Which TVR to buy?
Discussion
General Zod said:
Depends on your priority list. For any fun/sports car, I can think of:
Acceleration - Cerbera, upgraded T car, T car
Handling - Sagaris, T350/Tamora
Looks - subjective but Sagaris, T350, Tuscan
Interior - Cerbera or T car
Noise - subjective but T car, RV8-based
Reliability - they are all reliable
Value - Cerbera
Running costs - RV8-based
Tinkering potential - all of them but RV8 for DIY major mods
I would add:
Topless: Tamora, Griffith, wedge, chimaera
Rarity: Sagaris, anything pre-Wheeler
Touring: Cerbera
Kids: Typhon, Cerbera
In order of my preference for each criterion Acceleration - Cerbera, upgraded T car, T car
Handling - Sagaris, T350/Tamora
Looks - subjective but Sagaris, T350, Tuscan
Interior - Cerbera or T car
Noise - subjective but T car, RV8-based
Reliability - they are all reliable
Value - Cerbera
Running costs - RV8-based
Tinkering potential - all of them but RV8 for DIY major mods
I would add:
Topless: Tamora, Griffith, wedge, chimaera
Rarity: Sagaris, anything pre-Wheeler
Touring: Cerbera
Kids: Typhon, Cerbera
PuffsBack said:
sparkythecat said:
... hate the roof... bloody thing.. manhandle a big, f
king numb, lump of canvas covered glassfibre into a floppy vinyl sack before wrestling it in a convoluted twisting and lowering action into the boot, trying all the time to avoid scuffing the bodywork.. when it stars raining, i have to do all that st again in reverse.. by the time you've got the roof out of the boot, out of it's bag and back on the car, you, your passenger and your luggage and shopping are all piss wet through anyway... going to slap him and piss in his pockets. The stupid tt
Tip! Don't buy a Griffith, think you have problems now! king numb, lump of canvas covered glassfibre into a floppy vinyl sack before wrestling it in a convoluted twisting and lowering action into the boot, trying all the time to avoid scuffing the bodywork.. when it stars raining, i have to do all that st again in reverse.. by the time you've got the roof out of the boot, out of it's bag and back on the car, you, your passenger and your luggage and shopping are all piss wet through anyway... going to slap him and piss in his pockets. The stupid ttLiterally a few millimetres of clearance to get the roof in the boot on the Griff - the Chimaeras have it easy.
It's not half bad compared to a Merc 107 SL - to lower that you wind all the windows down a bit, use a special spanner on two catches on the header rail, pull a lever next to the back seats to release the tension on the rear of the roof, push the rear bit of hood forwards, lift back the metal roof cover, fold the entire hood into the space under the cover, push the cover back down, pressing on both sides of the car to get it to latch, and then pull that lever again to lock it shut.
If it starts to rain, the TVR driver will be dry a lot quicker than the Merc driver, but yes, the MX5 solution would avoid a trouser storage area urea application.
bsdnazz said:
I've been using my S reg Chim 400 as a daily drive for the last 13 years and have put about 80,000 miles on it.
I use it for my daily commute to and from work - Twickenham to Colnbrook on the motorways or A and B roads depending on traffic and in September took it up to the Isle of Skye for a week.
We like the Chim for a number of reasons including looks and practicality. It looks great and has enough carrying capacity to go away for a few days. We often drive into town in the evening and traffic can be heavy but the Chim's cooling is sorted so it's fine. Coming home late at night with the top down and loud music playing makes use laugh like a couple of nutters!
Now that I've turned 50 insurance is a lot cheaper and I usually insure with one of the major companies, currently Churchill for just under £240 comp.
Good history does help as these cars to need to be cared for. I find the best way to catch problems early is to drive it daily.
We did pay a premium when we bought the car in 2003 and got it from Fernhurst. The service most years although I've also used Sportmotive a couple of times.
This is the kind of use that whatever I buy will get, so that is reassuring.I use it for my daily commute to and from work - Twickenham to Colnbrook on the motorways or A and B roads depending on traffic and in September took it up to the Isle of Skye for a week.
We like the Chim for a number of reasons including looks and practicality. It looks great and has enough carrying capacity to go away for a few days. We often drive into town in the evening and traffic can be heavy but the Chim's cooling is sorted so it's fine. Coming home late at night with the top down and loud music playing makes use laugh like a couple of nutters!
Now that I've turned 50 insurance is a lot cheaper and I usually insure with one of the major companies, currently Churchill for just under £240 comp.
Good history does help as these cars to need to be cared for. I find the best way to catch problems early is to drive it daily.
We did pay a premium when we bought the car in 2003 and got it from Fernhurst. The service most years although I've also used Sportmotive a couple of times.
Laughing like a couple of nutters - I can see me and Mrs M doing the same!
Insurance - that's an interesting one. I will need occasional business use, and this is causing problems with getting cover, apparently because I have never had a TVR before. Got some quotes from regular companies, and the premiums are very reasonable, not much more than you are paying (I am 45). However, is it not a bit risky insuring on a regular policy without an agreed value. I have heard lots of horror stories from other car clubs about very low payouts without an agreed value.
Cheers
Mark
FarmyardPants said:
General Zod said:
Depends on your priority list. For any fun/sports car, I can think of:
Acceleration - Cerbera, upgraded T car, T car
Handling - Sagaris, T350/Tamora
Looks - subjective but Sagaris, T350, Tuscan
Interior - Cerbera or T car
Noise - subjective but T car, RV8-based
Reliability - they are all reliable
Value - Cerbera
Running costs - RV8-based
Tinkering potential - all of them but RV8 for DIY major mods
I would add:
Topless: Tamora, Griffith, wedge, chimaera
Rarity: Sagaris, anything pre-Wheeler
Touring: Cerbera
Kids: Typhon, Cerbera
In order of my preference for each criterion Acceleration - Cerbera, upgraded T car, T car
Handling - Sagaris, T350/Tamora
Looks - subjective but Sagaris, T350, Tuscan
Interior - Cerbera or T car
Noise - subjective but T car, RV8-based
Reliability - they are all reliable
Value - Cerbera
Running costs - RV8-based
Tinkering potential - all of them but RV8 for DIY major mods
I would add:
Topless: Tamora, Griffith, wedge, chimaera
Rarity: Sagaris, anything pre-Wheeler
Touring: Cerbera
Kids: Typhon, Cerbera
the drivers TVR...
I've come to the conclusion that I can't really make a wrong decision, I just need to get one. Tried an S3 at the weekend, and loved it. However, there were a handful of things that I wasn't happy with on the car, so used the old advice of 'don't buy the first car you try' and had a bit of a word with myself. The search continues....
ClassiChimi said:
Which car sold the most!
The Chimaera is simply the best
^^^There's good logic in this^^^The Chimaera is simply the best
The much greater original sales volume of the Chimaera model directly translates to greater availability today, this in turn means you have a lot more choice making finding a good example a much easier task. There are always 50-60 Chimaeras in the PH classifieds at any given time and a quick search of the other usual sources will typically throw up another 10-15 cars, and more cars means more competition for the sellers which keeps prices sensible. Compare these figures with the availability of the other TVR models you're considering and you'll soon see and appreciate what I'm getting at
All TVRs were from new (and still are) a work in progress that tend to demand an element of ongoing fettling, the TVR models before the Griffith & Chimaera were left wanting in some of the key and detail design elements, models that came after the Griffith & Chimaera were quite a bit more sophisticated but were the victims of their complexity.
Throughout their history TVR always seemed struggle with wiring, the more complex post Griffith & Chimaera models (especially the Cerbera) exposed this skill deficit more than most as TVR tried to compete with the competition like Porsche who were by the 2000's building very complete and sophisticated cars with lots of toys & creature comforts. Add to this the well known fragility of TVR's own AJP6 six cylinder engine and you've got a series of models that could easily drain your wallet faster than gold digging girlfriend.
If you choose a TVR that came before the Griffith & Chimaera it will be simple in its make-up which is a good thing, but you should also expect some frustrations that run deep within it's design elements that are not that easy to correct. If you choose one of the TVR models that came after the Griffith & Chimaera you'll get a true thoroughbred engine and (in most cases) better handling but just like buying any other thoroughbred you should expect the maintenance costs that come with that. These later cars (Tuscan, Tamora, T350 ect) have shot up in price recently too, this has as much to do with their low production volumes as anything else... the rules of supply & demand take over.
So that just leaves the Griffith & Chimaera models themselves which fundamentally are the same car under the skin, again it's the higher production numbers of the Chimaera that keep prices realistic as supply & demand has driven big increases in Griffith prices recently. But if we consider the Chimaera originally sold in greater numbers mostly because it was the more practical user friendly model of the two, you can now enjoy this greater practicality for less money simply because there are more Chimaera out there.
When designing the Griffith & Chimaeras TVR took the opportunity to do away with many of the limitations and detail issues of their earlier cars, but they also had the common sense to continue with the use major components from large car makers who had proper development budgets. The wiring of these cars while still not 100% fantastic was mostly fine and was at least still quite straightforward compared with the far more complex "T" cars that came after. The use of the highly developed and proven (if rather out of date) Rover V8 gave the Griffith & Chimaera a reliable heart full of charm & character, an advantage that shouldn't be underestimated.
That's not to say the Griffith & Chimaeras were perfect, far from it, no TVR ever comes close to perfection which is both the source of frustration and pleasure fixed within the DNA of every TVR. While the wiring of the Griffith & Chimaeras still left a lot to be desired the overall lack of complexity ensures resolutions are typically straightforward to execute. This simplicity and general robustness of the mechanical components combined with the many detail improvements over earlier models ensures the Griffith & Chimaera models typically represent the most practical and trouble free entry into the TVR brand.
All TVRs can be frustrating and troublesome to own, so choosing the model that potentially offers the least trouble greatly improves your chances of having a better first TVR experience, choose a Chimaera and you also have a lot more choice which as I've already pointed out keeps their prices reasonable and makes finding a good one so much easier. Keep in mind when you're looking at Chimmaera it's going to be be almost 20 years old (perhaps more), that's an old car by anyone's take and remember it's still a TVR so you need to accept there will always be some little niggles and elements that need fettling.
But if you are looking for a TVR model where there's plenty of choice, that's still available at a realistic price and one that sits nicely between the earlier somewhat compromised models and the way more complex and expensive to maintain later models you're really left with the choice on one - a Chimaera! Buy carefully, end up with a good Chimaera, and if you maintain it properly it'll be a joy to own and a surprisingly practical classic British sports car.
I say classic British sports car because that's what a Chimaera is, it is not really a competitor to the contemporary Porsche models from the 90's or something like a Honda S200 or BMW Z4. If you view and enjoy your Chimaera as a 1960's British sports car that's had all the negatives these cars exhibit removed you'll be on the right track, a Chimaera was always an improved classic and a left field purchase in the 1990's, it remains exactly that today. Finally you should know while it is the most sensible of all TVR models a Chimaera is still by no means a sensible purchase, like all TVRs it'll demand you fettle it and tease you with many elements that could be better. If you fall in love with it's charms and charismatic personality you will almost invariably start spending money on it to make it a little better in lots of different ways.
For example I could have left my Chimaera completely standard and enjoyed it for what is was, instead I felt compelled to enhance it in the following ways which has made it an infinitely better car in every respect.
- Full engine management system upgrade (big improvement in drivability ect)
- A resolution to the thirsty fuel economy by making the car dual fuel (petrol & LPG) so now delivers the petrol cost equivalent of 45mpg average fuel economy with no loss in performance or drivability
- Suspension upgrade using the latest Bilstein kit from the former TVR chassis & suspension engineer
- Brake upgrade to Brembo four piston callipers and bigger discs (now stops like the later TVR "T" models)
- The purchase of a folding Surrey top (much easier roof stowage)
- The removal of the restrictive catalytic converters (frees up engine performance & the V8 sound track)
- Resolved the alarm & immobiliser issues (poorly wired by TVR)
- Improved starting by uprating the starter circuit wiring (TVR could have done better here too)
- Upgraded the headlights in keeping with the car's performance (much needed)
- Remote boot release (solves TVR's stupid boot switch that only works with the ignition on)
- Gearbox linkage improvements (not essential but makes the shift even nicer)
- Hundreds of other little detail improvements I don't have space to list
While I genuinely feel it's now a significantly better car than it ever was when it left the TVR factory in 1996, make no mistake my Chimaera (like all TVRs) remains a work progress, the car is in a constant state of development and improvement which I doubt will ever end but delivers great pleasure and satisfaction with every carefully considered upgrade I implement, this is the essence of TVR ownership and for me is intrinsically bound up in the whole TVR ownership experience.
I hope all that helps you get your head around what owning a TVR is all about, and also helps you choose the easiest model to own and live with. TVRs are a challenging breed if you're not the kind of guy who's happy to work on the car yourself, but if you like to fettle & tinker you'll form a bond with your TVR few cars at a similar price could ever hope to match.
Good luck with your search
PuffsBack said:
sparkythecat said:
I've had my Chimaera for almost 15 years and still enjoy it. The only thing that I dislike about it is the roof. In fact, I hate the roof.
Would that I could release 2 handles on the header rail and throw it easily back over my head like the MX5 driver, or press a button and have it stowed automatically like most other modern convertibles. But oh no! I have to get out of the bloody thing, release tensioned struts and velcro, empty all my luggage and shopping out of the boot and then manhandle a big, fking numb, lump of canvas covered glassfibre into a floppy vinyl sack before wrestling it in a convoluted twisting and lowering action into the boot, trying all the time to avoid scuffing the bodywork, before e, replacing the luggage and shutting the boot lid. Then I have to carefully fold down the rear roof section so i can see over it through the rear view mirror, taking special care not to crease the flimsy plastic rear window too much, before i can eventually get back in the drivers seat and continue on my journey.
Then, a half hour later, when it stars raining, i have to do all that st again in reverse, this time taking special care to ensure the roof section is dead centered otherwise either you or your passenger are liable to be deafened by wind noise, dripped on or both. The drip is in any event academic, because by the time you've got the roof out of the boot, out of it's bag and back on the car, you, your passenger and your luggage and shopping are all piss wet through anyway.
If ever I should meet the numpty who designed this roof, I'm going to slap him and piss in his pockets. The stupid tt
Tip! Don't buy a Griffith, think you have problems now! Would that I could release 2 handles on the header rail and throw it easily back over my head like the MX5 driver, or press a button and have it stowed automatically like most other modern convertibles. But oh no! I have to get out of the bloody thing, release tensioned struts and velcro, empty all my luggage and shopping out of the boot and then manhandle a big, f
king numb, lump of canvas covered glassfibre into a floppy vinyl sack before wrestling it in a convoluted twisting and lowering action into the boot, trying all the time to avoid scuffing the bodywork, before e, replacing the luggage and shutting the boot lid. Then I have to carefully fold down the rear roof section so i can see over it through the rear view mirror, taking special care not to crease the flimsy plastic rear window too much, before i can eventually get back in the drivers seat and continue on my journey.Then, a half hour later, when it stars raining, i have to do all that s
t again in reverse, this time taking special care to ensure the roof section is dead centered otherwise either you or your passenger are liable to be deafened by wind noise, dripped on or both. The drip is in any event academic, because by the time you've got the roof out of the boot, out of it's bag and back on the car, you, your passenger and your luggage and shopping are all piss wet through anyway.If ever I should meet the numpty who designed this roof, I'm going to slap him and piss in his pockets. The stupid t
tHad the boot done with matching carpet only to find that there was no way the roof would now go in.
Discovered this the day before the drive down to spain.
Ended up ripping out the top piece of carpet. What a mess.
Still to be tidied up.
Caught the paintwork while in Spain.
Then damaged the newly covered roof when the boot catch gouged the material when shutting the boot.
So yes, agree with the don't like the roof design.
But happy to say I've got my Cerbera for top up days.
Love the 400SE but I think I would be pushing my luck with Mrs SoCalled with that request.
ChimpOnGas said:
Add to this the well known fragility of TVR's own AJP6 six cylinder engine and you've got a series of models that could easily drain your wallet faster than gold digging girlfriend.
Oh I dunno about that. My Cerb Speed6 was extremely reliable. Overall I made about 3k in 3 years even with fuel taken into account. As for my Sag, well it has cost me about 2k all in so far over the last 2 years, but seems to have appreciated by about 10k so not exactly wallet draining!PuffsBack said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Add to this the well known fragility of TVR's own AJP6 six cylinder engine and you've got a series of models that could easily drain your wallet faster than gold digging girlfriend.
Oh I dunno about that. My Cerb Speed6 was extremely reliable. Overall I made about 3k in 3 years even with fuel taken into account. As for my Sag, well it has cost me about 2k all in so far over the last 2 years, but seems to have appreciated by about 10k so not exactly wallet draining!so called said:
PuffsBack said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Add to this the well known fragility of TVR's own AJP6 six cylinder engine and you've got a series of models that could easily drain your wallet faster than gold digging girlfriend.
Oh I dunno about that. My Cerb Speed6 was extremely reliable. Overall I made about 3k in 3 years even with fuel taken into account. As for my Sag, well it has cost me about 2k all in so far over the last 2 years, but seems to have appreciated by about 10k so not exactly wallet draining!
ChilliWhizz said:
so called said:
PuffsBack said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Add to this the well known fragility of TVR's own AJP6 six cylinder engine and you've got a series of models that could easily drain your wallet faster than gold digging girlfriend.
Oh I dunno about that. My Cerb Speed6 was extremely reliable. Overall I made about 3k in 3 years even with fuel taken into account. As for my Sag, well it has cost me about 2k all in so far over the last 2 years, but seems to have appreciated by about 10k so not exactly wallet draining!I should have explained this to the OP who after all is looking for facts based on broad cross section of thousand of engines built, I should have know a flood of two lucky guys would pop up to prove the whole AJP6 reliability thing was actually a conspiracy theory all along
Few, I'm glad we got that one cleared up
I don't know if it can help
Had a 2500M from 1972, a Cerbera 4.5 from 2001 and now own a T350 RR
On small roads, good weather... 2500M ! Funny to drive, great sound, and especially at lower speeds !
Between the two "moderns"... Any doubt : T350
Why : easier, smaller, more reactive, funnier, and what a sound compared to the AJP...
And mine is even faster than my previous cerbera (4.0s) as it is a lightweight version (1058kg with 20 liters of fuel) afaik
Family trip ? Cerbera with children only before 5 yo !
(No, the cerbera is a great car, and i miss it !)
Had a 2500M from 1972, a Cerbera 4.5 from 2001 and now own a T350 RR
On small roads, good weather... 2500M ! Funny to drive, great sound, and especially at lower speeds !
Between the two "moderns"... Any doubt : T350
Why : easier, smaller, more reactive, funnier, and what a sound compared to the AJP...
And mine is even faster than my previous cerbera (4.0s) as it is a lightweight version (1058kg with 20 liters of fuel) afaik
Family trip ? Cerbera with children only before 5 yo !
(No, the cerbera is a great car, and i miss it !)
jaydom said:
I don't know if it can help
Had a 2500M from 1972, a Cerbera 4.5 from 2001 and now own a T350 RR
On small roads, good weather... 2500M ! Funny to drive, great sound, and especially at lower speeds !
Between the two "moderns"... Any doubt : T350
Why : easier, smaller, more reactive, funnier, and what a sound compared to the AJP...
And mine is even faster than my previous cerbera (4.0s) as it is a lightweight version (1058kg with 20 liters of fuel) afaik
Family trip ? Cerbera with children only before 5 yo !
(No, the cerbera is a great car, and i miss it !)
Respect Had a 2500M from 1972, a Cerbera 4.5 from 2001 and now own a T350 RR
On small roads, good weather... 2500M ! Funny to drive, great sound, and especially at lower speeds !
Between the two "moderns"... Any doubt : T350
Why : easier, smaller, more reactive, funnier, and what a sound compared to the AJP...
And mine is even faster than my previous cerbera (4.0s) as it is a lightweight version (1058kg with 20 liters of fuel) afaik
Family trip ? Cerbera with children only before 5 yo !
(No, the cerbera is a great car, and i miss it !)
PuffsBack said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Add to this the well known fragility of TVR's own AJP6 six cylinder engine and you've got a series of models that could easily drain your wallet faster than gold digging girlfriend.
Oh I dunno about that. My Cerb Speed6 was extremely reliable. Overall I made about 3k in 3 years even with fuel taken into account. As for my Sag, well it has cost me about 2k all in so far over the last 2 years, but seems to have appreciated by about 10k so not exactly wallet draining!Englishman said:
PuffsBack said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Add to this the well known fragility of TVR's own AJP6 six cylinder engine and you've got a series of models that could easily drain your wallet faster than gold digging girlfriend.
Oh I dunno about that. My Cerb Speed6 was extremely reliable. Overall I made about 3k in 3 years even with fuel taken into account. As for my Sag, well it has cost me about 2k all in so far over the last 2 years, but seems to have appreciated by about 10k so not exactly wallet draining!
ChimpOnGas said:
Englishman said:
PuffsBack said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Add to this the well known fragility of TVR's own AJP6 six cylinder engine and you've got a series of models that could easily drain your wallet faster than gold digging girlfriend.
Oh I dunno about that. My Cerb Speed6 was extremely reliable. Overall I made about 3k in 3 years even with fuel taken into account. As for my Sag, well it has cost me about 2k all in so far over the last 2 years, but seems to have appreciated by about 10k so not exactly wallet draining!Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff