New generation drivers destroying TVR's?
Discussion
bobfather said:
Yes wet roads with FWD trained and novice drivers will kill TVR's. One greatly misunderstood contributor is down shifting without understanding the danger of rear wheel grip loss. When shifting down without matching engine speed the combination or RWD, wet roads and light rear end serve to brake the rear wheels resulting in irretrievable loss of directional control
Agreed, I nearly got caught out by this a few years ago in my first Cerb, aged 21. My TVRs have taught me more about driving than I could ever have imagined, and touchwood I have come out of the other side crash and injury free. m4tti said:
Get a grip of your self. It far departed from a modern car that's why these events happen in the winter. Your chassis is rotting out from under your arse. Feel free to live in cloud cuckoo land but these cars were originally the equivalent of 50 - 80k and weren't typically used as daily driver. But any way keep flying the flag of bizarro.
Remember your vw value may be going down but driving your tvr year round probably won't help
It's value. I've restored one and have a ramp.. Ive seen the result after just one damp winter trip it's not a modern car covered in under seal, but keep kidding yourself.
The other point I question here is any driver under the age of thirty will be largely unfamiliar with cars with no driver aids, especially ones doing about 300bhp/per ton. Im guessing your not under 30...i'd go on but your arguement is all of a sudden looking ridiculous.
I appreciate the opinions of the old guard but your driving experience and behaviour are now out of touch with the reality of these cars. Let's all move on, preserve th and help drivers of younger years enjoy them.
I'm with Matt, I do not enjoy mine in wet winters weather and one day it will bite your bottom. Remember your vw value may be going down but driving your tvr year round probably won't help
It's value. I've restored one and have a ramp.. Ive seen the result after just one damp winter trip it's not a modern car covered in under seal, but keep kidding yourself.
The other point I question here is any driver under the age of thirty will be largely unfamiliar with cars with no driver aids, especially ones doing about 300bhp/per ton. Im guessing your not under 30...i'd go on but your arguement is all of a sudden looking ridiculous.
I appreciate the opinions of the old guard but your driving experience and behaviour are now out of touch with the reality of these cars. Let's all move on, preserve th and help drivers of younger years enjoy them.
Edited by m4tti on Saturday 18th February 23:49
With the mild winters of late the car only sits for it 8-12 weeks of the year which give me a chance to do all those small jobs.
Each to there own, I'm risk adverse and don't want to kill my much loved Tuscan so winter driving to me is a pointless excersise
The point is quite simple really ......................................... most younger drivers have been taught poorly how to drive in FWD only for the most part. The concept of changing down is not covered and they stupid mantras like " brakes are for slowign gears are for going" and we know that braking into a bend in a RWD car is asking for trouble. Older drivers were told to brake before the bend and drive gently through the bend.
Also young drivers expect the cars computer to compensate for their lack of skills with ABs, traction control etc. It's known as "Risk Compensation" the cars has these aids so I can push it harder !!!!!!!!!
Of course then we come down to the old chestnut .......................................... piss poor choice of tyres! Simply put your fancy warm weather (Summer) performance tyres don't work in the cold and damp. on a bland euro box you can get away with it but soem cars tyres become critial choice for instance although it has a fraction of the power of a TVR the MGF and MGTF become down right scary and even dangerous with the wrong tyres fitted which is why many new drivers to them end up backwards in the hedge of ditch. The suspension was setup for a certain type of tyre and what suits the MGF very well does not suit the MGTF so well due to suspension changes.
Also young drivers expect the cars computer to compensate for their lack of skills with ABs, traction control etc. It's known as "Risk Compensation" the cars has these aids so I can push it harder !!!!!!!!!
Of course then we come down to the old chestnut .......................................... piss poor choice of tyres! Simply put your fancy warm weather (Summer) performance tyres don't work in the cold and damp. on a bland euro box you can get away with it but soem cars tyres become critial choice for instance although it has a fraction of the power of a TVR the MGF and MGTF become down right scary and even dangerous with the wrong tyres fitted which is why many new drivers to them end up backwards in the hedge of ditch. The suspension was setup for a certain type of tyre and what suits the MGF very well does not suit the MGTF so well due to suspension changes.
A friend of mine who was used to driving FWD GTIs bought a TVR and stuck it in a hedge within a week. But that was twenty years ago, so I'm not sure this only applies to the younger generation, although no doubt the driver aids issue exacerbates the problem.
I'm not sure whether it was directly related, but shortly after the hedge incident my friend started doing TVR track days. Perhaps that is something the new generation would also benefit from doing.
My first car was a V6 Capri, ideal training for a TVR!
I'm not sure whether it was directly related, but shortly after the hedge incident my friend started doing TVR track days. Perhaps that is something the new generation would also benefit from doing.
My first car was a V6 Capri, ideal training for a TVR!
There is no reason a new generation can't enjoy these cars, if they train themselves correctly. Modern cars are too easy to drive and have been developed to the point that they flatter even unskilled drivers. The reward from driving a TVR is that when you drive it right you know it's you not the car compensating for your mistakes.
My first car was a rear wheel drive ford, and I invested time and money on driving skills courses with police trainers, skid pans and track work. If someone who learnt in a fiesta jumps into a TVR things are likely to go badly wrong. I also realise I'm not a driving god, so stay within my limits not the cars( which are always greater)
That said, I tax and insure my cars for all year use, but I see no fun on a modern busy road of driving a TVR in potential rain or ice, I just look for those nice bright days that come every winter to give them a chance to stretch their legs. I've had both my TVRs break traction in even the most sedate speeds ( greasy roundabouts or slip roads) so the training is absolutely necessary.
My first car was a rear wheel drive ford, and I invested time and money on driving skills courses with police trainers, skid pans and track work. If someone who learnt in a fiesta jumps into a TVR things are likely to go badly wrong. I also realise I'm not a driving god, so stay within my limits not the cars( which are always greater)
That said, I tax and insure my cars for all year use, but I see no fun on a modern busy road of driving a TVR in potential rain or ice, I just look for those nice bright days that come every winter to give them a chance to stretch their legs. I've had both my TVRs break traction in even the most sedate speeds ( greasy roundabouts or slip roads) so the training is absolutely necessary.
5.0ltr said:
It's a car
It's a mechanical thing that appreciates being used
My VW is parked outside it's value goes down my TVR goes up whatever use I do with it.
I bought it to be used. I use it for 12 months of the year
I enjoy driving in all weathers.
My cars chassis is original
I drive to the conditions
Long live the Griff as some say!
Simple post and to the point, I use mine all year round too.. It's a mechanical thing that appreciates being used
My VW is parked outside it's value goes down my TVR goes up whatever use I do with it.
I bought it to be used. I use it for 12 months of the year
I enjoy driving in all weathers.
My cars chassis is original
I drive to the conditions
Long live the Griff as some say!
The reply it got included...
m4tti said:
Get a grip of your self.
Feel free to live in cloud cuckoo land
But any way keep flying the flag of bizarro.
but keep kidding yourself.
i'd go on but your arguement is all of a sudden looking ridiculous.
your driving experience and behaviour are now out of touch with the reality of these cars.
Really??? Feel free to live in cloud cuckoo land
But any way keep flying the flag of bizarro.
but keep kidding yourself.
i'd go on but your arguement is all of a sudden looking ridiculous.
your driving experience and behaviour are now out of touch with the reality of these cars.
Really.. although poorly worded, probably due to a few vodkas during my weekend carb up. Nice edit though.
What I was alluding to was older more experienced drivers will be able to handle the cars better in winter. It will be alien to most under 30 years of age that have grown up with more recent cars.
The rest stands though... it trashes the car. I'm glad you use yours all year it'll make my tidy rust free chassis car easier to sell.
Maybe we should have some badges made up with the slogan "I drive mine all year".
What I was alluding to was older more experienced drivers will be able to handle the cars better in winter. It will be alien to most under 30 years of age that have grown up with more recent cars.
The rest stands though... it trashes the car. I'm glad you use yours all year it'll make my tidy rust free chassis car easier to sell.
Maybe we should have some badges made up with the slogan "I drive mine all year".
Edited by m4tti on Sunday 19th February 15:26
Edited by m4tti on Sunday 19th February 15:39
m4tti said:
I'm glad you use yours all year it'll make my tidy rust free chassis car easier to sell.
Makes no difference to me, I'm not selling.... 
m4tti said:
Maybe we should have some badges made up with the slogan "I drive mine all year".
m4tti said:
Really.. although poorly worded, probably due to a few vodkas during my weekend carb up. Nice edit though.
What I was alluding to was older more experienced drivers will be able to handle the cars better in winter. It will be alien to most under 30 years of age that have grown up with more recent cars.
The rest stands though... it trashes the car. I'm glad you use yours all year it'll make my tidy rust free chassis car easier to sell.
Maybe we should have some badges made up with the slogan "I drive mine all year".
Galvanised chassis is the way forward then.What I was alluding to was older more experienced drivers will be able to handle the cars better in winter. It will be alien to most under 30 years of age that have grown up with more recent cars.
The rest stands though... it trashes the car. I'm glad you use yours all year it'll make my tidy rust free chassis car easier to sell.
Maybe we should have some badges made up with the slogan "I drive mine all year".
Edited by m4tti on Sunday 19th February 15:26
Edited by m4tti on Sunday 19th February 15:39
m4tti said:
Discopotatoes said:
Galvanised chassis is the way forward then.
Could well be, is that the way you've gone. If I do a body lift I'd be very tempted by that. my thread here...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Discopotatoes on Sunday 19th February 20:26
CanoeSniffer said:
Can I just say that the assumption 'older = more experienced' is way off the mark...
True but if your late 30's plus, your first car probably didn't have ABS and definitely didn't have traction control. But granted there's plenty of crap drivers of experience out there I'm 26 - first TVR is my Tamora with a 4ltr Tuscan engine
They are definitely not easy cars to drive - fortunately I've had a number of fast, rwd cars with no TC or ABS so I've gone though the natural learning process to feel comfortable driving my car at speed
That said, I wouldn't trust any of my friends (porsches, AMGs, M cars) to drive my tvr - they aren't smooth enough drivers and don't know how to interpret what an analogue car would tell them. This is because they haven't had to: in short, I agree that younger drivers have become to accustomed to driver aids but we can't stop them buying TVRs
Perhaps there should be a greater focus on upskilling young drivers rather than saying 'you lot are worse than us'
They are definitely not easy cars to drive - fortunately I've had a number of fast, rwd cars with no TC or ABS so I've gone though the natural learning process to feel comfortable driving my car at speed
That said, I wouldn't trust any of my friends (porsches, AMGs, M cars) to drive my tvr - they aren't smooth enough drivers and don't know how to interpret what an analogue car would tell them. This is because they haven't had to: in short, I agree that younger drivers have become to accustomed to driver aids but we can't stop them buying TVRs
Perhaps there should be a greater focus on upskilling young drivers rather than saying 'you lot are worse than us'
olliete said:
I'm 26 - first TVR is my Tamora with a 4ltr Tuscan engine
They are definitely not easy cars to drive - fortunately I've had a number of fast, rwd cars with no TC or ABS so I've gone though the natural learning process to feel comfortable driving my car at speed
That said, I wouldn't trust any of my friends (porsches, AMGs, M cars) to drive my tvr - they aren't smooth enough drivers and don't know how to interpret what an analogue car would tell them. This is because they haven't had to: in short, I agree that younger drivers have become to accustomed to driver aids but we can't stop them buying TVRs
Perhaps there should be a greater focus on upskilling young drivers rather than saying 'you lot are worse than us'
There was a series of advanced driver instruction In Sprint in the middle 00s. It generated a lot of interest and comment, much more than I expected. They are definitely not easy cars to drive - fortunately I've had a number of fast, rwd cars with no TC or ABS so I've gone though the natural learning process to feel comfortable driving my car at speed
That said, I wouldn't trust any of my friends (porsches, AMGs, M cars) to drive my tvr - they aren't smooth enough drivers and don't know how to interpret what an analogue car would tell them. This is because they haven't had to: in short, I agree that younger drivers have become to accustomed to driver aids but we can't stop them buying TVRs
Perhaps there should be a greater focus on upskilling young drivers rather than saying 'you lot are worse than us'
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