Blended trumpet base on a FI engine?

[Discopotatoes]

Is it worth it? Any benefits?. I only ask as I had to remove my shortened 45mm trumpets due to some muppet glueing them in with the mounting holes in the wrong place and wrecking every one in the process.
So I now have a choice, buy new 45mm trumpets, weld up and blend the original base or buy one of those Fancy CNC'd blended bases.

[QBee]

Call Jools after 10 tomorrow for an answer.
He makes the bases, but is decent enough to give you a straight answer, and he understands FI.
07521288875

[mk1fan]

A blended base and thermal gasket would be nice as I swap the plenum.

[Pupp]

No brainer. Anything that improves breathing NA will Improve it more FI (large overlap cams on SCers apart) - if I didn't have 45mm trumpets already, I'd have one of Jools' bases in a heartbeat

[Discopotatoes]

Pupp said:

No brainer. Anything that improves breathing NA will Improve it more FI (large overlap cams on SCers apart) - if I didn't have 45mm trumpets already, I'd have one of Jools' bases in a heartbeat

so would a plenum spacer and thermal gasket improve things further?

[Pupp]

That's going to be a contentious one but, in my view and experience, yes.

[Discopotatoes]

Pupp said:

That's going to be a contentious one but, in my view and experience, yes.

[macdeb]

Discopotatoes said:

so would a plenum spacer and thermal gasket improve things further?

Thermal gasket marginally maybe for heat soak but every bit helps.
Plenum spacer complete waste of money.

[Discopotatoes]

macdeb said:

Discopotatoes said:

so would a plenum spacer and thermal gasket improve things further?

Thermal gasket marginally maybe for heat soak but every bit helps.
Plenum spacer complete waste of money.

I had a chat with Jooles today and have decided to use my existing 45mm base and blend it and possibly get a thermal spacer from Powers to regain a small amount of runner length as well as any thermal properties it might give

[QBee]

I take it Jools gave you his best advice rather than try to sell you something pretty.....he's a decent feller.

I do like his blended billet bases......very tempted.......

[Discopotatoes]

QBee said:

I take it Jools gave you his best advice rather than try to sell you something pretty.....he's a decent feller.

I do like his blended billet bases......very tempted.......

He did, a very nice bloke too. he said he hadn't done any back to back testing against a 45mm shortened trumpet base so couldn't give advice on if any gains were to be had.
and although its very pretty its never going to be seen so can't really justify the extra cost

[eliot]

Discopotatoes said:

He did, a very nice bloke too. he said he hadn't done any back to back testing against a 45mm shortened trumpet base so couldn't give advice on if any gains were to be had.
and although its very pretty its never going to be seen so can't really justify the extra cost

I believe he has actually, as I made the original one out of nylon and clive back to back tested against act carbon trumpets on jools dyno (iirc) and it came out a few bhp down overall.
Clive demanded his money back from me and I told to take a hike as I had made no claims as to its performance - indeed I wasn't even selling them, he asked me to make one for him and i did it as a one off.

Fast forward a few years and Jools is selling what appears to be same thing but out of ally(heat soak anyone?)
So i suspect he's more interested in selling his billet ones that he copied from my original than admitting that the act trumpets are slightly better.

For the 500 engine, get rid of the oem tvr scaffold tube trumpets and fit proper flared ones such as act.

Even the 72mm plenum which i make from time to time isn't absolutely necessary unless you are making over 300bhp
http://www.mez.co.uk/ms12-new.html

Edited by eliot on Thursday 27th October 20:03

[Discopotatoes]

eliot said:

Discopotatoes said:

He did, a very nice bloke too. he said he hadn't done any back to back testing against a 45mm shortened trumpet base so couldn't give advice on if any gains were to be had.
and although its very pretty its never going to be seen so can't really justify the extra cost

I believe he has actually, as I made the original one out of nylon and clive back to back tested against act carbon trumpets on jools dyno (iirc) and it came out a few bhp down overall.
Clive demanded his money back from me and I told to take a hike as I had made no claims as to its performance - indeed I wasn't even selling them, he asked me to make one for him and i did it as a one off.

Fast forward a few years and Jools is selling what appears to be same thing but out of ally(heat soak anyone?)
So i suspect he's more interested in selling his billet ones that he copied from my original than admitting that the act trumpets are slightly better.

For the 500 engine, get rid of the oem tvr scaffold tube trumpets and fit proper flared ones such as act.

Even the 72mm plenum which i make from time to time isn't absolutely necessary unless you are making over 300bhp
http://www.mez.co.uk/ms12-new.html

Edited by eliot on Thursday 27th October 20:03

im not going to get into a he said she said debate, I'm just stating what he told me, the base originated from his attempt at making a base which incorporated 8 butterflies which he admitted didn't perform well. from that original computer drawing he had a blank base which he now sells as a blended base. and to be fair he didn't try and sell me anything

Edited by Discopotatoes on Thursday 27th October 20:27

[eliot]

Discopotatoes said:

m not going to get into a he said she said debate, I'm just stating what he told me, the base originated from his attempt at making a base which incorporated 8 butterflies which he admitted didn't perform well. from that original computer drawing he had a blank base which he now sells as a blended base. and to be fair he didn't try and sell me anything

Edited by Discopotatoes on Thursday 27th October 20:27

Fair enough.
I stand by the assertion that trumpets in one form or another is the best approach.
The oem landrover ones lack enough flare at the top and are too close to the plenum roof. You can improve things by cutting 30mm of each one though.
The oem tvr griff 500 straight bits of 44mm pipe are even worse with no flare at-all.
I have been meaning to make a die to press out trumpets for the base, but not had much success so far.

[ClassiChimi]

I once read that the plenum is used to take up some heat soak from the heads, would a thermal break restrict this or does it make little difference?

[Boosted LS1]

ClassiChimi said:

I once read that the plenum is used to take up some heat soak from the heads, would a thermal break restrict this or does it make little difference?

When you're ramming in the air under boost I doubt any of this really matters. I fitted twin removable chargecoolers into my plenum, they worked. Prior to that I had a single chargecooler mounted below the windscreen. I forgot to turn it on one day. The bangs and pops it made when the water boiled woke me up though!

[ClassiChimi]

Boosted LS1 said:

When you're ramming in the air under boost I doubt any of this really matters. I fitted twin removable chargecoolers into my plenum, they worked. Prior to that I had a single chargecooler mounted below the windscreen. I forgot to turn it on one day. The bangs and pops it made when the water boiled woke me up though!

very amusing

[Discopotatoes]

eliot said:

Discopotatoes said:

m not going to get into a he said she said debate, I'm just stating what he told me, the base originated from his attempt at making a base which incorporated 8 butterflies which he admitted didn't perform well. from that original computer drawing he had a blank base which he now sells as a blended base. and to be fair he didn't try and sell me anything

Edited by Discopotatoes on Thursday 27th October 20:27

Fair enough.
I stand by the assertion that trumpets in one form or another is the best approach.
The oem landrover ones lack enough flare at the top and are too close to the plenum roof. You can improve things by cutting 30mm of each one though.
The oem tvr griff 500 straight bits of 44mm pipe are even worse with no flare at-all.
I have been meaning to make a die to press out trumpets for the base, but not had much success so far.

I've just secured another set of 45mm spun alloy flared trumpets so I'll be back at square one next Tuesday

[Boosted LS1]

ClassiChimi said:

Boosted LS1 said:

When you're ramming in the air under boost I doubt any of this really matters. I fitted twin removable chargecoolers into my plenum, they worked. Prior to that I had a single chargecooler mounted below the windscreen. I forgot to turn it on one day. The bangs and pops it made when the water boiled woke me up though!

very amusing

I was sitting at a roundabout and for a few moments was cacking myself until I figured what was happening :-)

[macdeb]

'air speed'.
Any N/A mods help FI, the only exception it seems to me is cam choice when SC as opposed to turbo.

I'm not promoting someones services or trying to be impressive

Edited by macdeb on Friday 28th October 17:43

Edited by macdeb on Friday 28th October 17:49

Edited by macdeb on Friday 28th October 17:50