Curious about Vitesses
Discussion
I keep finding myself drawn to adverts for Vitesse convertibles, but I know nothing about them.
I like the idea of a small, simple convertible to bimble around in and take on the occasional jaunt further afield.
Coming from a position of knowing nothing about the Vitesse in particular or Triumphs in general, what is the ownership experience like? For context, I have an '86 M5 that gets used as a weekend car which always just works. I have no issue with sensible maintenance, but I get bored pretty quickly with cars that are inherently unreliable.
So, what do I need to know, and what should I be looking out for? I'm also open to the idea of resto-mod cars. Is there any precedent for this with the Vitesse?
Thanks chaps
I like the idea of a small, simple convertible to bimble around in and take on the occasional jaunt further afield.
Coming from a position of knowing nothing about the Vitesse in particular or Triumphs in general, what is the ownership experience like? For context, I have an '86 M5 that gets used as a weekend car which always just works. I have no issue with sensible maintenance, but I get bored pretty quickly with cars that are inherently unreliable.
So, what do I need to know, and what should I be looking out for? I'm also open to the idea of resto-mod cars. Is there any precedent for this with the Vitesse?
Thanks chaps
The good news is that they're no inherently unreliable. But you do need to be prepared for regular servicing and maintenance.
Avoid the 2L Mk1 - truly evil handling b*****d of a car. The combination of swing-axle rear suspension and the extra weight of the six doesn't make for good handling. OK, sooner or later it will try to put you through a hedge, backwards. That's sorted on the 2L MK2 though, with improved rear suspension. On this model, expect to replace the rubber couplings in the driveshafts every few years though.
Engine wise, they're generally good robust units. It can be modified, or you can take a 2.5 engine from the TR6, modify the sump with a hammer so that it clears the Vitesse front cross-member, and drop this engine in without any real difficultly. If you're feeling brave, people have been known to add superchargers to both the 2.0 and 2.5 variants. However, the 4-bearing crank design does have it's limits - at a certain point the crank is just too weak to take any more power.
Watch for steering trunnions that have been 'lubricated' with grease - they need EP90 oil, not grease. If they're been greased, replace both king pins and trunnions as soon as you can, otherwise you'll be on a recovery truck with a wheel hanging off. Thankfully, these normally fail at low speed / full lock.
There's not really much to add. They're relatively simple cars without much to go wrong. Most have already had electronic ignition retro-fitted, and the standard carbs don't need much apart from new diaphragms every few years. I did many, many, miles in one as a student. Serviced regularly and well maintained it never let me down.
Avoid the 2L Mk1 - truly evil handling b*****d of a car. The combination of swing-axle rear suspension and the extra weight of the six doesn't make for good handling. OK, sooner or later it will try to put you through a hedge, backwards. That's sorted on the 2L MK2 though, with improved rear suspension. On this model, expect to replace the rubber couplings in the driveshafts every few years though.
Engine wise, they're generally good robust units. It can be modified, or you can take a 2.5 engine from the TR6, modify the sump with a hammer so that it clears the Vitesse front cross-member, and drop this engine in without any real difficultly. If you're feeling brave, people have been known to add superchargers to both the 2.0 and 2.5 variants. However, the 4-bearing crank design does have it's limits - at a certain point the crank is just too weak to take any more power.
Watch for steering trunnions that have been 'lubricated' with grease - they need EP90 oil, not grease. If they're been greased, replace both king pins and trunnions as soon as you can, otherwise you'll be on a recovery truck with a wheel hanging off. Thankfully, these normally fail at low speed / full lock.
There's not really much to add. They're relatively simple cars without much to go wrong. Most have already had electronic ignition retro-fitted, and the standard carbs don't need much apart from new diaphragms every few years. I did many, many, miles in one as a student. Serviced regularly and well maintained it never let me down.
There is a lot of information out there on what to look for when buying this family of cars. I've had my Herald 13/60 convertible for nearly 30 years!
Rust needs to be looked for. Many over the years were poorly repaired, plates welded over plates etc. Chassis outriggers can't be properly replaced with the body in situ unless you cut holes in the body for access.
A pet peeve of mine is freshly restored examples with awful body and door alignment, although its a bit of a job to get right and they weren't great from the factory apparently Check how the doors shut for example. Almost all of the body panels are single skin so repairs aren't too bad. I see quite a few Vitesses fitted with Herald seats. Vitesses had slightly fuller seats in the front. Getting the soft top to fit well and be waterproof is a bonus.
They can be fun and very reliable cars. I used them as daily drivers in the 90's. Parts are very readily available, but I do think the quality is poor with many parts, especially rubber components. The rubber doesn't seem to last more that a couple of years before splitting etc.
And yes the 2 litre MK1 can be lethal....I rolled a saloon off the A303 many years ago....ooops.....
Overdrive is a BIG plus too, makes longer runs more relaxing....but its all relative......
Rust needs to be looked for. Many over the years were poorly repaired, plates welded over plates etc. Chassis outriggers can't be properly replaced with the body in situ unless you cut holes in the body for access.
A pet peeve of mine is freshly restored examples with awful body and door alignment, although its a bit of a job to get right and they weren't great from the factory apparently Check how the doors shut for example. Almost all of the body panels are single skin so repairs aren't too bad. I see quite a few Vitesses fitted with Herald seats. Vitesses had slightly fuller seats in the front. Getting the soft top to fit well and be waterproof is a bonus.
They can be fun and very reliable cars. I used them as daily drivers in the 90's. Parts are very readily available, but I do think the quality is poor with many parts, especially rubber components. The rubber doesn't seem to last more that a couple of years before splitting etc.
And yes the 2 litre MK1 can be lethal....I rolled a saloon off the A303 many years ago....ooops.....
Overdrive is a BIG plus too, makes longer runs more relaxing....but its all relative......
OF,
You need go no further than the immediately adjacent thread: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... to find out how vastly overstated are the comments often repeated that Heralds, Vitesses and other 'small chassis' Triumphs with "swing axle" suspension were lethal death traps. The swing axle has disadvantages at the extremes of performance, which is why I've heavily modified mine, for racing. You are unlikely to find it a problem on the public road.
To add the other good advice above, find out where your local area Triumph club groups hold regular meetings, usually a pub, go along to have a look at some, and chat to the owners. The TSSC and Club Triumph have Area directories:-
http://www.tssc.org.uk/tssc/areas.asp
http://club.triumph.org.uk/theclub/localgroups
You might even persuade a member to go along with you if/when you find something you fancy.
Good luck!
John
You need go no further than the immediately adjacent thread: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... to find out how vastly overstated are the comments often repeated that Heralds, Vitesses and other 'small chassis' Triumphs with "swing axle" suspension were lethal death traps. The swing axle has disadvantages at the extremes of performance, which is why I've heavily modified mine, for racing. You are unlikely to find it a problem on the public road.
To add the other good advice above, find out where your local area Triumph club groups hold regular meetings, usually a pub, go along to have a look at some, and chat to the owners. The TSSC and Club Triumph have Area directories:-
http://www.tssc.org.uk/tssc/areas.asp
http://club.triumph.org.uk/theclub/localgroups
You might even persuade a member to go along with you if/when you find something you fancy.
Good luck!
John
Old rule about swing axles was that you NEVER, EVER brake on a bend. Actually it makes sense, because braking moves weight forwards, which makes it much easier for rear axle to 'jack up' and lose traction with the road.
In reality it's tough to stick to - if you go into a bend a bit too quick it's hard to overcome the natural response to brake. What you should do is to accelerate, but that takes some courage until you learn it.
In reality it's tough to stick to - if you go into a bend a bit too quick it's hard to overcome the natural response to brake. What you should do is to accelerate, but that takes some courage until you learn it.
Not so much the braking in a bend that's the problem, it's lifting off the throttle. Obviously you'd do that to brake but usually lifting off triggers enough weight transfer to cause problems (in any car of this period).
The advice for normal road cars back in the day was, if you think you're going in to the bend too fast never lift off, just floor it and close your eyes.
The advice for normal road cars back in the day was, if you think you're going in to the bend too fast never lift off, just floor it and close your eyes.
I had a "detachable hardtop"* Herald as a daily driver for a while. It was great fun in the summer with the roof off.
I swapped the engine and 5 speed gearbox from my wrecked 1967 Corolla - still only a1200 cc pushrod engine, but much lighter, although the diff ratio was all wrong **.
It subjectively handled better with less weight in the nose.
I swapped the engine and 5 speed gearbox from my wrecked 1967 Corolla - still only a1200 cc pushrod engine, but much lighter, although the diff ratio was all wrong **.
It subjectively handled better with less weight in the nose.
- I paid $5 for the Herald in unroadworthy condition, and found out the roof was just bolted on. That didn't last long.
- The engine was over-cammed, barely idled, and didn't pull cleanly below about 3,000 rpm, so hill-starts involved a fair bit of clutch slip. It was a long time ago, and I plead youth.
tapkaJohnD said:
A Herald is not a Vitesse! Few found their way to the US and even in production form 95BHP is wholly different to the puny 61 that the best Herald (13/60) ever offered!
John
I agree; although mine ended up with around 90-100 hp, a Vitesse would drive totally differently.John
However, you can't deny the similarities.
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