Veyron slower than expected?

Veyron slower than expected?

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Jim Campbell

Original Poster:

445 posts

221 months

Friday 17th October 2014
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Having recently see the video from EVOmax https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF2x3svjPjk&li... i thought the Veyron would be quite a bit faster than it was given it does a standing mile in 204mph and the Aventador does 189mph over the same distance.
Looking at those numbers i would have thought it's 207 at Bruntingthorpe compared with the Lambo's 204 seems a bit off. Anyone who attended know what the deal is?

SimNugget

580 posts

169 months

Friday 17th October 2014
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I recall one of the old Top Gear features was a drag race in Dubai, a McLaren F1 vs. Veyron. Both cars were very close until around 180moh when the Veyron moved ahead. The Veyron's advantage is at 200mph+ when the competitors run out of steam and it keeps pulling.

Xpuffin

9,209 posts

204 months

Friday 17th October 2014
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It could be the gearing, up to 200 it's optimised but from there to top speed is a long haul in the available gears.

Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Friday 17th October 2014
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Watched the video, wondering why the Dodge Viper wasn't there, would certainly have beaten a few.




smile

Jim Campbell

Original Poster:

445 posts

221 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
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Xpuffin said:
It could be the gearing, up to 200 it's optimised but from there to top speed is a long haul in the available gears.
Im not sure it is gearing or some other disadvantage at slow speeds. The bug's 0 to 60 time is quicker than the lambo and it's 0-300 time is about 5 seconds quicker.

The race against the F1 in dubai is a bit of a puzzle too.

NEFOC

415 posts

190 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
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The issue for the Veyron at Bruntingthorpe was the low drag setting. Unfortunately every time he took the first corner it cancelled and the wing popped up, adding a load of drag once on the runway. You really need to leave the corner at about 80 to get a good speed by the beam, so he couldn't get the right setup for the location.

To help compare the LaFerrari with the Veyron they ended up doing a standing start on the runway, which didn't allow either to get to their 207 max for the day, but did allow them to be compared off the line.

Hope that helps,

T

Jim Campbell

Original Poster:

445 posts

221 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
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NEFOC said:
The issue for the Veyron at Bruntingthorpe was the low drag setting. Unfortunately every time he took the first corner it cancelled and the wing popped up, adding a load of drag once on the runway. You really need to leave the corner at about 80 to get a good speed by the beam, so he couldn't get the right setup for the location.

To help compare the LaFerrari with the Veyron they ended up doing a standing start on the runway, which didn't allow either to get to their 207 max for the day, but did allow them to be compared off the line.

Hope that helps,

T
Ah i see. That makes sense. Thanks for the response.

lee c63

157 posts

123 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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Just as quick as the Nissan Quashquai that was there so not bad really

TB993tt

2,032 posts

240 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
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NEFOC said:
The issue for the Veyron at Bruntingthorpe was the low drag setting. Unfortunately every time he took the first corner it cancelled and the wing popped up, adding a load of drag once on the runway. You really need to leave the corner at about 80 to get a good speed by the beam, so he couldn't get the right setup for the location.

To help compare the LaFerrari with the Veyron they ended up doing a standing start on the runway, which didn't allow either to get to their 207 max for the day, but did allow them to be compared off the line.

Hope that helps,

T
This assertion that "You really need to leave the corner at about 80 to get a good speed by the beam" sounds completely credible doesn't it ? - it isn't.

Me and some fellow Brunters aficionados have spent quite a lot of time messing around trying various ways to increase top end at Brunters. Believe it or not the speed through the beams is more or less the same whether you come round that corner at 80 or whether you start from a standing start at the beginning of the main runway.
The reason for this is if you do a standing start at the beginning of the main runway you will be doing between 60 to 80mph by the time you are level with the exit of the (80mph or whatever) bend and more importantly you eventual top speed will not change by more than ~1mph if you are doing 60 or 80mph at the exit bend point.....

The reason is that the distance needed to reach 60 or 80 is very small compared to the distances needed to put on speed above say 300kph/186mph.

It takes the Veyron about 575 metres to go from 186mph to 207mph at Brunters, this is where the hp (and drag) are most in show.

Here is the stat which really puts in in perspective: To go from 205mph to 206mph takes only 0.85s but needs 75 metres of runway.

W8PMC

3,345 posts

237 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
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TB993tt said:
This assertion that "You really need to leave the corner at about 80 to get a good speed by the beam" sounds completely credible doesn't it ? - it isn't.

Me and some fellow Brunters aficionados have spent quite a lot of time messing around trying various ways to increase top end at Brunters. Believe it or not the speed through the beams is more or less the same whether you come round that corner at 80 or whether you start from a standing start at the beginning of the main runway.
The reason for this is if you do a standing start at the beginning of the main runway you will be doing between 60 to 80mph by the time you are level with the exit of the (80mph or whatever) bend and more importantly you eventual top speed will not change by more than ~1mph if you are doing 60 or 80mph at the exit bend point.....

The reason is that the distance needed to reach 60 or 80 is very small compared to the distances needed to put on speed above say 300kph/186mph.

It takes the Veyron about 575 metres to go from 186mph to 207mph at Brunters, this is where the hp (and drag) are most in show.

Here is the stat which really puts in in perspective: To go from 205mph to 206mph takes only 0.85s but needs 75 metres of runway.
Saved me a post as was going to say the exact same. This whole getting the entry to the straight spot on a carrying an extra couple of mph really makes little or no difference by the time you're hitting the timing beams.

My favourite was with Rob (DMS) when he 1st got his E60 M5 & naturally tuned it. At the time i had a Sported tuned C5 RS6 & no matter what we did we could not get any daylight between the 2 cars either on the start line launch or the speeds through the timing beams. In the end we tried a couple starting from the bottom of the main runway & we could see a few slight differences in performance at various points through the run (only very slight), but still the exact same speed though the beams, although we were 1-2mph slower than when starting from the regular start line.

NEFOC

415 posts

190 months

Friday 31st October 2014
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W8PMC said:
TB993tt said:
This assertion that "You really need to leave the corner at about 80 to get a good speed by the beam" sounds completely credible doesn't it ? - it isn't.

Me and some fellow Brunters aficionados have spent quite a lot of time messing around trying various ways to increase top end at Brunters. Believe it or not the speed through the beams is more or less the same whether you come round that corner at 80 or whether you start from a standing start at the beginning of the main runway.
Saved me a post as was going to say the exact same. This whole getting the entry to the straight spot on a carrying an extra couple of mph really makes little or no difference by the time you're hitting the timing beams.
I bow to your knowledge of the track, however the La Ferrari and Veyron both failed to match the 207 from a standing start, and were therefore quicker when entering the straight at 80, on the same day.

However, that isn't really the point. The reason the Veyron didn't go any quicker on the day was because the low downforce setting kept cancelling out during it's fastest runs (which happened to be when it used the corner).

I'm pretty sure the Veyron would have got a faster terminal speed than the LaFerrari if the beam was moved further down the runway (and the brakes would stop it before it hit the 747)

911Viking

299 posts

143 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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Toby is spot on here, it makes really no diff whether you carry speed through the bottom bend or start from the park area in the bend. Over the years I have tested there endlessly in 700-1.500bhp 911's, you will see 1-2 mph delta that's it. Only in lower powered cars ie up to 500/600'ish bhp cars it will give you an advantage carrying speed round the bend. The bigger power cars build speed so quickly that low speed accel requires very little distance.

Would have been surprised if the Veyron would have been quicker, shifts slower and loose significantly on power to weight. Actually I was a little surprised the LaF didn't build bigger distance on 0-300 kph. Eventually the Veyon will reach a higher Vmax since they are not geared for same purpose.

MADRod

448 posts

233 months

Monday 9th February 2015
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TB993tt said:
This assertion that "You really need to leave the corner at about 80 to get a good speed by the beam" sounds completely credible doesn't it ? - it isn't.

Me and some fellow Brunters aficionados have spent quite a lot of time messing around trying various ways to increase top end at Brunters. Believe it or not the speed through the beams is more or less the same whether you come round that corner at 80 or whether you start from a standing start at the beginning of the main runway.
The reason for this is if you do a standing start at the beginning of the main runway you will be doing between 60 to 80mph by the time you are level with the exit of the (80mph or whatever) bend and more importantly you eventual top speed will not change by more than ~1mph if you are doing 60 or 80mph at the exit bend point.....

The reason is that the distance needed to reach 60 or 80 is very small compared to the distances needed to put on speed above say 300kph/186mph.

It takes the Veyron about 575 metres to go from 186mph to 207mph at Brunters, this is where the hp (and drag) are most in show.

Here is the stat which really puts in in perspective: To go from 205mph to 206mph takes only 0.85s but needs 75 metres of runway.
Great to hear someone that knows Topspeed running at Brunters. Been gathering data for 13 years. If a fast accelerating car is slower from a standing start they need to sort out there launch skills because it should be going faster than a car coming around the bend like an out of control jelly as I see watching Vmax videos. If you use the bend to save transmission stress its slow in & use all the width of the road that way you can get straight & 100% on the throttle quicker & at a higher speed.
Heres a guy who knows how . 187mph before brow of the hill on a test run.
Click to view

PorscheGT4

21,146 posts

264 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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Veyron did 224 from a standing at on Sat in the wet.

DB89

781 posts

178 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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I do wonder how the veyron had different results racing two different laferraris at vmax?
Both races have clean starts but the laf pulls on the bug in one and the opposite happens in another. I've watched them a few times and there doesn't seem to be no obvious reason why the results are very different.

http://youtu.be/39AGYQBzWN4

http://youtu.be/zkqSVm__UIU

911Viking

299 posts

143 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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PorscheGT4 said:
Veyron did 224 from a standing at on Sat in the wet.
Saw that, wonder if it was a souped up Bug or a Bug SS... Done a few roll ons with standard Bugs and they are not that quick, I comfortably manage them in my lowest power setting doing 50-350kph. At lowest power settings I do 218/220 on Brunts. That's stopping in time to make the right hander which we have to on weekdays.

Anyway... Looks like Craig and AutoVivendi team again put up a great fun and safe day.

wtdoom

3,742 posts

207 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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DB89 said:
I do wonder how the veyron had different results racing two different laferraris at vmax?
Both races have clean starts but the laf pulls on the bug in one and the opposite happens in another. I've watched them a few times and there doesn't seem to be no obvious reason why the results are very different.

http://youtu.be/39AGYQBzWN4

http://youtu.be/zkqSVm__UIU
It's the low and high downforce modes . In the video where the ferrari beats it the veyron is in high downforce / drag mode

PorscheGT4

21,146 posts

264 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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911Viking said:
.. Done a few roll ons with standard Bugs and they are not that quick,

.
Not people people say that lol ESP as every hyper car and tuned car were at Vmax this event and the bug was still fastest.

I was happy to do 211 mph in 918, was a very impressive thing.

911Viking

299 posts

143 months

Thursday 2nd April 2015
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PorscheGT4 said:
911Viking said:
.. Done a few roll ons with standard Bugs and they are not that quick,

.
Not people people say that lol ESP as every hyper car and tuned car were at Vmax this event and the bug was still fastest.

I was happy to do 211 mph in 918, was a very impressive thing.
Therefore surprised seeing 224 on Brunts, the Bugs I have played with were far far behind on roll ons. But as Doom said, maybe its an aero setting thing, Bugs are extremely well engineered and far ahead of their time, but off course will loose to a 911 that can run power ratio one2one at full chat.

markbe

1,755 posts

225 months

Thursday 2nd April 2015
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Hi 911V,

Craig mentions that bug ran with all spoilers retracted and even all the brake ducting under the car closed.
The driver obviously new what he was doing so add in some 'top grade' fuel.
Not sure if they could turn the Turbos up as data is constantly relayed to the factory.

Mark.

Oh and the 918 did 204 mph through the traps.

Edited by markbe on Thursday 2nd April 17:32