ABS to become standard?
Discussion
Spotted in the Driving supplement in the Times on Sunday (ok, no the paragon of journalism) but they are saying that come 2004 all new cars sold in the EU have to come with ABS as standard due to a new law that they have passed.
Not sure if this affects TVR with the old low volume vehicle approval bit, but worth taking a note of. Anyone know more of what the deal might / will be?
Not sure if this affects TVR with the old low volume vehicle approval bit, but worth taking a note of. Anyone know more of what the deal might / will be?
Sometimes the EU does things that are worthwhile...
Ensuring even the cheapest euro-s**t-box has ABS is a good thing seeing some of the numpty driving we have to put up with...
It might even be a good think for TVR frankly..but I'll bet there's a way that TVR can avoid fitting it if they really want to..
Ensuring even the cheapest euro-s**t-box has ABS is a good thing seeing some of the numpty driving we have to put up with...
It might even be a good think for TVR frankly..but I'll bet there's a way that TVR can avoid fitting it if they really want to..
Dont the Europeans see ABS as more of a problem than a solution?
People come to rely on it and then when it kicks in they panic and take their foot off the brake leading to a harder impact.
At some point in time your insurance was higher if you had ABS.
When it comes to TVR though as you say they will probably find a way around it, if they do perhaps it should be a no cost option?
People come to rely on it and then when it kicks in they panic and take their foot off the brake leading to a harder impact.
At some point in time your insurance was higher if you had ABS.
When it comes to TVR though as you say they will probably find a way around it, if they do perhaps it should be a no cost option?
plotloss said:
Dont the Europeans see ABS as more of a problem than a solution?
People come to rely on it and then when it kicks in they panic and take their foot off the brake leading to a harder impact.
Yep it lulls joe bloggs into a false sense of security that he/she/it can go faster than they can cope with.
Same applies to 4WD, as far as joe bloggs ability and the public roads are concerned, if it takes 4WD to get going so fast (I'm thinking of snow etc here) can you really do so safely from your own point of view never mind anyone elses. Remembering you have to be able to stop aswell.
>> Edited by vitesse39 on Tuesday 2nd September 12:17
plotloss said:
People come to rely on it and then when it kicks in they panic and take their foot off the brake leading to a harder impact.
I do think the level of education about ABS when it started to come in was very poor... I remember the first time I had to brake hard in a car with ABS and wondering WTF was happening with all the juddering. Thankfully, I didn't lift off, but it would be good if people were educated to expect it.
. Oh I didn't realise it was you spn or I wouldn't have bothered rising to the bait. Don said:
Sometimes the EU does things that are worthwhile...
Ensuring even the cheapest euro-s**t-box has ABS is a good thing seeing some of the numpty driving we have to put up with...
It might even be a good think for TVR frankly..but I'll bet there's a way that TVR can avoid fitting it if they really want to..
I appreciate your sentiment but the problem is that ABS is actually more dangerous for the numpty drivers because it allows them to believe they can stop faster than they actually car. As a result of this, they are liable to end up driving faster than is safe for the conditions (especially snow and ice).
The idea that ABS is a magic system that will make tha average Joe a better driver is dangerous - and exactly the thing that an ignorant politician would try to make mandatory because they don't really understand either physics or automotive engineering.
Wouldn't it be better to judge cars on their braking times under both normal and slippery conditions? If a car can stop in a certain distance then it is safe - whether or not it has ABS should be irrelevant. Some cars would need ABS to meet the standard and some would not.
The idea that a person wouldn't buy a car because it didn't have ABS or (worse) assume that because a car has got ABS that it is automatically safe is not something that should be encouraged.
plotloss said:
Cadence braking???
plotloss said:
ABS doesnt make you stop any quicker, it just means that you can steer whilst braking which you cant do if you are standing on the middle pedal of a normally braked car.
Totally agree with you plotloss. ABS is only mechanised cadence braking anyway - although that is difficult to do whilst steering out of trouble. Point is that it doesn't stop the car quicker. Witness the Autocar 0-100-0mph challenge. How many of the top 5 had ABS?
But when did the EU ever listen to reason? They killed off 4-star because it contained lead and replaced it with unleaded, which contains benzene. It's so dangerous - carcinogenic - they can't use it in schools I think. They simply replaced one unpleasant chemical with another at great expense to everyone on the crest of a fashion wave. But it makes them think they're justifying their worthless existence. Damn meddlers.
simpo two said:
Ever tried ABS in the snow? Bloody useless. Or is it just BMW 7's?
Even if TVR have to fit ABS, I'm sure we'll see ads saying 'de-ABSed'!)
All you have to do on the Clio 172 is to take out the Fuse or relay that supplys power to the ABS Unit. So i am told by a friendly renault dealer while on was on a test drive.
Was going to buy a 172 cup but they did not have a demo car. went out in 172 drove the nuts of it he said test the stopping distance emergency stop done no smoke al under control. he opened the door removed what looked like to be a blade fuse and another black box. then told me to do it again. And behold loads of black smoke and black lines on the Tarmac.
Steve
Don said:
Sometimes the EU does things that are worthwhile.....
[Life of Brian Mode]
Well go on, name one thing that the EU have done for us....
[/Life of Brian Mode]
Whether a car has ABS or not does not make it safe. Any "safety" feature only has limited effect anyway as everyone readjusts to their comfortable risk level anyway - cf. seat belt laws, crash helmet laws, Volvo drivers, et cetera....
Well I am fairly convinced that the rise in such numpty behavour as tailgating is partly down to the rise of ABS and airbags in cars. This has given people a belief that
A. they aids will stop them having an accident
B. they will not get hurt no matter what happens.
The rest of the reasons are down to the societal changes that are making this country a "me me me" culture and why my car has countless carpark scars with not one note of apology (never mind offering to pay for repairs).
A. they aids will stop them having an accident
B. they will not get hurt no matter what happens.
The rest of the reasons are down to the societal changes that are making this country a "me me me" culture and why my car has countless carpark scars with not one note of apology (never mind offering to pay for repairs).
icamm said:
A. they aids will stop them having an accident
Dont knock it - went to see a Merc dealer about an SLK (and before anyone says - it was for the wife, who once driving it said "no stuffing way"). He blithered on about how ABS is a safety aid and it will help you in an accident....
Only to be corrected by me and then asked how that Brake assist stuff works (no one has ever explained it to me!). Again it was something that "helps in a crash". Had a test drive, told him the car was crap and he should go on a refresher car-knowledge course...
Unfortunately - not his fault per se, as he was merely telling me what countless other people wanted to hear and think they know.... that ABS saves you in an accident - which it plainly doesnt...
ABS.
____
NO car will stop quicker or safer with abs - but the opposite can be true. - Ice/Snow - you want to lock the wheels as this generates heat and gets your tyres down to the black stuff for grip.
AIRBAGS.
________
NO lifes have been saved by an airbag whilst wearing a seatbelt but there have been cases where people have been killed by airbags in such circumstances. - Hence smaller airbags in the eu that the usa (can't/won't enforce seatbelt wearing.)
Are these REALLY safety devices ?
Personally I don't want either..
____
NO car will stop quicker or safer with abs - but the opposite can be true. - Ice/Snow - you want to lock the wheels as this generates heat and gets your tyres down to the black stuff for grip.
AIRBAGS.
________
NO lifes have been saved by an airbag whilst wearing a seatbelt but there have been cases where people have been killed by airbags in such circumstances. - Hence smaller airbags in the eu that the usa (can't/won't enforce seatbelt wearing.)
Are these REALLY safety devices ?
Personally I don't want either..
Bold statements from the owner of a car without either. The general motoring world seem to think otherwise but I'm sure all TVR drivers know best.
Edited to add that cars without ABS stop quicker in thick snow because the locked tyre pushes an edge of snow in front of it. A locked tyre in frozen conditions MELTS the snow/ice???
>> Edited by spnracing on Wednesday 3rd September 21:39
Edited to add that cars without ABS stop quicker in thick snow because the locked tyre pushes an edge of snow in front of it. A locked tyre in frozen conditions MELTS the snow/ice???
>> Edited by spnracing on Wednesday 3rd September 21:39
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