Did you experience the Speed 12?

[dhf]

correct !

[dhf]

these are The SPEED TWELVES i am talking about.........

Edited by dhf on Sunday 22 February 23:11

[V8 GRF]

I think the white one pictured with JC is the one taht went to Japan without an engine.The two purple ones I believe are the ones that ended up being butchered to build the latest incarnation of W112 BHG.
The remaining bits being bought by G1ABB who posted earlier in this thread.
I think W312 BHG pictured above became W112 BHG IIRC.

Edited by V8 GRF on Sunday 22 February 23:29

[V8 GRF]

A.G said:

V8 GRF said:

The two purple ones I believe are the ones that ended up being butchered to build the latest incarnation of W112 BHG. The remaining bits being bought by G1ABB who posted earlier in this thread.

wrong

You can't just say that, enlightenment please

Edited by V8 GRF on Monday 23 February 08:15

[Roop]

No chassis parts were shared between Speed Twelve and Cerbera Speed Twelve. Completely different designs using completely different technology. Traditional tube with fibreglass / carbon skin for the former and a hybrid tube and aluminium honeycomb for the latter. The Cerbera Speed Twelve raised the game MASSIVELY over the original Speed Twelve with the Cerbera featuring a lot of beutiful parts machined from billet alloys rather than the Speed Twelves parts which looked like they were welded up by Stevie Wonder out of scrapped wedge chassis...

Yes, the engine was a development of the earlier ones but I am not even sure they used the same gearbox. Speed Twelve was a 2-speed NASCAR unit with overdrive (ie: 4 speed).

[V8 GRF]

I realised that they were different from a chassis point of view and they had built new brakes etc, but I was under the impression that they'd used some suspension, engine and drivetrain parts along with other bits like body panels and interior panel parts?

[Roop]

V8 GRF said:

I realised that they were different from a chassis point of view and they had built new brakes etc, but I was under the impression that they'd used some suspension, engine and drivetrain parts along with other bits like body panels and interior panel parts?

Engine yes, possibly gearbox (can't remember what was in the CS12). Everything else was different - brakes, body panels, interior etc

[tamore]

does anyone know if during all the engine fettling it was developed to a point where it was a case of turning the key/ pushing the button to start it? as opposed to plugging in it's electric blanket for half an hour beforehand.

[V8 GRF]

tamore said:

does anyone know if during all the engine fettling it was developed to a point where it was a case of turning the key/ pushing the button to start it? as opposed to plugging in it's electric blanket for half an hour beforehand.

I think it was always a race spec so plugging it in is certainly required. W312 BHG is the only running Speed 12 left as far as I'm aware?. I've seen an engine on the floor in the Wesham building but that isn't a runner and I believe is being donated to the museum at Bealieu.

[tamore]

this is possibly highlighting my technical ignorance, but how come bugatti can develop 1000bhp with a cold start engine, and the 7.7 '12' needed pre heating?

is that a simple cash development equation?

[V8 GRF]

tamore said:

this is possibly highlighting my technical ignorance, but how come bugatti can develop 1000bhp with a cold start engine, and the 7.7 '12' needed pre heating?

is that a simple cash development equation?

Interesting question, I don't know either but I imagine you're not too far away with the cash thing.

[YAHOO]

dhf said:

these are The SPEED TWELVES i am talking about.........

Edited by dhf on Sunday 22 February 23:11

Yep that's the real bad boys.
As for pre heating , someone's spinning some poo !!
It really is just 2 speed6's stuck together . And its not that fragile a unit.

[V8 GRF]

YAHOO said:

As for pre heating , someone's spinning some poo !!
It really is just 2 speed6's stuck together . And its not that fragile a unit.

W312 BHG does require pre heating, no one said anything about them being fragile but two speed 6's welded together isn't the height of technology is it?

[YAHOO]

V8 GRF said:

YAHOO said:

As for pre heating , someone's spinning some poo !!
It really is just 2 speed6's stuck together . And its not that fragile a unit.

W312 BHG does require pre heating, no one said anything about them being fragile but two speed 6's welded together isn't the height of technology is it?

And the Buick engine is only joking !
I used to be down at the factory every so often and the original silver speed 12 was started when i asked it to be started with not to much problem ! odd .

[450Nick]

IIRC, the 'original' speed 12 engine produced around 700bhp, but the later ones from the race cars (and the one in the road car) were racing engines with I guess higher tolerances and around a couple of hundred more horsepower. Whatever they did to find this extra horsepower, I'm guessing it brought on the immersion heater. Its not a particularly big deal though is it?!

I remember speaking to John Reid about the engines last summer and he explained that all parts were machined by hand which turned out to be very expensive and at times caused some unreliability in the early forrays into racing. Though he reckoned that the last incarnations were pretty good, though required fairly regular rebuilds due to their racing nature. He also said that he knew of only two engines that were still in existance. The one in the road car, and another he knew of (possibly the one V8 GRF mentioned) which he reckoned wasn't currently useable, but could be made to run fairly easily.

He're a copy of the EVO review by the way, it has some interesting stuff in if anyone's interested

Edited by 450Nick on Monday 23 February 19:55

[dhf]

Ok,so to sum up The Speed Twelve is a completely different car in all aspects to the Cerbera Speed Twelve and Cerbera Speed Twelve GT.
There were two running Speed Twelves,a road car and a race car both purple with possibly one or more white race cars or not.(Scalelectric had a purple and white Speed Twelve,joke!).
Where are they now ?
The bits bought from the factory,what were they from, The Speed Twelve or the Cerbera speed twelve ?
Now to go off the original topic !
How many Cerbera Speed Twelve and Cerbera Speed Twelve GT's were there.i have photos of 7 different coloured ones.
Silver/Red W312 BFV
Red/Orange Candy W112 BHG
Purple
Black
Dark Blue
Pale Blue.
(the Red Car has appeared with both plates on it W312 BFV and W112 BHG)
White

Edited by dhf on Monday 23 February 21:35

Edited by dhf on Monday 23 February 22:01

Edited by dhf on Monday 23 February 22:05

Edited by dhf on Sunday 1st March 18:41

[bosscerbera]

dhf said:

Ok,so to sum up The Speed Twelve is a completely different car in all aspects to the Cerbera Speed Twelve and Cerbera Speed Twelve GT.
There were two running Speed Twelves,a road car and a race car both purple with possibly one or more white race cars.(Scalelectric had a purple and white Speed Twelve,joke!).
Where are they now ?
The bits bought from the factory,what were they from, The Speed Twelve or the Cerbera speed twelve ?
Now to go off the original topic !
How many Cerbera Speed Twelve and Cerbera Speed Twelve GT's were there?

I am still surprised - unless I've missed them? - that nobody has ever posted photos from 2000 when TWO Cerbera Speed Twelve race cars turned up at Silverstone for a GT round. The black car ran fine, the white one (hired to Ashley Ward and a co-driver) had lots of problems and ultimately didn't race. Somebody, somewhere, must have snaps of them sitting line astern in the Silverstone garage??

[George 500]

V8 GRF said:

tamore said:

this is possibly highlighting my technical ignorance, but how come bugatti can develop 1000bhp with a cold start engine, and the 7.7 '12' needed pre heating?

is that a simple cash development equation?

Interesting question, I don't know either but I imagine you're not too far away with the cash thing.

The Veyron's engine is 300cc bigger and turbocharged...

[jgr]

Ok Speed 12s not Cerbera, purple car and white car are the same the white car was painted
7 shade flip paint car was a show car only.
White/purple car is still not far from Preston, it went to HL Gorners and never came back, only body and chassis went though.
Show car was in the same workshop as Bluebird after it was recoverd, not sure how it got there but it did.
Speed 12, Cerbera Speed 12 and Cerbera V8 GT all use more of the same parts than you may think.
Also a very early narrow Speed 12 (the duck pond) was chopped up

Edited by jgr on Tuesday 24th February 00:30

[V8 GRF]

A.G. said:

V8 GRF said:

A.G. said:

wrong

You can't just say that, enlightenment please
Jeez, I've got some stiff competition here.

V8 GRF
Embargo Manager
Sagaris Undercover Re-launch Team
Frustrating Snippet Office
Ministry Of Partial Information

EFA

I assume we've never met? If we have then mail me and let me know who you are.

I'm an enthusiast who knows bits and pieces, I'm always keen to learn and never pretend I know more than I actually do.
Yes I talk to TVR and any one else involved with the factory, I have no axes to grind so I don't favour one above the other on contencious issues, maybe some people don't like that but I'm genuine.

I love these cars and everything associated with them.

ETA Johnathon we have met and you know I just want to learn so lets chat about this.....

Edited by V8 GRF on Tuesday 24th February 01:25