Does it have to be TVR?
Discussion
pistolar said:From a business perspective I suspect it is important in being able to better control costs & margins and in isolating them from the vaguaries of external component supply.
Being an owner of older TVRs with "doner" engines, it got me thinking, How important is it that TVR produce their own engines.
It also gives them free reign to design some stonkingly good cars.
pistolar said:
sorry, dont agree. Out sourcing engines on a fixed price with no capital outlay on development, testing, machinery and tooling seems like a good idea to me.
See your point.. taken Noble for example. Ford unit seems to be pretty durable, and develops enough grunt.
Then again, think it's great that TVR can produce their own engines...
Podie said:Noble is a good example: look how they have had to move to the 3 litre engine on Ford's timescales. And of course there's no guarantee of fixed prices......
sorry, dont agree. Out sourcing engines on a fixed price with no capital outlay on development, testing, machinery and tooling seems like a good idea to me.
Then again, think it's great that TVR can produce their own engines...
JakeR said:
Didnt they have to move from mondeo to explorer engine (or something) at ford's insistance?
Nope.
Originally the Ford Duratec V6 was a 2.5... but capacity was increased to 3.0. It makes little sense for Ford to produce a 2.5 for customers AND a 3.0 for themselves... hence the reason Noble's now have a 3.0.
I fail to see why this is a bad thing though...
Isnt the 3R engine completely different to the early Nobles?
The only people the crated route seems to have worked for is Pagani and thats hardly a crated engine.
I think its good business for them in the long run to produce their own engines, just wish they would keep the AJP8 as well as the Speed Six.
The only people the crated route seems to have worked for is Pagani and thats hardly a crated engine.
I think its good business for them in the long run to produce their own engines, just wish they would keep the AJP8 as well as the Speed Six.
JakeR said:
I think TVR have suffered to some extent due to the apparently high number of warranty claims affecting their engines (not that I wish to start a thread on that subject)
Caterham & Westfield have always seemed to cope with bought in engines....
Maybe TVR don't want to be seen as yet another Caterham/Westfield/Noble type manufacturer, and are keen to do something a bit different?
There is probably no real reason why they have to design their own engines, but it's great that they do, and to me is one of the many reasons why I like TVR.
Maybe you should ask why they shouldn't design their own engines? I don't hear people asking the same question of Ferrari and Lamborghini...
ehasler said:
There is probably no real reason why they have to design their own engines, but it's great that they do, and to me is one of the many reasons why I like TVR.
I seem to recall a rather jingoistic PW not wanting to put a German manufactured lump (Rover V8 after BMW bought them).. so decided to build his own...
I think that it is great when it comes to racing in the GT Series and Le Mans TVR are able to say that it is a TVR which is also powered by TVR. A much more powerful statement than just building the chassis.
I believe that the S6 engine should take a prominent place in the modern TVR line up, but at risk of opening a very old can of worms, I still think that it would be nice to see (and hear) another V8 in the line up.
I believe that the S6 engine should take a prominent place in the modern TVR line up, but at risk of opening a very old can of worms, I still think that it would be nice to see (and hear) another V8 in the line up.
Podie said:
I seem to recall a rather jingoistic PW not wanting to put a German manufactured lump (Rover V8 after BMW bought them).. so decided to build his own...
Did you hear him say that or are you refering to the numerous articles that have appeared quoting him as having said that, when in fact he didn't.
I knew Peter (as a fellow TVRCC member) from before he bought TVR and, not long after he did so, I asked him about his longer-term plans. His ambition was to become the 'British Enzo Ferrari' with as many parts, including the engines, being made either in-house or exclusively for TVR. I knew of the plans for the AJP V8 before the Rover Group were bought by Britsh Aerospace, let alone BMW. A prototype AJP was shown in a Griffith at the 1992 motorshow, some 2 years before BMW bought Rover.
Anyhow, TVRs used somebody else's engines for the first 48 years of their existance and it was because they used the Ford V6 that I first bought mine. I've had Ford V8 and Rover V8 powered TVRs and my current project is one with a GM V8
Unfortunately, a lot of TVR owners don't yet have the confidence in TVR's ability to produce a reliable high-mileage road engine so they either stick to the older models or go elsewhere.
I did tell Peter that I'd get a T350 if TVR modified the chassis to allow me to fit an M5 engine, but his reply was drowned out by a T440 exhaust
>> Edited by Terminator on Monday 22 December 15:55
Terminator said:
I seem to recall a rather jingoistic PW not wanting to put a German manufactured lump (Rover V8 after BMW bought them).. so decided to build his own...
Did you hear him say that or are you refering to the numerous articles that have appeared quoting him as having said that, when in fact he didn't.
Now, now... no need to be facetious... I think we both know the answer to that.
Podie said:
Didnt they have to move from mondeo to explorer engine (or something) at ford's insistance?
Nope.
Originally the Ford Duratec V6 was a 2.5... but capacity was increased to 3.0. It makes little sense for Ford to produce a 2.5 for customers AND a 3.0 for themselves... hence the reason Noble's now have a 3.0.
I fail to see why this is a bad thing though...
OK, fair enough chap, I must have heard wrong, but I thought the 2 engines were substantially different, which may have affected other bits in the car (mounts, cooling, gear box, ecu, drivetrain, weight balance???)
Bl00dy great cars tho!!
JakeR said:
JakeR said:
Didnt they have to move from mondeo to explorer engine (or something) at ford's insistance?
Nope.
Originally the Ford Duratec V6 was a 2.5... but capacity was increased to 3.0. It makes little sense for Ford to produce a 2.5 for customers AND a 3.0 for themselves... hence the reason Noble's now have a 3.0.
I fail to see why this is a bad thing though...
OK, fair enough chap, I must have heard wrong, but I thought the 2 engines were substantially different, which may have affected other bits in the car (mounts, cooling, gear box, ecu, drivetrain, weight balance???)
Bl00dy great cars tho!!
Well they're both Duratec V6's... can't comment too much on the specifics between them, but I have been led to beleive that the 3.0 is a development of the 2.5....
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