RE: Racing Team Creates 7.0-litre V8 TVR Sagaris

[eldudereno]

jbi said:

LS series are incredibly efficient and compact for the displacement and power output.

Not to mention the huge aftermarket support for these engines and really it's a no-brainer

Well said.

I own a C5 Z06 and frequent corvetteforum.com a lot and can honestly say that I have never heard of any major engine problems. All you'll find is people with vacuum leaks due to rubber pipes with small splits, throttle bodies that need cleaning out, a leaking gasket on a diff etc etc. With a nice exhaust, a couple of cams, intake system and a supercharger which you can very easily fit yourself from a kit of parts, you're talking 650 bhp !!!

DonkeyApple said:

This is all fun but aren't there smarter options for V8s?
The LS is a little bit 'yee haa, Billy Bob and me are off to bang our mums''. 7 litres is just willy waving for people in houses on wheels isn't it?

Surely there is a more intelligent V8 that would deliver the same power but more smoothly and wisely?
Quite happy to be flamed but just find it a little pikey.

Why do you want an unnecessarily smarter but really meaning, more complex engine that is more likely to go wrong ? That's the whole point of using the Chevy V8's as it'll allow TVR to concentrate more time and money on stopping the door handles etc from falling off instead.

Edited by eldudereno on Tuesday 4th May 16:36

[DonkeyApple]

eldudereno said:

jbi said:

LS series are incredibly efficient and compact for the displacement and power output.

Not to mention the huge aftermarket support for these engines and really it's a no-brainer

Well said.

I own a C5 Z06 and frequent corvetteforum.com a lot and can honestly say that I have never heard of any major engine problems. All you'll find is people with vacuum leaks due to rubber pipes with small splits, throttle bodies that need cleaning out, a leaking gasket on a diff etc etc. With a nice exhaust, a couple of cams, intake system and a supercharger which you can very easily fit yourself from a kit of parts, you're talking 650 bhp !!!

DonkeyApple said:

This is all fun but aren't there smarter options for V8s?
The LS is a little bit 'yee haa, Billy Bob and me are off to bang our mums''. 7 litres is just willy waving for people in houses on wheels isn't it?

Surely there is a more intelligent V8 that would deliver the same power but more smoothly and wisely?
Quite happy to be flamed but just find it a little pikey.

Why do you want an unnecessarily smarter but really meaning, more complex engine that is more likely to go wrong ? That's the whole point of using the Chevy V8's as it'll allow TVR to concentrate more time and money on stopping the door handles etc from falling off instead.

Edited by eldudereno on Tuesday 4th May 16:36

Not sure. The engine seems fine in a truck ( I have one form in my van) but odd, to me, in a small English sportscar. 7L to obtain 550bhp seems very lazy and clumsy. I'm aware that it's very tuneable and cheap to work on etc, and that's good for cheap workers' sportscars in the US but it's a little too 'socialist' for me.

I just would have thought that in the UK we could think of something a little more elegant rather than standing on the street corner waving an enormous rubber dildo at everyone and shouting 'look at me' in a Cockney accent.

[Stig]

DonkeyApple said:

I just would have thought that in the UK we could think of something a little more elegant rather than standing on the street corner waving an enormous rubber dildo at everyone and shouting 'look at me' in a Cockney accent.

What - like a Merlin?

[G20RG B]

braders said:

If my sp6 gives any probs thats the route i plan to take

I'll join you on that Paul,

However 27K miles so far on the SP6 and it is going better than ever...

If it does go Bang then I'm afraid it'll be tucked up in the Garage until I can find the funds

George

(dont know how the angry face got there!!)

Edited by G20RG B on Tuesday 4th May 17:52

[sidewayz]

dinkel said:

Was in a 500+ brake R33 Skyline last weekend and it made me think: turboed straight 6 in a Sagaris would make more sense than a huge V8.

Am I alone here?

Nope,I would say you are spot on dinkel. The heats a killer though apparantly-supercharging is doable. Not against Yankee v8's at all but prefer to keep mine a six.

Edited by sidewayz on Tuesday 4th May 17:27

[900T-R]

dinkel said:

Was in a 500+ brake R33 Skyline last weekend and it made me think: turboed straight 6 in a Sagaris would make more sense than a huge V8.

Am I alone here?

Have you had a look at both engines? Compared to the compact LSx V8, the Nissan straight six is one hell of a boat anchor. And indeed, you don't want the heat of turbo installations in a small fibreglass car. Heck, we even remove the cats if possible to keep temps a bit more bearable for all the rubber 'n plastic bits in there...

[V8 GRF]

DonkeyApple said:

This is all fun but aren't there smarter options for V8s?

The LS is a little bit 'yee haa, Billy Bob and me are off to bang our mums''. 7 litres is just willy waving for people in houses on wheels isn't it?

Surely there is a more intelligent V8 that would deliver the same power but more smoothly and wisely?

Quite happy to be flamed but just find it a little pikey.

Problem with the 'smarter options' is that they're expensive and difficult to obtain in the first place, then the myriad of electronic systems is a nightmare to integrate and finally the upgrade path and aftermarket market is non existant or prohibitively expensive.

I hate to admit it but the 'yee haa' attitude of the low cost 'bang for bucks', 'off the shelf' availability and the sheer tunability at sensible prices of the LS engines fits exactly in the profile of what TVR stood for.

[900T-R]

V8 GRF said:

DonkeyApple said:

This is all fun but aren't there smarter options for V8s?

The LS is a little bit 'yee haa, Billy Bob and me are off to bang our mums''. 7 litres is just willy waving for people in houses on wheels isn't it?

Surely there is a more intelligent V8 that would deliver the same power but more smoothly and wisely?

Quite happy to be flamed but just find it a little pikey.

Problem with the 'smarter options'...

is that they're not so smart in a lightweight sports car what with all the width, weight, inertia and friction losses from four cams, variable valve trains and other gubbins up top. There's a reason the venerable RV8 was so popular for so long in low volume sports cars... The LSx may be basic in configuration but it's rather advanced in its execution, is compact, scores well at specific power for its weight and specific fuel consumption and has proper racing pedigree.

Also what sets the dynamic proposition of the most dramatic TVRs apart is simply having a really big engine in a small, lightweight, wieldy package - putting an LS1 in a Sag is just about the ultimate expression I can think of.

Edited by 900T-R on Tuesday 4th May 18:29

[Rob_the_Sparky]

V8 GRF said:

DonkeyApple said:

This is all fun but aren't there smarter options for V8s?

The LS is a little bit 'yee haa, Billy Bob and me are off to bang our mums''. 7 litres is just willy waving for people in houses on wheels isn't it?

Surely there is a more intelligent V8 that would deliver the same power but more smoothly and wisely?

Quite happy to be flamed but just find it a little pikey.

Problem with the 'smarter options' is that they're expensive and difficult to obtain in the first place, then the myriad of electronic systems is a nightmare to integrate and finally the upgrade path and aftermarket market is non existant or prohibitively expensive.

I hate to admit it but the 'yee haa' attitude of the low cost 'bang for bucks', 'off the shelf' availability and the sheer tunability at sensible prices of the LS engines fits exactly in the profile of what TVR stood for.

Personally I think many people confuse "complicated" with "good". Who cares how complex an engine is or what capacity it is? This isn't a competition... We are looking for the performance of the engine versus its size and weight. If you can get the same result from a larger capacity, simpler engine then that is better. Simpler = cheaper and more reliable.

Rob

[AngryApples]

Love it

Bit of cash, bit of imagination.........

[LukeBird]

Insane!

[MarkoNoTVR]

If God had a garage, this is what would be made there. Magnificent!!

[loose cannon]

yummy yummy yummy, i would like that sag to stir up my tummy

[Barkychoc]

I can't help thinking that if Peter Wheeler was still in charge then the Sag would have a V8 in it by now. Then everyone would say WOW!

[Ed.]

Rob_the_Sparky said:

V8 GRF said:

DonkeyApple said:

This is all fun but aren't there smarter options for V8s?

The LS is a little bit 'yee haa, Billy Bob and me are off to bang our mums''. 7 litres is just willy waving for people in houses on wheels isn't it?

Surely there is a more intelligent V8 that would deliver the same power but more smoothly and wisely?

Quite happy to be flamed but just find it a little pikey.

Problem with the 'smarter options' is that they're expensive and difficult to obtain in the first place, then the myriad of electronic systems is a nightmare to integrate and finally the upgrade path and aftermarket market is non existant or prohibitively expensive.

I hate to admit it but the 'yee haa' attitude of the low cost 'bang for bucks', 'off the shelf' availability and the sheer tunability at sensible prices of the LS engines fits exactly in the profile of what TVR stood for.

Personally I think many people confuse "complicated" with "good". Who cares how complex an engine is or what capacity it is? This isn't a competition... We are looking for the performance of the engine versus its size and weight. If you can get the same result from a larger capacity, simpler engine then that is better. Simpler = cheaper and more reliable.

Rob

BMW V10 weighs about the same as the LS9 too, more complex, similar power and no lighter.
LS9 in a sag sounds great, I just hope its not too popular, replacing all the speed sixes would be sad.

Edited by Ed. on Tuesday 4th May 20:52

[griffdude]

Ed. said:

Rob_the_Sparky said:

V8 GRF said:

DonkeyApple said:

This is all fun but aren't there smarter options for V8s?

The LS is a little bit 'yee haa, Billy Bob and me are off to bang our mums''. 7 litres is just willy waving for people in houses on wheels isn't it?

Surely there is a more intelligent V8 that would deliver the same power but more smoothly and wisely?

Quite happy to be flamed but just find it a little pikey.

Problem with the 'smarter options' is that they're expensive and difficult to obtain in the first place, then the myriad of electronic systems is a nightmare to integrate and finally the upgrade path and aftermarket market is non existant or prohibitively expensive.

I hate to admit it but the 'yee haa' attitude of the low cost 'bang for bucks', 'off the shelf' availability and the sheer tunability at sensible prices of the LS engines fits exactly in the profile of what TVR stood for.

Personally I think many people confuse "complicated" with "good". Who cares how complex an engine is or what capacity it is? This isn't a competition... We are looking for the performance of the engine versus its size and weight. If you can get the same result from a larger capacity, simpler engine then that is better. Simpler = cheaper and more reliable.

Rob

BMW V10 weighs about the same as the LS9 too, more complex, similar power and no lighter.

Didn't Mr Shelby bin the straight 6 from the AC Ace & install a yank V8 to create the Cobra?

[Al 450]

M400 NBL said:

Is there anyone who doesn't love the look of the Sag?

Yeah me, it's just a bit chav. The T350 was just right, a great step forward from the Griff and a natural evolution of the shape. Fake vents are a big no no for me on a Focus RS let alone a TVR.

I'd like to see someone smooth the wings on a Sag, get rid of the perspex spoiler and sort the splitters out. Still each to their own.

[GaragedV8]

DonkeyApple said:

eldudereno said:

jbi said:

LS series are incredibly efficient and compact for the displacement and power output.

Not to mention the huge aftermarket support for these engines and really it's a no-brainer

Well said.

I own a C5 Z06 and frequent corvetteforum.com a lot and can honestly say that I have never heard of any major engine problems. All you'll find is people with vacuum leaks due to rubber pipes with small splits, throttle bodies that need cleaning out, a leaking gasket on a diff etc etc. With a nice exhaust, a couple of cams, intake system and a supercharger which you can very easily fit yourself from a kit of parts, you're talking 650 bhp !!!

DonkeyApple said:

This is all fun but aren't there smarter options for V8s?
The LS is a little bit 'yee haa, Billy Bob and me are off to bang our mums''. 7 litres is just willy waving for people in houses on wheels isn't it?

Surely there is a more intelligent V8 that would deliver the same power but more smoothly and wisely?
Quite happy to be flamed but just find it a little pikey.

Why do you want an unnecessarily smarter but really meaning, more complex engine that is more likely to go wrong ? That's the whole point of using the Chevy V8's as it'll allow TVR to concentrate more time and money on stopping the door handles etc from falling off instead.

Edited by eldudereno on Tuesday 4th May 16:36

Not sure. The engine seems fine in a truck ( I have one form in my van) but odd, to me, in a small English sportscar. 7L to obtain 550bhp seems very lazy and clumsy. I'm aware that it's very tuneable and cheap to work on etc, and that's good for cheap workers' sportscars in the US but it's a little too 'socialist' for me.

I just would have thought that in the UK we could think of something a little more elegant rather than standing on the street corner waving an enormous rubber dildo at everyone and shouting 'look at me' in a Cockney accent.

Questions for you: Do you really? Are you sure your not mistaking an old SBC for an LS engine? In any case even if you do have a truck LSx unless it has an aftermarket engine or pgrades what you would have is a Vortec V8, everywhere that matters is different between yours and an LS7.

[DonkeyApple]

GaragedV8 said:

DonkeyApple said:

eldudereno said:

jbi said:

LS series are incredibly efficient and compact for the displacement and power output.

Not to mention the huge aftermarket support for these engines and really it's a no-brainer

Well said.

I own a C5 Z06 and frequent corvetteforum.com a lot and can honestly say that I have never heard of any major engine problems. All you'll find is people with vacuum leaks due to rubber pipes with small splits, throttle bodies that need cleaning out, a leaking gasket on a diff etc etc. With a nice exhaust, a couple of cams, intake system and a supercharger which you can very easily fit yourself from a kit of parts, you're talking 650 bhp !!!

DonkeyApple said:

This is all fun but aren't there smarter options for V8s?
The LS is a little bit 'yee haa, Billy Bob and me are off to bang our mums''. 7 litres is just willy waving for people in houses on wheels isn't it?

Surely there is a more intelligent V8 that would deliver the same power but more smoothly and wisely?
Quite happy to be flamed but just find it a little pikey.

Why do you want an unnecessarily smarter but really meaning, more complex engine that is more likely to go wrong ? That's the whole point of using the Chevy V8's as it'll allow TVR to concentrate more time and money on stopping the door handles etc from falling off instead.

Edited by eldudereno on Tuesday 4th May 16:36

Not sure. The engine seems fine in a truck ( I have one form in my van) but odd, to me, in a small English sportscar. 7L to obtain 550bhp seems very lazy and clumsy. I'm aware that it's very tuneable and cheap to work on etc, and that's good for cheap workers' sportscars in the US but it's a little too 'socialist' for me.

I just would have thought that in the UK we could think of something a little more elegant rather than standing on the street corner waving an enormous rubber dildo at everyone and shouting 'look at me' in a Cockney accent.

Questions for you: Do you really? Are you sure your not mistaking an old SBC for an LS engine? In any case even if you do have a truck LSx unless it has an aftermarket engine or pgrades what you would have is a Vortec V8, everywhere that matters is different between yours and an LS7.

Van = last Overfinch built 4 years ago.

[DonkeyApple]

Stig said:

DonkeyApple said:

I just would have thought that in the UK we could think of something a little more elegant rather than standing on the street corner waving an enormous rubber dildo at everyone and shouting 'look at me' in a Cockney accent.

What - like a Merlin?

Ideal for quick jaunts into Europe