The pope wants all your bits

[Derek Smith]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/vati...

And, just in case you thought it was a joke,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/catholi...

I've had a look at much of the bible and cannot remember any commandment that mentions not keeping ashes on a mantlepiece. I feel certain I'd remember that one. Nor firing them up into space, keeping them together or just doing stuff with them. With so much going on in the world, I'm glad the head vicar chap has a sense of priorities.

Let people deal with death of loved ones in the way they best for them.

[sidicks]

Derek Smith said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/vati...

And, just in case you thought it was a joke,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/catholi...

I've had a look at much of the bible and cannot remember any commandment that mentions not keeping ashes on a mantlepiece. I feel certain I'd remember that one. Nor firing them up into space, keeping them together or just doing stuff with them. With so much going on in the world, I'm glad the head vicar chap has a sense of priorities.

Let people deal with death of loved ones in the way they best for them.

I guess it's 'his' Church, so his rules, but it hardly seems sensible or compassionate and unlikely to attract new people into the club!

I'd be interested in understanding the logic behind the decision.

Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 25th October 21:14

[AlexC1981]

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

[sidicks]

AlexC1981 said:

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

Thanks.

To my mind scattering ashes would be more consistent with that than keeping them in an urn!

[AlexC1981]

Thou art welcome.

[sidicks]

AlexC1981 said:

Thou art welcome.

[SpeckledJim]

sidicks said:

Derek Smith said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/vati...

And, just in case you thought it was a joke,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/catholi...

I've had a look at much of the bible and cannot remember any commandment that mentions not keeping ashes on a mantlepiece. I feel certain I'd remember that one. Nor firing them up into space, keeping them together or just doing stuff with them. With so much going on in the world, I'm glad the head vicar chap has a sense of priorities.

Let people deal with death of loved ones in the way they best for them.

I guess it's 'his' Church, so his rules, but it hardly seems sensible or compassionate and unlikely to attract new people into the club!

I'd be interested in understanding the logic behind the decision.

Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 25th October 21:14

Whatever the logic is, it'll be to do with maintaining control and upping the mystique and general levels of woo.

I thought the soul was the important bit, and the earthly remains neither here nor there. Bowen is keeping us on our toes.

[anonymous-user]

The Catholic Church says lots of batst crazy things, they change their mind when it suits also, most modern Catholics go about their lives without adhering to most of the batst crazy stuff they come out with.

No Sex before marriage isn't doing so well at the moment.

Thankfully they were sensible enough to remove the ban on condom use, they have a lot of deaths on their hands in Africa because of that crazy doctrine.

[neilr]

It's almost as if it's all about control isn't it.

[numtumfutunch]

I like how he says you cant keep ashes at home other than in "grave" circumstances

Classic

[RobDickinson]

Religion in batst crazy pronouncement shocker....

[r11co]

Knowing the crazy bureaucracy and exhorbitant fees charged by municipal cemetaries in Italy for maintaining graves I suspect this almost certainly has an economic element behind it in order to protect the income of those in the death business. Cremation was becoming more popular in Italy as a significantly cheaper option.

Almost all religious doctrines throughout history have a political rationale behind them. Easiest way to motivate an ignorant populace is to literally put the fear of god into them.

[Jonesy23]

You'd almost think it was too much effort to look at the reasoning rather than leap to the usual PH snark. The story seems to have all the info in it. I'm just shocked the OP didn't include a longwinded anecdote...

Doctrine was for centuries that burial in a suitable location was the method for dealing with the dead. Principally driven by the concept of resurrection which generally requires a body; whether you think this is bks is your business but that was the idea.

Then in the 60s there was acceptance that cremation was a practical option for various reasons. But burial of what was left in a suitable location was still part of the deal.

People in general are free to do whatever they want with their dead relatives including keeping they on a bookshelf if they want (be more interesting if they did it with Aunt Flo's embalmed head though); this is a matter of a club clarifying that its rulebook defines certain things and if you don't want to follow these rules then you're free to look elsewhere instead of taking a pick and mix approach.

If you're really not bothered about some of the basic doctrine I doubt you'd be too bothered about the church not wanting to hold a service? It's not like they're seizing the body and forcing arrangements on you.

[so called]

AlexC1981 said:

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

And thou must return without delay..........or else.

[SKP555]

By far the worst sort of religious fanaticism in the world at present...

[Halmyre]

I didn't think they went in for the well-done chargrilled approach. How's that supposed to work come the day of resurrection?

[Halmyre]

AlexC1981 said:

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

Christianity's User Manual was commissioned by a Proddy - that must really annoy his holiness.

[r11co]

Jonesy23 said:

Doctrine was for centuries that burial in a suitable location was the method for dealing with the dead. Principally driven by the concept of resurrection which generally requires a body; whether you think this is bks is your business but that was the idea.

Principally driven by the motivation of resurrection, but actually done to ensure swift disposal of the body in such a way to prevent infestation and spread of disease. For peasants, digging a hole and putting the body in made more sense than using up valuable stocks of fuel.

Just like the reasons behind halal/kosher food. Halal preparation was designed to make meat last longer before it would spoil, with the intention of prolonging food stocks and preventing disease due to eating rotten meat. Kosher was all about avoiding animals that themselves were carrying high levels of bacteria. Easier though to tell the plebs that the deity wants them to do it and will punish them if they don't. Accessibility to refrigeration has rendered halal preparation redundant, as has sanitary conditions in abattoirs made kosher a lot of nonsense, but once you have told the faithful it was really 'god's will' it is very hard to go back and tell them you don't have to do it anymore for reasons thus, plus getting the faithful to continue to carry out pointless rituals or follow redundant doctrines is an obvious sign that your religion still has power over them.

[4x4Tyke]

sidicks said:

I'd be interested in understanding the logic behind the decision.

It is about control, they are losing control over peoples most fundamental drives like sex and reproduction so are trying regain control over people in other ways.

[r11co]

sidicks said:

I'd be interested in understanding the logic behind the decision.

You will never get to hear the logic behind the decision. If questioned it will be billed as an act of faith.

4x4Tyke said:

It is about control, they are losing control over peoples most fundamental drives like sex and reproduction so are trying regain control over people in other ways.

Tin-foil hat. While knowing that they have control is important to religious leaders, just about every doctrine can be tied to some practical ulterior motive, but it is easier to get people to comply 'because of god's will' than to try and get them to understand the practicalities, especially when it is something that isn't in their best interests or even contrary to them.

Graveyards in Italy are mostly run by the Catholic church and, unlike in the UK, plots are 'leased' rather than purchased outright. I have experience of this when the remains of my deceased uncle had to be moved from his own plot, on which the 50 year lease had expired, to share a plot with my grandmother which still has 20 years left to run.

This is IMO a move to preserve that income stream as cremated bodies don't need to pay rent. Nothing more and nothing less.

Edited by r11co on Wednesday 26th October 12:26