Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
f1nn said:
All of that ^^^^^ is fair enough.
1 - One genuine question though, do you think you would have tried winter tyres if, you had never once got stuck or become immobile?
2- Actually, another question. Assuming that both winters and summers "feel" roughly the same under normalish conditions, what sort of temperature would you say YOU notice an improvement on winters?
3- Also, you mention rear drive, have you experienced winters on FWD and RWD? And if so would you say one benefitted from winters more than the other?
I can try and answer these as they seem genuine questions rather than wind ups!1 - One genuine question though, do you think you would have tried winter tyres if, you had never once got stuck or become immobile?
2- Actually, another question. Assuming that both winters and summers "feel" roughly the same under normalish conditions, what sort of temperature would you say YOU notice an improvement on winters?
3- Also, you mention rear drive, have you experienced winters on FWD and RWD? And if so would you say one benefitted from winters more than the other?
1 - I have got stuck/immobile/had horrendous journeys in winter on summer tyres and winter tyres were a good way of reducing these problems. Having the wife abandoning her car a couple of miles away and having to walk at night isn't great. Me skidooing down a hill and having to use the kerb to slow me down (and blowing an expensive Dunlop Sport Maxx in doing so) was also an eye opener. First gear, ABS pulsing, and the speed is still gathering is frankly terrifying. One winter I helped my neighbour dig and push his summer tyred E90 down (!) our lane. It had so little traction that you could push the side of the boot with one hand and it would pivot on the spot. Once we finally got it shifted I was able to drive straight up the lane without hesitation. He had winter tyres the next year.
2 - On both my car and my wife's car the manufacturer winter tyre size is the same as the summer size so it's a good back to back comparison. Neither car uses runflats, so the winters are conventional tyres. There's a bit more road noise, and a slight loss in mpg, but unless you are really on it, there's very little difference. Yes, the tread blocks move a bit more, and the turn in is dulled as a result, but it makes no difference for my normal commute. I don't get stressed about the temperatures. I put them on at a convenient time around the clocks changing, and take them off at the other clock change, again when I've got a couple of hours spare. I've driven on winters in 20+ degrees and not worried. I've driven on summers in -5 and terrified myself.
3 - winters make the best improvement on RWD obviously, but they also benefit FWD and AWD too. The best example I can give you is the fact that my E90 on winters will stop, steer and go better than my Range Rover on "do everything M+S tyres". It's quite a scary thought that so many people have been brainwashed into believing that AWD is the answer to winter problems. Yes, it probably was when AWD meant a Land Rover on thin knobbly tyres, but in this day and age of X5s and RRS on 20" 30 profile summer tyres, it's simply a joke. 4 x 0 grip is 0 grip. I've driven past an XC90 with all four wheels spinning in my E90 without a slip.
These are my own personal experiences, based on where I live (high up in the Pennines), the driving I do (boring commute, general knocking about), and the cars I use (E90, Golf, Range Rover Classic). On this basis I will carry on running winters and summers as it works well for me. I completely understand that for other people they don't have the need or inclination, and that's fine.
If the weather is such that I would be perfectly fine on summers, I don't worry that I'm on winters. But if the weather turns, I am more than glad that my winters are on.
f1nn said:
All of that ^^^^^ is fair enough.
One genuine question though, do you think you would have tried winter tyres if, you had never once got stuck or become immobile?
Actually, another question. Assuming that both winters and summers "feel" roughly the same under normalish conditions, what sort of temperature would you say YOU notice an improvement on winters?
Also, you mention rear drive, have you experienced winters on FWD and RWD? And if so would you say one benefitted from winters more than the other?
I'd never got stuck or become immobile before. What worried me was that i had moved to a less urban location where the local authority rarely gritted the roads. 2-3 miles from the nearest shop, not really walkable as only option was an A road with no pavement - one car in the household needed to be mobile.One genuine question though, do you think you would have tried winter tyres if, you had never once got stuck or become immobile?
Actually, another question. Assuming that both winters and summers "feel" roughly the same under normalish conditions, what sort of temperature would you say YOU notice an improvement on winters?
Also, you mention rear drive, have you experienced winters on FWD and RWD? And if so would you say one benefitted from winters more than the other?
Yes i put winters on a volvo s60 D5. FWD and winters with a heavy lump of diesel engine meant great traction AND braking.
Braking is where you feel the biggest difference to be honest.
I had enough grip on the first set of Nokian winters (wrg2) that were fitted to an IS220D that you could stop on snow without the ABS kicking in.
I've currently got WRA3 nokians on my XKR. I drove back early on Sunday morning from the New Forest where it was -5 and sleeting most of the way up the m3/ a34. The extra tread depth and sipes in the tyre give you great confidence, and driving through deep water gives you none of the expected steering tug. Resistance to aquaplaning is also far better. Important on 285 section tyres.
There are other benefits - the different type of compound means you get a quieter ride and it's even a little more comfortable, despite the higher pressures you run (2-3psi extra is recommended) . They also wear far better than summer tyres at this time of year, and the fact that my Michelin PSS are sitting in the garage not being used means they will last far longer as well. Should get two- three years out of each set now that my mileage has reduced.
Overall, they are just a better tool for the job more of the time in winter. I'll swap them back in a few months time when it warms up.
RicksAlfas said:
Yes, it probably was when AWD meant a Land Rover on thin knobbly tyres, but in this day and age of X5s and RRS on 20" 30 profile summer tyres, it's simply a joke. 4 x 0 grip is 0 grip. I've driven past an XC90 with all four wheels spinning in my E90 without a slip.
My Father never used to use the Jag (Series 1) in the winter, and we used to run round in our Series IIa Landie, the grip was great, although I got it stuck a couple of times (no Locking on the Center Diff, so it could sit spinning opposite corners if it got into Deep snow), but i don't miss having to defrost the inside of the screen whilst on the go. Worst "Heaters" in the World.dtmpower said:
f1nn said:
How awesome does that look on steels!
Very ! Just needs some black marker pen on the balance weights and maybe a small spacer to push them out flush. 
SS7
shoestring7 said:
I might just do that. The balance weights are all opposite the valve, which is one of those modern BMW jobs with the temp/pressure sensors.
SS7
Out of interest, where did you source the steelies?SS7
I'm tempted to put winters on my M135i but don't fancy having that cash tied up on wheels....
Not that much cash in relation to the value of the car: I bought F21 type 381 17 oe alloys for £200 on ebay, almost new and they are designed to fit the 4pot Brembos, plus, as one of the official winter wheels are insurance compliant without declaration. Fitted Nokian D4 at £70 each so approx £500, will be worth about the same in two winters time as a package. A real no brainer.
nickfrog said:
Not that much cash in relation to the value of the car: I bought F21 type 381 17 oe alloys for £200 on ebay, almost new and they are designed to fit the 4pot Brembos, plus, as one of the official winter wheels are insurance compliant without declaration. Fitted Nokian D4 at £70 each so approx £500, will be worth about the same in two winters time as a package. A real no brainer.
I'd check that with your insurance. Last I heard you still had to declare, but as they're the recommended wheels they shouldn't bump your premium.Good point Jon although common sense has recently prevailed and many insurance companies do not require declaration anymore, including mine. More info here https://www.abi.org.uk/Insurance-and-savings/Produ...
nickfrog said:
Good point Jon although common sense has recently prevailed and many insurance companies do not require declaration anymore, including mine. More info here https://www.abi.org.uk/Insurance-and-savings/Produ...
For winter tyres. You've fitted different wheels, which is a modification. Common sense and insurance companies don't mix, and you don't want to be on the receiving end of their lawyers (I'm speaking from experience)
If in doubt, phone.
jon- said:
For winter tyres. You've fitted different wheels, which is a modification.
Common sense and insurance companies don't mix, and you don't want to be on the receiving end of their lawyers (I'm speaking from experience)
If in doubt, phone.
Common sense and insurance companies don't mix, and you don't want to be on the receiving end of their lawyers (I'm speaking from experience)
If in doubt, phone.
ABI said:
provided that the tyres are roadworthy and have been fitted in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions
Most car handbooks list a different size of wheel for winter tyres. Surely using that size of wheel counts as fitting in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions ? (and if you read the full list in the linked PDF, you'll find this phrase crops up over and over again : " provided the
winter tyres/wheels fitted are of no greater size or value than the tyres/wheels being replaced" )
marshalla said:
jon- said:
For winter tyres. You've fitted different wheels, which is a modification.
Common sense and insurance companies don't mix, and you don't want to be on the receiving end of their lawyers (I'm speaking from experience)
If in doubt, phone.
Common sense and insurance companies don't mix, and you don't want to be on the receiving end of their lawyers (I'm speaking from experience)
If in doubt, phone.
ABI said:
provided that the tyres are roadworthy and have been fitted in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions
Most car handbooks list a different size of wheel for winter tyres. Surely using that size of wheel counts as fitting in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions ? (and if you read the full list in the linked PDF, you'll find this phrase crops up over and over again : " provided the
winter tyres/wheels fitted are of no greater size or value than the tyres/wheels being replaced" )
TDS86 said:
shoestring7 said:
I might just do that. The balance weights are all opposite the valve, which is one of those modern BMW jobs with the temp/pressure sensors.
SS7
Out of interest, where did you source the steelies?SS7
I'm tempted to put winters on my M135i but don't fancy having that cash tied up on wheels....
The tyres are still 'coming in' - IME that takes a few hundred miles for winters, so can't really comment. They're noisier than the OE MPSSs and traction is reduced - but you'd expect that. No problems in the light snow at the weekend though.
SS7
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