM lens to compliment the 135mm f/2 lens I already have. The 70-200 f2.8 IS lens is one that I ought to add to the shopping list but as I mentioned previously it is somewhat outside of my budget at this moment in time.
Would be very interesting to hear from anyone on here who owns or has owned both the 7D2 and the 5D3 to see what they think. The 7D2 sounds like a fantastic camera but I feel the 5D3 has the edge even though it is older.
A full frame sensor has about 1-1.2 stops better noise (or more..) than a crop.
But that only works if you have enough optical reach (aka focal length) to avoid cropping
If you shoot that 135L on the 5d3 and have to crop to aps-c for your composition you are back to square 1 ( but with better AF).
So rather than use the 135L on a crop, use a 200/2.0 on the FF and you gain the ISO of the 5d3. Switch to a 200/2.8 and you have somewhat nullified the dof and light gathering abilities of FF... (not not all of them).
So the 135L will work great so long as you can get closer...
But that only works if you have enough optical reach (aka focal length) to avoid cropping
If you shoot that 135L on the 5d3 and have to crop to aps-c for your composition you are back to square 1 ( but with better AF).
So rather than use the 135L on a crop, use a 200/2.0 on the FF and you gain the ISO of the 5d3. Switch to a 200/2.8 and you have somewhat nullified the dof and light gathering abilities of FF... (not not all of them).
So the 135L will work great so long as you can get closer...
Rich888
6D/7Dmk2 is a great VFM combo.
6D has awesome IQ and noise is excellent at very high ISO's. The central focussing point is real accurate, and great for Supertele's when light is bad.
7dmk2 has speed and 1.6x factor which makes it great for M sport or Birds, with Supertele's, in bright day light.
Buy both for less than a 5D3/4/S/R. Quite why anyone buy's expensive bodies these days baffles me
If you want to do landscapes use your Iphone or Galaxy S6/7.
Hope this helps
6D/7Dmk2 is a great VFM combo.
6D has awesome IQ and noise is excellent at very high ISO's. The central focussing point is real accurate, and great for Supertele's when light is bad.
7dmk2 has speed and 1.6x factor which makes it great for M sport or Birds, with Supertele's, in bright day light.
Buy both for less than a 5D3/4/S/R. Quite why anyone buy's expensive bodies these days baffles me
If you want to do landscapes use your Iphone or Galaxy S6/7.
Hope this helps
S47 said:
Rich888
6D/7Dmk2 is a great VFM combo.
6D has awesome IQ and noise is excellent at very high ISO's. The central focussing point is real accurate, and great for Supertele's when light is bad.
7dmk2 has speed and 1.6x factor which makes it great for M sport or Birds, with Supertele's, in bright day light.
Buy both for less than a 5D3/4/S/R. Quite why anyone buy's expensive bodies these days baffles me
If you want to do landscapes use your Iphone or Galaxy S6/7.
Hope this helps
That was my suggestion, not buying a 7D, rather than a 5D.6D/7Dmk2 is a great VFM combo.
6D has awesome IQ and noise is excellent at very high ISO's. The central focussing point is real accurate, and great for Supertele's when light is bad.
7dmk2 has speed and 1.6x factor which makes it great for M sport or Birds, with Supertele's, in bright day light.
Buy both for less than a 5D3/4/S/R. Quite why anyone buy's expensive bodies these days baffles me
If you want to do landscapes use your Iphone or Galaxy S6/7.
Hope this helps
Yep 2 (cheaper) bodies isnt a bad approach but I often see people with a pile of cheaper gear none of which is suited to what they shoot but if swapped for less but higher priced gear would be much better,
The compromise with the 6d/7d setup is you only get part of the upsides at any one point.
AF/FPS but not high ISO, High ISO but not focus speed etc.
The compromise with the 6d/7d setup is you only get part of the upsides at any one point.
AF/FPS but not high ISO, High ISO but not focus speed etc.
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