Melling Hellcat
Discussion
JonRB said:
I know Wikipedia isn't a definitive source of info, but on valvetrain it says
"Depending on the design used, the valves are actuated directly by a rocker arm, finger or bucket tappet. Overhead camshaft engines use fingers or bucket tappets"
So from that I assume this isn't some unique idea invented just for the S6 engine? So it's not beyond the bounds of plausibility that RG could have developed it independently.
The prototype FFF engine I first saw some 4 years ago, it started out life as an "insert" in the original S6 head. After that it was developed into a full cylinder head."Depending on the design used, the valves are actuated directly by a rocker arm, finger or bucket tappet. Overhead camshaft engines use fingers or bucket tappets"
So from that I assume this isn't some unique idea invented just for the S6 engine? So it's not beyond the bounds of plausibility that RG could have developed it independently.
Edited by JonRB on Monday 31st January 22:14
The reason it took so long for the first FFF to be out there, is that they had the development done from scratch. The FFF2-head will make this even more clear...
JR said:
JonRB said:
JR said:
I guess that you're unaware of recent court activity then.
Yup, I am indeed unaware. It's all a very sad end to the AJP story really, similar to the car company itself. Then FFF2 came out ...
best read I have had for quite some time.
Very imteresting.
rev-erend said:
JR said:
JonRB said:
JR said:
I guess that you're unaware of recent court activity then.
Yup, I am indeed unaware. It's all a very sad end to the AJP story really, similar to the car company itself. Then FFF2 came out ...
best read I have had for quite some time.
Very imteresting.
Incidentally, although the scanned and posted solicitor's letter isn't clearly marked "Without Prejudice", I'd be surprised if it were intended for publication on a website.
JonRB said:
rev-erend said:
JR said:
JonRB said:
JR said:
I guess that you're unaware of recent court activity then.
Yup, I am indeed unaware. It's all a very sad end to the AJP story really, similar to the car company itself. Then FFF2 came out ...
best read I have had for quite some time.
Very imteresting.
cuneus said:
Yes interesting to see that the whole thing has disappeared
IIRC it was a customer of Autocraft whose engine had fallen to bits and an Independent Engineers Report
My memory is weak but wasn't this the company where 2 or 3 PHers paid 30K for really bad engines and were on the forums being seriously aggressive defending the product? Maybe 4/5 years ago?IIRC it was a customer of Autocraft whose engine had fallen to bits and an Independent Engineers Report
DonkeyApple said:
cuneus said:
Yes interesting to see that the whole thing has disappeared
IIRC it was a customer of Autocraft whose engine had fallen to bits and an Independent Engineers Report
My memory is weak but wasn't this the company where 2 or 3 PHers paid 30K for really bad engines and were on the forums being seriously aggressive defending the product? Maybe 4/5 years ago?IIRC it was a customer of Autocraft whose engine had fallen to bits and an Independent Engineers Report
As I recall....
There were many who promoted Autocraft as the answer to the S6 problems. One person started the ball rolling (a cerb owner), others jumped on board.
They also sucked in some AJP customers.
At least one or two of the customers were regularly defensive against the cynicism etc that came from these pages.
Unfortunately for everyone involved it didnt work out. It was a well intentioned venture that didnt work out. It was a bumpy ride and Autocraft didnt come out of it well. Some customers wasted significant amounts of money with them, particuarly one or two S6 guys and one AJP person (the 1000 bhp plus project).
DonkeyApple said:
cuneus said:
Yes interesting to see that the whole thing has disappeared
IIRC it was a customer of Autocraft whose engine had fallen to bits and an Independent Engineers Report
My memory is weak but wasn't this the company where 2 or 3 PHers paid 30K for really bad engines and were on the forums being seriously aggressive defending the product? Maybe 4/5 years ago?IIRC it was a customer of Autocraft whose engine had fallen to bits and an Independent Engineers Report
(As for A/C your memory is playing tricks but it did turn out to be an ugly affair.)
OK. Back onto topic.
Before the Hellcat car was really in production, his wife passed away, he moved to Portugal and while he proprted that the business would also be moving, like almost everything else ever issued from his mouth it was all wishful thinking/fantasy lala land stuff.
In fairness to a man I have very little time or respect for when you lose a partner, nothing else really matters all that much and some people just fade away.
Before the Hellcat car was really in production, his wife passed away, he moved to Portugal and while he proprted that the business would also be moving, like almost everything else ever issued from his mouth it was all wishful thinking/fantasy lala land stuff.
In fairness to a man I have very little time or respect for when you lose a partner, nothing else really matters all that much and some people just fade away.
I do love it when backups work :
External Condition
1.Headgasket leaking coolant down inlet and exhaust side of block.
2.Headgasket leaking oil from oil return on the back of the block.
3.Air con adjuster fitted the wrong way round.
4.Silicone sealant visible on all pipe unions.
5.Wrong servo adapters fitted (cerbera) causing imbalance to inlets 3&4.
6.O/S engine mount seized.
7.Red Rose pistons, but only standard injectors fitted.
8.Bellhousing bolt crossthreaded and clutch is oil contaminated.
9.Flywheel has been fitted with loctite.
Cylinder Head
10.Early type chain slipper which is worn and requires replacement.
11.Autocraft cams and followers fitted. Signs of semi-seizure marks to cam bearings.
12.Silicon sealant everywhere.
13.Valve shims are level or below level with the valve caps, making accurate valve clearances very difficult.
14.Shim on Cylinder Six is only 1.34mm thick - no future adjustment possible (nearly all shims are this thickness).
15.Head not torqued correctly.
16.Oil is passing between guide and head.
17.Bronze 8mm guides are fitted which have wear on the exhaust side.
18.Headgasket is copper and of a very early design which affected cooling of the rear cylinders.
Cylinder Block
19.Early type block with Craft alloy main cap conversion. Back 3 main caps were not torqued correctly.
20.No dowels are fitted to the caps.
21.No oilway modifications have been carried out to the block.
22.Crank tight to rotate in the block with uneven wear to the main bearings.
23.All six cylinder liners are badly marked due to piston thrust and debris in the cylinder getting trapped between piston and liner.
24.All liners have corrosion damage due to coolant sitting on top of the pistons for a period of time.
25.Liners 3&4 have 8 thou ovality.
26.No's 2,3,4,5 & 6 have dropped and a couple have rotated indicating poor interference fit between liner and block.
27.Oil pressure relief valve sticking.
28.Oil pump has been fitted with silicone - sign of silicon inside pump.
29.Pump rotors are badly marked with bearing debris.
30.Auxillary shaft mod has not been carried out.
31.Waterpump O rings have not been changed.
Pistons
32.JE pistons are fitted which appear to have red rose spec crown with 25thou stand off height. There is considerable thrust damage to all the pistons which have a very short skirt.
33.No. 6 piston has pre-detonation damage to the crown.
34.Three pistons have foeign particles stuck above the top compression ring.
Conrods
35.These are forged H section rods. No.4 big end has sustained some damage due to the bearing rotating in the housing. There is no bearing pinch on rods 2 & 5, so these rods will need sizing.
Crankshaft
36.Non cross-drilled cast crank fitted. Big end journals 1-5 are oval.
37.Big end No.4 has failed badly and spun in the rod.
38.All main and big end journals are very badly marked with bearings that are breaking up.
39.Crank will require grinding to minus .20thou min.
Autocraft are no longer building engines.
I believe the engine builders who "built" mine are available for hire at D&M Motosport, Henstridge.
A.
Edited by S6 SFX on Friday 14th September 21:55
External Condition
1.Headgasket leaking coolant down inlet and exhaust side of block.
2.Headgasket leaking oil from oil return on the back of the block.
3.Air con adjuster fitted the wrong way round.
4.Silicone sealant visible on all pipe unions.
5.Wrong servo adapters fitted (cerbera) causing imbalance to inlets 3&4.
6.O/S engine mount seized.
7.Red Rose pistons, but only standard injectors fitted.
8.Bellhousing bolt crossthreaded and clutch is oil contaminated.
9.Flywheel has been fitted with loctite.
Cylinder Head
10.Early type chain slipper which is worn and requires replacement.
11.Autocraft cams and followers fitted. Signs of semi-seizure marks to cam bearings.
12.Silicon sealant everywhere.
13.Valve shims are level or below level with the valve caps, making accurate valve clearances very difficult.
14.Shim on Cylinder Six is only 1.34mm thick - no future adjustment possible (nearly all shims are this thickness).
15.Head not torqued correctly.
16.Oil is passing between guide and head.
17.Bronze 8mm guides are fitted which have wear on the exhaust side.
18.Headgasket is copper and of a very early design which affected cooling of the rear cylinders.
Cylinder Block
19.Early type block with Craft alloy main cap conversion. Back 3 main caps were not torqued correctly.
20.No dowels are fitted to the caps.
21.No oilway modifications have been carried out to the block.
22.Crank tight to rotate in the block with uneven wear to the main bearings.
23.All six cylinder liners are badly marked due to piston thrust and debris in the cylinder getting trapped between piston and liner.
24.All liners have corrosion damage due to coolant sitting on top of the pistons for a period of time.
25.Liners 3&4 have 8 thou ovality.
26.No's 2,3,4,5 & 6 have dropped and a couple have rotated indicating poor interference fit between liner and block.
27.Oil pressure relief valve sticking.
28.Oil pump has been fitted with silicone - sign of silicon inside pump.
29.Pump rotors are badly marked with bearing debris.
30.Auxillary shaft mod has not been carried out.
31.Waterpump O rings have not been changed.
Pistons
32.JE pistons are fitted which appear to have red rose spec crown with 25thou stand off height. There is considerable thrust damage to all the pistons which have a very short skirt.
33.No. 6 piston has pre-detonation damage to the crown.
34.Three pistons have foeign particles stuck above the top compression ring.
Conrods
35.These are forged H section rods. No.4 big end has sustained some damage due to the bearing rotating in the housing. There is no bearing pinch on rods 2 & 5, so these rods will need sizing.
Crankshaft
36.Non cross-drilled cast crank fitted. Big end journals 1-5 are oval.
37.Big end No.4 has failed badly and spun in the rod.
38.All main and big end journals are very badly marked with bearings that are breaking up.
39.Crank will require grinding to minus .20thou min.
Autocraft are no longer building engines.
I believe the engine builders who "built" mine are available for hire at D&M Motosport, Henstridge.
A.
Edited by S6 SFX on Friday 14th September 21:55
nrick said:
Not wanting to pour petrol on a fire but who are rnd engineering and what is/was their involvement? I see they are still selling parts is the only reason I ask. Was it bought out of autocraft, etc.
thx
Neill
Judging by that web page they are friends of Graham Norton and in a real huff.thx
Neill
JR said:
DonkeyApple said:
OK. Back onto topic.
Before the Hellcat car was really in production, his wife passed away, he moved to Portugal and while he proprted that the business would also be moving, like almost everything else ever issued from his mouth it was all wishful thinking/fantasy lala land stuff.
In fairness to a man I have very little time or respect for when you lose a partner, nothing else really matters all that much and some people just fade away.
I agree with your sentiment there but you're talking about the Wildcat - the Griff type car. This thread was originally about the 250mph+ Hellcat.Before the Hellcat car was really in production, his wife passed away, he moved to Portugal and while he proprted that the business would also be moving, like almost everything else ever issued from his mouth it was all wishful thinking/fantasy lala land stuff.
In fairness to a man I have very little time or respect for when you lose a partner, nothing else really matters all that much and some people just fade away.
Here goes:
Just after Melling invented the Hellcat in his head, draw a picture of it and tell the world the millions of things that it would definitely do, his wife passed away, he moved to Portugal and while he proprted that the business would also be moving, like almost everything else ever issued from his mouth it was all wishful thinking/fantasy lala land stuff.
In fairness to a man I have very little time or respect for when you lose a partner, nothing else really matters all that much and some people just fade away.
JR said:
It shows at the very least that RG can be economical with the truth. I'm sure that you can read between the lines for the rest if you want to.
You mean I can read one side of a legal dispute between a company I have never dealt with and a company who I have dealt with for several years and have a good working relationship with, and immediately conclude that the latter must be liars in all things because of it? You do know how libel works, don't you? JR said:
Still don't understand your earlier concerns were, to which you have not replied.
My earlier concerns are that, as a Sagaris owner, I find the fact that Racing Green, STR8, TVR Power are trying to continue the development and refinement of the S6 encouraging and reassuring. If they were to be prevented from this by legal infighting then this would be a shame. You said that we would be no worse off. Quite - we'd be still stuck with chocolate finger followers and the constant worry of grenading engines.
When my next S6 engine goes bang, I will have two choices for my money - a rebuild to a proven more reliable spec (like the FFF2) or follow blackiepaul down the LS* engine transplant route. I would like to stick with the S6 as I think it is a good and characterful engine, just with flaws that some companies are seeking to eliminate - when they're not being sued for trying to do so.
Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 1st February 15:48
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