Autocar - New Typhon Details?
Discussion
Los Angeles said:
Derek Smith said:
there's nothing that gets the excitement going like a Tam, at least under £100k. The car has something no current Porsche has, perfect balance.
A Cayman? And given modern tastes and expectations, and the state of TVR, the vast majority of sports car fans will choose ...?I doubt you'll get many current TVR owners to buy a Cayman.
Cayman are for sad old men who've given up on life. As are Porsches generally.
People buy them mainly because of a lack of alternative and they do so with the same passion as does the man in the VW dealer when he writes his cheque for the 1.9 tdi. Undeniably good cars (germans build good machines) but life threateningly dull. I still maintain that the dullest possible way to ever experience 160mph is behind the wheel of a 911 turbo. It's quite some achievement but then again, like pop music - that's by definition what most people want. But thank heaven there are still some car makers out of step with popular opinion! Otherwise we'd all be condemned to drive such cars and listen to Westlife while we're at it. TVR were the ultimate remaining Indie act and as such the current state of affairs is tragic for those with more alternative tastes.
Porsche's financial success is all about the US where, incidentally, they pay about the same in dollars as we do in pounds. Outrageously unfair but more fool the UK porsche buyer.
Against everything I've ever understood about marketing and brand building Porsche have had huge success by sticking their badges on a VW touran and calling it a Cayenne. It is a hideous, awful, cynical car that should have destroyed the image of a brand steeped in race pedigree. But oh no. Not in the US (where SUV's are still king) I can understand but over here too? Utterly mystifying.
People buy them mainly because of a lack of alternative and they do so with the same passion as does the man in the VW dealer when he writes his cheque for the 1.9 tdi. Undeniably good cars (germans build good machines) but life threateningly dull. I still maintain that the dullest possible way to ever experience 160mph is behind the wheel of a 911 turbo. It's quite some achievement but then again, like pop music - that's by definition what most people want. But thank heaven there are still some car makers out of step with popular opinion! Otherwise we'd all be condemned to drive such cars and listen to Westlife while we're at it. TVR were the ultimate remaining Indie act and as such the current state of affairs is tragic for those with more alternative tastes.
Porsche's financial success is all about the US where, incidentally, they pay about the same in dollars as we do in pounds. Outrageously unfair but more fool the UK porsche buyer.
Against everything I've ever understood about marketing and brand building Porsche have had huge success by sticking their badges on a VW touran and calling it a Cayenne. It is a hideous, awful, cynical car that should have destroyed the image of a brand steeped in race pedigree. But oh no. Not in the US (where SUV's are still king) I can understand but over here too? Utterly mystifying.
Derek Smith said:
RedTuscan said:
Mr Smith, you drive a Chimaera. You are clearly happy with 1992, the rest of the world is not.
The fact that Porsche are doing so well proves that you do not have to buy a Toyota if you desire from a car the factors that I describe.
Blow me, you are right. The world has turned to safety first. That's why no one nowadays, unless they are living in the 1990s, buys a motorbike, a Caterham, a car that gives them a thrill. Or plays rugby, goes mountain climbing or turns off the satnav just to see where the road takes them. Perish the thought that something might happen. The fact that Porsche are doing so well proves that you do not have to buy a Toyota if you desire from a car the factors that I describe.
The fact that Porsche are doing so well is more to do with the fact that they spend ooddles on marketing aimed at those who probably work in marketing.
What I am saying is that not everyone considers add on safety; abs, a widget that turns off the engine if you are enjoying yourself, not to mention a device which go ping if it thinks you are not thinking, as advantages. If you want that sort of thing, go Toyota. If you want thrills and the joy of driving then the Porsche route is not for me and, I know full well, many others.
I'm living in the '90s because my income is. If I had the money I'd go for a Tamora, without a shadow of a doubt. I've driven a few cars over the years and every modern TVR but the Sagaris, and there's nothing that gets the excitement going like a Tam, at least under £100k. The car has something no current Porsche has, perfect balance.
You get nothing for nothing. If you want the car to do the driving for you, you miss so much. Modern cars emasculate. Go on, lock the wheels, slide the back end and, most importantly, put your heart-rate up.
You only have one life. If safety is your thing then work out who you will leave your unused bits of life to when you go.
Woohoo! Go Derek! Go Derek!the pits said:
Cayman are for sad old men who've given up on life. As are Porsches generally.
What utter, utter shite.
the pits said:
People buy them mainly because of a lack of alternative and they do so with the same passion as does the man in the VW dealer when he writes his cheque for the 1.9 tdi. Undeniably good cars (germans build good machines) but life threateningly dull. I still maintain that the dullest possible way to ever experience 160mph is behind the wheel of a 911 turbo. It's quite some achievement but then again, like pop music - that's by definition what most people want. But thank heaven there are still some car makers out of step with popular opinion! Otherwise we'd all be condemned to drive such cars and listen to Westlife while we're at it. TVR were the ultimate remaining Indie act and as such the current state of affairs is tragic for those with more alternative tastes.
More rubbish. So you're saying that GT3 RS buyers aren't passionate about what they drive? Cobblers, as well you know.
the pits said:
Against everything I've ever understood about marketing and brand building Porsche have had huge success by sticking their badges on a VW touran and calling it a Cayenne.
It follows much of what I understand about marketing and brand-building. It's the Touareg, not Touran, by the way.
Without Cayenne, we wouldn't have the Carrera GT. I think that's a fair trade.
Edited by ahonen on Thursday 16th November 14:33
So sorry, a Twareg base makes all the difference. Suddenly the Cayenne is a good car.....
either way I think the V10 diesel is actually a far less embarassing thing to drive than any Cayenne.
But the Cayenne isn't the point. I do believe many people buy Porsches because either they don't know what else to buy or they don't know anything about cars (not saying this is a bad thing) and they just want a 'sports car' or they are not imaginative enough to consider alternatives. Porsche is the default sports car just like the vw golf tdi is the default compact. You can't get to that point by making a bad car. But you can't get to that point by taking risks either - hence by definition the most popular cars will be the most dull - esp. compared to some of the more daring alternatives.
Buying a Porsche is the 'safe bet'. What a miserable starting point for a so-called 'dream car'?
Ferrari have gone the way of Porsche and tried to be all sensible and they consequently produce, I think, inexcusably ugly cars (for ferraris) in search of greater practicality. The trouble with jolly sensible supercars is they aren't much fun.
You don't see many Porsche owners smiling behind the wheel do you?
either way I think the V10 diesel is actually a far less embarassing thing to drive than any Cayenne.
But the Cayenne isn't the point. I do believe many people buy Porsches because either they don't know what else to buy or they don't know anything about cars (not saying this is a bad thing) and they just want a 'sports car' or they are not imaginative enough to consider alternatives. Porsche is the default sports car just like the vw golf tdi is the default compact. You can't get to that point by making a bad car. But you can't get to that point by taking risks either - hence by definition the most popular cars will be the most dull - esp. compared to some of the more daring alternatives.
Buying a Porsche is the 'safe bet'. What a miserable starting point for a so-called 'dream car'?
Ferrari have gone the way of Porsche and tried to be all sensible and they consequently produce, I think, inexcusably ugly cars (for ferraris) in search of greater practicality. The trouble with jolly sensible supercars is they aren't much fun.
You don't see many Porsche owners smiling behind the wheel do you?
Edited by the pits on Thursday 16th November 15:39
the pits said:
You don't see many Porsche owners smiling behind the wheel do you?
Too right, and you don't see many pedestrians smiling at them either. I get waves and blown kisses. I stopped to allow a group of 8-10 year old school kids to cross the road and they all gave the 'rev-it-up' sign to me. The teacher (cor, you should have seen her. Didn't have teachers like that when I was a kid. Mrs French could curdle custard.) was asked by one kid, 'What is it, miss?' (kids from a private school so very little swearing and few street robberies) and she said, 'It's a TVR. A Chimaera.' and smiled at me.
No wonder we smile a lot.
Porsche drivers get that all the time as well. Probably.
Derek for heaven's sake stop trying to justify your car by having a go at another. Your profile says you edit Sprint, so try bringing some decent journalistic standards to your posts, rather than recycling inaccurate hackneyed cliches. All that happens is you sound like a daft little Englander.
AndrewD said:
Derek for heaven's sake stop trying to justify your car by having a go at another. Your profile says you edit Sprint, so try bringing some decent journalistic standards to your posts, rather than recycling inaccurate hackneyed cliches. All that happens is you sound like a daft little Englander.
Your point being?Inaccurate hackneyed cliches? Ooh, that would hurt any editor.
I didn't bring up the comparison with Porsche and to be fair, I've compared the public's reaction to TVRs and Porsches. Surely you would not disagree. Also, I've not compared my car, but a Tamora.
And I'm Derek Smith. If I want to comment as my TVR persona I will make that clear in the thread. I feel I should not hide behind a nom-de-plume. But that said, I still have opinions.
This thread, or this part of it, is hardly a serious one. It's a bit of fun. I feel sure that I will not convince you that abs and such are a bit girly, and you won't convince me otherwise. And certainly not by calling me names.
I didn't bring up the comparison with Porsche and to be fair, I've compared the public's reaction to TVRs and Porsches. Surely you would not disagree. Also, I've not compared my car, but a Tamora.
And I'm Derek Smith. If I want to comment as my TVR persona I will make that clear in the thread. I feel I should not hide behind a nom-de-plume. But that said, I still have opinions.
This thread, or this part of it, is hardly a serious one. It's a bit of fun. I feel sure that I will not convince you that abs and such are a bit girly, and you won't convince me otherwise. And certainly not by calling me names.
Derek Smith said:
AndrewD said:
Derek for heaven's sake stop trying to justify your car by having a go at another. Your profile says you edit Sprint, so try bringing some decent journalistic standards to your posts, rather than recycling inaccurate hackneyed cliches. All that happens is you sound like a daft little Englander.
Your point being?QED
I think you've missed the point of my post.
You've got to have a bit of fun every now and again. You know, drink a little bit of caffienated coffee, sugary coke, tell the boss he's an idiot. I went rock climbing once and didn't enjoy it. A friend who came with me was terrified and froze at one point. He went back time and again. He got a kick from it.
Haven't you ever been in the situation where you've buzzed after doing something dangerous, and I'm not talking about Shoreditch Lil here?
Remember: eat sensibly, drink in moderation, drive carefully, die anyway.
You've got to have a bit of fun every now and again. You know, drink a little bit of caffienated coffee, sugary coke, tell the boss he's an idiot. I went rock climbing once and didn't enjoy it. A friend who came with me was terrified and froze at one point. He went back time and again. He got a kick from it.
Haven't you ever been in the situation where you've buzzed after doing something dangerous, and I'm not talking about Shoreditch Lil here?
Remember: eat sensibly, drink in moderation, drive carefully, die anyway.
Traction control saves lives for people who can't drive that's for sure. I was in a Beemer with someone who had no idea about either cars or physics. The electronics kept us from certain death several times. I was grateful for them in the passenger seat but from the driving seat they totally got in the way of the driving experience. And ruined it.
996 Turbo in the wet at the nurburgring - ghastly PSM killjoy cuts in violently and feels dreadful but we stay on the black bits. So it works but I wasn't enjoying my lap one bit. Turn it off? Oh dear. That'll be a rear engine then. I thought they 'cured' the 911? And this one had 4wd!!! GT2 owners you have my respect. Rather you than me.
The way modern TVRs put down their large amounts of power in 1100kgs is truly stunning. And not possible without the long travel throttle, high rpm characteristics of the speed six (and relatively low, low-down torque) and engine set far back behind the front wheels (ie inherent balance). For the record this is why my Sagaris was genuinely impressive and stunning to drive round the same wet nurburgring.
My theory is that's also why the Griffith's low down torque party piece that everyone so loves here is also why they have a reputation for being a bit of a handful.
996 Turbo in the wet at the nurburgring - ghastly PSM killjoy cuts in violently and feels dreadful but we stay on the black bits. So it works but I wasn't enjoying my lap one bit. Turn it off? Oh dear. That'll be a rear engine then. I thought they 'cured' the 911? And this one had 4wd!!! GT2 owners you have my respect. Rather you than me.
The way modern TVRs put down their large amounts of power in 1100kgs is truly stunning. And not possible without the long travel throttle, high rpm characteristics of the speed six (and relatively low, low-down torque) and engine set far back behind the front wheels (ie inherent balance). For the record this is why my Sagaris was genuinely impressive and stunning to drive round the same wet nurburgring.
My theory is that's also why the Griffith's low down torque party piece that everyone so loves here is also why they have a reputation for being a bit of a handful.
I must have missed something here but why exactly did NS bother buying TVR?
He is getting rid of the factory
He is getting rid of the staff
He is getting rid of the existing customers
He is getting rid of the dealerships
He is getting rid of the whole quirky hand built thing
He is getting rid of, well, pretty much everything TVR
He must have some wicked plan up his sleeve for all this to come together and make sense.
I wonder what it might be
He is getting rid of the factory
He is getting rid of the staff
He is getting rid of the existing customers
He is getting rid of the dealerships
He is getting rid of the whole quirky hand built thing
He is getting rid of, well, pretty much everything TVR
He must have some wicked plan up his sleeve for all this to come together and make sense.
I wonder what it might be
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