Cloning Sagaris Gone Awry

[Slow M]

I would think that it would be in TVR's best interest, to sue for copyright infringement. Certainly, they must own the intellectual property of the previously established models, purchased along with trade names, etc.


Am I mistaken? Do any of you think that the flattery of copying would benefit the TVR brand, as it did with various others, most notably the AC Cobra?

Best regards,
Bernard.

[alex_gray255]

That project has been running for at least 2 years, been various threads on it now.

Not to my taste personally, but I've seen worse. At least it is a reasonably well done copy.

[shep1001]

Last I read on this he had finished it and was selling the kits. Widow Sports cars I think was his company.

[alex_gray255]

Yup, finished earlier this year or late last one. Wasn't following it too closely

[Ahbefive]

The finished car on his website does look really good imo. It doesn't really mimic a sagaris too much and looks a million time better than an mx5.

[andy43]

That's as near to a Sagaris as the Griff replica I knocked up. Handled terribly anyway - pic is after a nasty off near the shed.
It's close but it's not right / Roy Walker

[Slow M]

andy43 said:

That's as near to a Sagaris as the Griff replica I knocked up. Handled terribly anyway - pic is after a nasty off near the shed.
It's close but it's not right / Roy Walker

Perfect for those drunk driving adventures. You can take one passenger, exactly as per the original. I'd consider roll over protection, though.

Best regards,
Bernard.

[Bassfiendnoideawhathp]

Slow M said:

andy43 said:

That's as near to a Sagaris as the Griff replica I knocked up. Handled terribly anyway - pic is after a nasty off near the shed.
It's close but it's not right / Roy Walker

Perfect for those drunk driving adventures. You can take one passenger, exactly as per the original. I'd consider roll over protection, though.

Best regards,
Bernard.

...as is always the case - drunken rolls without protection are always a risk!

Phil

[wayneb1408]

Bernard thanks for sharing this on hear seems everytime i post anything to do with my car it gets removed from this site. As per previous discussions we have had i am in no way bothered what TVR thinks of my kit car. The car is in no way a replica of any TVR model and has never been aimed at being a copy of one. The Blackwell SPR1 is simply a rebody kit for an MX5 mk1 that i designed. Yes it carries some styling from other vehicles but is generally my own design now and a stand alone look that is new to the kit car industry.

[Slow M]

wayneb1408 said:

Bernard thanks for sharing this on hear seems everytime i post anything to do with my car it gets removed from this site. As per previous discussions we have had i am in no way bothered what TVR thinks of my kit car. The car is in no way a replica of any TVR model and has never been aimed at being a copy of one. The Blackwell SPR1 is simply a rebody kit for an MX5 mk1 that i designed. Yes it carries some styling from other vehicles but is generally my own design now and a stand alone look that is new to the kit car industry.

While I agree that anyone with a keen eye can see the difference in a heartbeat, the same holds true for the similarities. I think that those less well heeled could be forgiven, for mistaking your car for a TVR.

Mostly, I'm still interested in hearing what others think about it being a benefit, or a liability to TVR's brand identity.

Happy Christmas,
Bernard.

P.S. Were you posting in the kit cars section?

[Skyedriver]

Looks a great bit of kit, don't listen to those what cannot do what you are doing

[Fastpedeller]

Slow M said:

I would think that it would be in TVR's best interest, to sue for copyright infringement. Certainly, they must own the intellectual property of the previously established models, purchased along with trade names, etc.


Am I mistaken? Do any of you think that the flattery of copying would benefit the TVR brand, as it did with various others, most notably the AC Cobra?

Best regards,
Bernard.

On the question of legal action, surely you aren't being serious? Most car manufacturers would be suing all the time as they all look so similar.

[DAKOTAstorm]

I'd quite like to see one fully finished, painted up and all trim. If it's based on the early mx5 plenty of them kicking about for cheap, would make a great entry level, relatively cheap but good experience one make race series.

I wouldn't say it was detrimental to the TVR mark, it would certainly keep the sag moulds in circulation. Possibly gain more interest as people would enquire regards the kit and the explanation would have to include the sagaris, then I'd say one search for a Sagaris online will lead you to explore the cars further and then we may have more enthusiasts and owners.

Need to keep our cars alive and that requires generations of interest, someone once said all publicity is good publicity.

Edited by DAKOTAstorm on Sunday 25th December 18:08

[Slow M]

Fastpedeller said:

Slow M said:

I would think that it would be in TVR's best interest, to sue for copyright infringement. Certainly, they must own the intellectual property of the previously established models, purchased along with trade names, etc.


Am I mistaken? Do any of you think that the flattery of copying would benefit the TVR brand, as it did with various others, most notably the AC Cobra?

Best regards,
Bernard.

On the question of legal action, surely you aren't being serious? Most car manufacturers would be suing all the time as they all look so similar.

I am being serious, and stop calling me Shirley. I imagine you're not aware of what has happened in the component car industry.

Best regards,
Bernard.

[Fastpedeller]

Slow M said:

am being serious, and stop calling me Shirley. I imagine you're not aware of what has happened in the component car industry.

Best regards,
Bernard.

If you are referring to the legals between C and W, I am very much aware.
Happy Christmas

[G1ABB]

http://widowsportscars.com/

Someone might benefit from a more effective website.

[DonkeyApple]

wayneb1408 said:

Bernard thanks for sharing this on hear seems everytime i post anything to do with my car it gets removed from this site. As per previous discussions we have had i am in no way bothered what TVR thinks of my kit car. The car is in no way a replica of any TVR model and has never been aimed at being a copy of one. The Blackwell SPR1 is simply a rebody kit for an MX5 mk1 that i designed. Yes it carries some styling from other vehicles but is generally my own design now and a stand alone look that is new to the kit car industry.

Wayne, I really don't think anyone minds and I'm sure the vast majority wish you well with the project but that post above is just there for legal purposes and as such it's better to say nothing. I certainly recall all the posts in the past about how the intent was to mimmick the Sagaris.

Out of interest, why the split names of two websites one for us only and why the dissolved U.K. business? Just being nosey/curious.

[wayneb1408]

DonkeyApple said:

Wayne, I really don't think anyone minds and I'm sure the vast majority wish you well with the project but that post above is just there for legal purposes and as such it's better to say nothing. I certainly recall all the posts in the past about how the intent was to mimmick the Sagaris.

Out of interest, why the split names of two websites one for us only and why the dissolved U.K. business? Just being nosey/curious.

I understand, just gets frustrating when you get certain people saying its a clone, they must have glasses thicker than than an aquarium wall. You can clearly see its no replica and in no way proportioned the same. Infact there is no single panel the same as a sagaris anymore nor anything that could be interchangeable with a sagaris.

The .com for widowsportscars is not our website it was when we were in early stages and a friend in the states offered to get us some interest which has actually led to a sale which is now being assembled in florida and hopefully one of many. Widow Sports Cars was dissolved purely because it started as a hobby which turned into a business and then i felt the need for a brand that would fit with all. The name i always felt could put people off and so i went with my own name and rebranded and Blackwell Sports Cars. We are also working on another vehicle, sort of a cross between this one and a dodge viper. The new car is chassis based and uses an RX8 as a donor car except the thengine and transmission it uses a lexus V8 and BMW box. We also added door handles into the car design, another thing that seemed to come up with potential clients about simplicity. So it now uses the Fiat Grande Punto handles. Thea rear of the car has also been changed and it now uses and audi TT rear screen with an inner frame that acts as an actual boot lid. This also uses mx5 mk3 boot hinges as they are small gas driven items. The front has also undergone a slight change in shape with the front spoiler and there is the possibility we will be adding headlamps in the near future. We have been looking at option from various cars such as the peugeot 206.

[Andrew Gray]

wayneb1408 said:

I understand, just gets frustrating when you get certain people saying its a clone, they must have glasses thicker than than an aquarium wall. You can clearly see its no replica and in no way proportioned the same. Infact there is no single panel the same as a sagaris anymore nor anything that could be interchangeable with a sagaris.

The .com for widowsportscars is not our website it was when we were in early stages and a friend in the states offered to get us some interest which has actually led to a sale which is now being assembled in florida and hopefully one of many. Widow Sports Cars was dissolved purely because it started as a hobby which turned into a business and then i felt the need for a brand that would fit with all. The name i always felt could put people off and so i went with my own name and rebranded and Blackwell Sports Cars. We are also working on another vehicle, sort of a cross between this one and a dodge viper. The new car is chassis based and uses an RX8 as a donor car except the thengine and transmission it uses a lexus V8 and BMW box. We also added door handles into the car design, another thing that seemed to come up with potential clients about simplicity. So it now uses the Fiat Grande Punto handles. Thea rear of the car has also been changed and it now uses and audi TT rear screen with an inner frame that acts as an actual boot lid. This also uses mx5 mk3 boot hinges as they are small gas driven items. The front has also undergone a slight change in shape with the front spoiler and there is the possibility we will be adding headlamps in the near future. We have been looking at option from various cars such as the peugeot 206.

As they say Wayne there is a Bum for every seat and some want something different which is what you are catering for its always nice to see a hobby turn into a Business well done nothing beats doing what what you love doing and getting paid as well
Andrew

[brownspeed]

is that how you get the fuel in?
PS; I expect some people prefer the front on this to the new Griffith too!!………..