Quoted weight/power figures
Discussion
quote:Out of reason, this happens:
I'm not sure what happens if you exceed it. Quite possibly nothing, within reason.
www.newsrebel.com/photo_december00.htm
Evo mag are doing a project thing where one of the Editors is making a Mk1 Capri track car.
He has got a TVR 500 engine that is now 5.3 litres with a LOT of tuning work done including a £4k exhaust - That was dyno'ed at 298bhp at the flywheel on the bench, so it appears the TVR Factory figures must be way off the mark.
Thing is, the cars still go like poo off a highly polished shovel and cause great pain in the face due to excessive grinning, so if you want something that does exactly what it say's on the tun, buy some Ronseal!!
He has got a TVR 500 engine that is now 5.3 litres with a LOT of tuning work done including a £4k exhaust - That was dyno'ed at 298bhp at the flywheel on the bench, so it appears the TVR Factory figures must be way off the mark.
Thing is, the cars still go like poo off a highly polished shovel and cause great pain in the face due to excessive grinning, so if you want something that does exactly what it say's on the tun, buy some Ronseal!!
quote:
In the handbook for my Chimaera 500 (and similarly in various motoring magazines) the following figures are stated:
power 340bhp
weight 1060kg
power/weight ratio 307bhp/ton
Does anyone know the true weight and power output?
Oh, this old chestnut again. Yes anything with a Rover derived V8 is likely to be "down" on power from that quoted in the official TVR press. But, it all about the testing - there are so many ways of testing this that they may be true for the way that they want to test it at the factory.... but the way that some people like is via a rolling road - this gives you power at the wheels which is very different than that at the flywheel...
Power isnt everything - performance is. So what if it has 300 rather than 340 (or even less). It does match the figures that it is supposed to and therefore who cares if it is even less than 200.... as long as it gets there and fast (almost exactly the same as the official figures). Dont forget that another important factor is super / unleaded. They are cars designed for super and testing on unleaded isnt fair.
As for true output - you should be around the 270 - 290 mark (it depends on the build and HC or normal). But to comment on some other points raised - yes this might be anything up to 20% down on power. BUT does this mean that you are 20% slower? No, what you might loose on BHP power you will still have in torque. Therefore you will still have the kick-in-the-jacksee accelleration from the high torque engine. So what you loose on BHP does little to affect the actual performance anyway - so complain all you want, and has been mentioned before, take TVR to court over trades descrptions .... but at the end of the day - does it go like stink? Yes. Does the engine run OK? Yes. Therefore dont worry and get out there - moaning about some figures on a piece of paper is academic and pointless...
Oh, and if you are a driver that can truely handle 340BHP in a car 1080KG in weight with no electronic controls and rear-wheel drive then you are a better man than me.... I think that the number of drivers that can really cope with this all of the time is small...
Cheers,
Paul
FatSteve said: 
quote:Well, surely your username should be BigBonedSteve then - that's assuming 'Steve' is your real name!? You see, it's your fault people are accussing you of being fat - you wouldn't catch me moaning if people accused me of sweeping the roads now would you?!
Hey, I'm not fat I'm big boned.....
quote:
Evo mag are doing a project thing where one of the Editors is making a Mk1 Capri track car.
He has got a TVR 500 engine that is now 5.3 litres with a LOT of tuning work done including a £4k exhaust - That was dyno'ed at 298bhp at the flywheel on the bench, so it appears the TVR Factory figures must be way off the mark.
Thing is, the cars still go like poo off a highly polished shovel and cause great pain in the face due to excessive grinning, so if you want something that does exactly what it say's on the tun, buy some Ronseal!!
So he spends a fortune and gets 298 on a bench. My 5 litre Griff with carefully considered and relatively inexpensive mods (around £3000) is 300+ bhp in the car at the flywheel and was 30-40 bhp up from normal. Standard exhaust though. The 520 engine which is 5.2 litres is DETUNED to around 400 bhp.
Steve
Did it say who had done the mods?
All this talk of power measurements and the overstatement thereof reminds of that dreaded phrase oft bandied about, namely 'real world performance.'
For example, it really doesn't matter whose car I'm in, I simply cannot keep up with white Astramax vans, much less attempt the ultimate in audacity, i.e. the overtaking of VW's stealth weapon for the cognestenti, the criminally overlooked Passat 1.9 TDi. Fast? You'd better bring a McLaren!
For example, it really doesn't matter whose car I'm in, I simply cannot keep up with white Astramax vans, much less attempt the ultimate in audacity, i.e. the overtaking of VW's stealth weapon for the cognestenti, the criminally overlooked Passat 1.9 TDi. Fast? You'd better bring a McLaren!
quote:
All this talk of power measurements and the overstatement thereof reminds of that dreaded phrase oft bandied about, namely 'real world performance.'
For example, it really doesn't matter whose car I'm in, I simply cannot keep up with white Astramax vans, much less attempt the ultimate in audacity, i.e. the overtaking of VW's stealth weapon for the cognestenti, the criminally overlooked Passat 1.9 TDi. Fast? You'd better bring a McLaren!
I think that you will find that the fastest car on the road is the rental car and not the astramax as some people believe...
Cheers,
Paul
quote:
quote:
He has got a TVR 500 engine that is now 5.3 litres
I got the impression it was not a TVR engine but had been built up by someone else, however I did miss an issue so maybe I'm wrong.
D.
There seems to be a practical limit of 5.2 liters. I only know of one person with an actual 5.3. There aren't many people who believe it can be done, let alone prepared to try it. If it's a genuine 5.3 with all the trimmings then from the figures I've been quoted I would expect way over 300 at the flywheel, maybe around 300 at the road.
quote:
quote:
quote:
He has got a TVR 500 engine that is now 5.3 litres
I got the impression it was not a TVR engine but had been built up by someone else, however I did miss an issue so maybe I'm wrong.
D.
There seems to be a practical limit of 5.2 liters. I only know of one person with an actual 5.3. There aren't many people who believe it can be done, let alone prepared to try it. If it's a genuine 5.3 with all the trimmings then from the figures I've been quoted I would expect way over 300 at the flywheel, maybe around 300 at the road.
It looks like a TVR one with '500' on the plenum?
I will re-read update accordingly! - I just read this month's last night and it did say that although he was told it was a 5.2, once it was 'tested' it transpired it was actually 5.3l - They said the guys who did it were very cagey about details as the guy who made the exhaust had to get in touch with them directly to get enough details.
The exhaust is stunning - each pipe is a tuned length before they join and looks like a snakes nest if stainless steel.
IIRC the 298BHP was before this exhaust. It was on the bench so I am not sure what zorst it was with.
>> Edited by hughjayteens on Monday 9th September 17:15
quote:
I think that you will find that the fastest car on the road is the rental car and not the astramax as some people believe...
Cheers,
Paul
Sorry, Paul! Of course - the Easy Jet Rental A-class Merc shopping trolley - I didn't realize that Stellios had bought 'em all from Brabus!
quote:You are quite right: it is a 'Javelin' Rover V8 unit that they got from Power Train Projects (PTP) that they claim is rated at 300bhp/310lb ft (although the article is a little vague as to whether PTP built it or acquired it from someone else). Oh, and it was a cool 8K with gearbox.
I got the impression it was not a TVR engine but had been built up by someone else, however I did miss an issue so maybe I'm wrong.
Evo did talk to TVR about supplying engines but apparently TVR Power were 'restructuring' and couldn't build one, and they didn't want an AJP8.
quote:
You could get more than 5.3 litres if the pistons and bores were square in section...
Original thinking - 10% please if anyone makes a success of it.
I am sure I read that the new Golf R32 has 'T' shaped pistons to allow them to get such a large displacement into a physically small engine with the 15 degree Vee. I am not sure what exactly they mean by T shape though if anyone can clarify?
quote:
quote:You are quite right: it is a 'Javelin' Rover V8 unit that they got from Power Train Projects (PTP) that they claim is rated at 300bhp/310lb ft (although the article is a little vague as to whether PTP built it or acquired it from someone else). Oh, and it was a cool 8K with gearbox.
I got the impression it was not a TVR engine but had been built up by someone else, however I did miss an issue so maybe I'm wrong.
Evo did talk to TVR about supplying engines but apparently TVR Power were 'restructuring' and couldn't build one, and they didn't want an AJP8.
I assumed it was a TVR lump due to the plenum having a 500 badge on a la griff and chim 500s - I don't recall seeing those on any other Rover lumps (although in all honesty my knowledge of rover V8s is rather limited!!!). PTP did seem rather vague so perhaps its is a TVR lump but just not supplied by TVR?
back on thread...
FFS, if the engine won't make 340bhp or whatever, then the manufacturer has no right to claim it does.
It's just a marketing rip-off if it's an outright lie, or just shoddy standards if the manufacturer doesn't know that their engines aren't amking stated power.
Keith Duckworth used to talk of 'Cosworth Horsepower' - i.e. the idea that Cosworth would only state a true horsepower figure, which in reality meant quoting the minimum power an engine variant would make, not some pie in the sky best case figure.
rant over.
FFS, if the engine won't make 340bhp or whatever, then the manufacturer has no right to claim it does.
It's just a marketing rip-off if it's an outright lie, or just shoddy standards if the manufacturer doesn't know that their engines aren't amking stated power.
Keith Duckworth used to talk of 'Cosworth Horsepower' - i.e. the idea that Cosworth would only state a true horsepower figure, which in reality meant quoting the minimum power an engine variant would make, not some pie in the sky best case figure.
rant over.
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