Winter tyres vol 2

[jon-]

You've got some Yoko's in your stock size, but I'd stick with the Pirelli's

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Search/Size/295-40-21...

What about 275/45 R21? More choice - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Search/Size/275-45-21...

[Watchman]

Thanks - I missed the Yoko's. I'll take a closer look (on a bigger screen than my phone) tomorrow.

The 275s would likely leave the rims unprotected, or at least, *less* protected. I've had General Grabber ATs on my previous car for years (19 inch wheels) and they've been fabulous at protecting the wheels. I'd like some of that with the 21s.

I am considering getting some 20 inch wheels if I can get the same style, then I can try those Cooper Zeons with a nice high sidewall.

[blueg33]

Just fitted the winter wheels and tyres to my Evora. The rears are worn down to the high (4mm) wear indicators so a new pair of Yoko W-drives are on order. Thought about fitting something cheaper as these are £220 each, but decided to stick with Lotus recommendation, especially as I have the same on the front.

[Barchettaman]

Swapped to the winters this week, a bolt head sheared off as I was taking the summers off. The garage couldn't weld a nut to it. New hub required, €330 inc. labour.

It had better bloody snow in Frankfurt this year.

[krallicious]

Barchettaman said:

It had better bloody snow in Frankfurt this year.

It snowed on the Feldberg the other week. Have just dropped mine off to have the wheels changed over. 11C this morning

[jamieduff1981]

My old 3.0 AWD Jag X-Type is getting MOT'd at the moment ready for winter. This year I won't be skiting about in the XFR-S on snow and ice.

The X-Type has had its usual 18" wheels with 225/40ZR18 Michelin PS3s removed and some generic 5 spoke 16" rims fitted which just clear the calipers with a set of 205/55R16 Vredestein Snowtracs on. It looks stupid on those tiny little wheels and doughnut tyres, but probably more PH than its original wheels.

Still, I've no doubt it'll be very suitable for my driving around for work this winter.

[SWoll]

eztiger328 said:

Well the Michelin Alpin 5's are back on my car ready for another winter!

Had a bit of a torrential down pour around here a couple of days ago, It was fantastic blasting through all that standing water on the drive home from work while everyone else was crawling along.

You might want to take it a bit easier in future.. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/931.... Good in snow but not the best when standing water is involved apparently.

This does lead me to another thought about winters. If 99.9% of the other cars on the road aren't wearing them then just how much less likely are you to be involved in an accident? And if you're stuck in traffic behind all of the people without winters who are crawling along does it really make much difference?

Also, is there the usual issue of over-confidence coming into play as per people with 4x4's? Winters are obviously massively superior to summers in the snow and low temperatures but on sheet/black ice I'm assuming you still have to tip-toe along with everyone else?

smn159 said:

Some new winter Jinyu YW51's on a set of £70 eBay wheels went onto the Cooper S this afternoon. What could possibly go wrong?

Just in time from the look of it. The weather there looks awful.

Edited by SWoll on Monday 21st November 10:17

[jamieduff1981]

SWoll said:

You might want to take it a bit easier in future.. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/931.... Good in snow but not the best when standing water is involved apparently.

Speaking for myself, I don't like high speed differentials with everyone else anyway and so few modern tyres actually aquaplane at normal road speeds. It's not the ability to clear water that so much matters now, but visibility. There's a lot of spray about obscuring visibility in front and behind. Whilst almost everyone will have lights on, there's always some dhead who doesn't, and/or a crashed vehicle embedded in an Armco barrier with broken lights can suddenly materialise in in front of you out of the spray.

SWoll said:

This does lead me to another thought about winters. If 99.9% of the other cars on the road aren't wearing them then just how much less likely are you to be involved in an accident? And if you're stuck in traffic behind all of the people without winters who are crawling along does it really make much difference?

When crawling along, the biggest differentiator for me is that winter tyres still brake better than summer tyres in very cold conditions. You need to be careful with that because someone can still run up your backside on their summer tyres if you forget you can brake better than them. It is still useful though. More than once I've been driving along and spotted someone converging from a side road who is unable to stop at the approaching junction. My wife broke her back in one such collision on summer tyres in winter (she T-boned a Subaru which failed to give way - my wife couldn't slow down quick enough). On winter tyres, I've been able to pull up without too much drama. It doesn't help the person who slides across the junction into the verge on the other side, but at least my car isn't involved in the collision.

SWoll said:

Also, is there the usual issue of over-confidence coming into play as per people with 4x4's? Winters are obviously massively superior to summers in the snow and low temperatures but on sheet/black ice I'm assuming you still have to tip-toe along with everyone else?

You have to be careful, sure. On snow, they're vastly superior to summer tyres. On ice, you need to be careful, but winter tyres can find far more grip on some ice than summer tyres can. It depends on the exact ice at the time. You can't get complacent, but if you manage your energy well you can drive around on snow and ice far less marginally than you would be on summer tyres.

For qualification, I (still) live relatively far up in Scotland (AB53). It was a relatively dry -7deg C this morning with a lot of frost but not ice on the roads, and I drove the XFR-S to work on MPSS tyres. There's not a lot of grip to work with in those conditions. On light snow or ice, that car with those tyres is a real handful and inclines (up or down) are to be avoided. Hard, when you live on top of a hill. My S-Type, sold yesterday, the same basic platform as the XFR-S was a different car on MPSS versus Nokian WR A3 winters. It was every bit as skitish as the XF on slippery surfaces on the MPSS, and could be driven around without drama on the Nokians this time of year.

[FiF]

jamieduff1981 said:

SWoll said:

You might want to take it a bit easier in future.. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/931.... Good in snow but not the best when standing water is involved apparently.

Speaking for myself, I don't like high speed differentials with everyone else anyway and so few modern tyres actually aquaplane at normal road speeds. It's not the ability to clear water that so much matters now, but visibility. There's a lot of spray about obscuring visibility in front and behind. Whilst almost everyone will have lights on, there's always some dhead who doesn't, and/or a crashed vehicle embedded in an Armco barrier with broken lights can suddenly materialise in in front of you out of the spray.

SWoll said:

This does lead me to another thought about winters. If 99.9% of the other cars on the road aren't wearing them then just how much less likely are you to be involved in an accident? And if you're stuck in traffic behind all of the people without winters who are crawling along does it really make much difference?

When crawling along, the biggest differentiator for me is that winter tyres still brake better than summer tyres in very cold conditions. You need to be careful with that because someone can still run up your backside on their summer tyres if you forget you can brake better than them. It is still useful though. More than once I've been driving along and spotted someone converging from a side road who is unable to stop at the approaching junction. My wife broke her back in one such collision on summer tyres in winter (she T-boned a Subaru which failed to give way - my wife couldn't slow down quick enough). On winter tyres, I've been able to pull up without too much drama. It doesn't help the person who slides across the junction into the verge on the other side, but at least my car isn't involved in the collision.

SWoll said:

Also, is there the usual issue of over-confidence coming into play as per people with 4x4's? Winters are obviously massively superior to summers in the snow and low temperatures but on sheet/black ice I'm assuming you still have to tip-toe along with everyone else?

You have to be careful, sure. On snow, they're vastly superior to summer tyres. On ice, you need to be careful, but winter tyres can find far more grip on some ice than summer tyres can. It depends on the exact ice at the time. You can't get complacent, but if you manage your energy well you can drive around on snow and ice far less marginally than you would be on summer tyres.

For qualification, I (still) live relatively far up in Scotland (AB53). It was a relatively dry -7deg C this morning with a lot of frost but not ice on the roads, and I drove the XFR-S to work on MPSS tyres. There's not a lot of grip to work with in those conditions. On light snow or ice, that car with those tyres is a real handful and inclines (up or down) are to be avoided. Hard, when you live on top of a hill. My S-Type, sold yesterday, the same basic platform as the XFR-S was a different car on MPSS versus Nokian WR A3 winters. It was every bit as skitish as the XF on slippery surfaces on the MPSS, and could be driven around without drama on the Nokians this time of year.

Agreed with all that, in essence I tend to drive at the pace that other road users are expecting, so in essence that means no big speed differentials. Living in the sticks it does mean that you have a choice, trundle along in the camel train or heading off onto back roads which are generally clear as everyone else has taken the main roads.

Yes it can get easy to get over confident, but drive to the conditions and there is a bigger margin of safety. Related to T junctions there is the corollary to the cases cited above where you are on the minor road, you are able to stop, and when the decision made to go you can get out and on your way reasonably adroitly.

[SWoll]

jamieduff1981 said:

SWoll said:

You might want to take it a bit easier in future.. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/931.... Good in snow but not the best when standing water is involved apparently.

Speaking for myself, I don't like high speed differentials with everyone else anyway and so few modern tyres actually aquaplane at normal road speeds. It's not the ability to clear water that so much matters now, but visibility. There's a lot of spray about obscuring visibility in front and behind. Whilst almost everyone will have lights on, there's always some dhead who doesn't, and/or a crashed vehicle embedded in an Armco barrier with broken lights can suddenly materialise in in front of you out of the spray.

SWoll said:

This does lead me to another thought about winters. If 99.9% of the other cars on the road aren't wearing them then just how much less likely are you to be involved in an accident? And if you're stuck in traffic behind all of the people without winters who are crawling along does it really make much difference?

When crawling along, the biggest differentiator for me is that winter tyres still brake better than summer tyres in very cold conditions. You need to be careful with that because someone can still run up your backside on their summer tyres if you forget you can brake better than them. It is still useful though. More than once I've been driving along and spotted someone converging from a side road who is unable to stop at the approaching junction. My wife broke her back in one such collision on summer tyres in winter (she T-boned a Subaru which failed to give way - my wife couldn't slow down quick enough). On winter tyres, I've been able to pull up without too much drama. It doesn't help the person who slides across the junction into the verge on the other side, but at least my car isn't involved in the collision.

SWoll said:

Also, is there the usual issue of over-confidence coming into play as per people with 4x4's? Winters are obviously massively superior to summers in the snow and low temperatures but on sheet/black ice I'm assuming you still have to tip-toe along with everyone else?

You have to be careful, sure. On snow, they're vastly superior to summer tyres. On ice, you need to be careful, but winter tyres can find far more grip on some ice than summer tyres can. It depends on the exact ice at the time. You can't get complacent, but if you manage your energy well you can drive around on snow and ice far less marginally than you would be on summer tyres.

For qualification, I (still) live relatively far up in Scotland (AB53). It was a relatively dry -7deg C this morning with a lot of frost but not ice on the roads, and I drove the XFR-S to work on MPSS tyres. There's not a lot of grip to work with in those conditions. On light snow or ice, that car with those tyres is a real handful and inclines (up or down) are to be avoided. Hard, when you live on top of a hill. My S-Type, sold yesterday, the same basic platform as the XFR-S was a different car on MPSS versus Nokian WR A3 winters. It was every bit as skitish as the XF on slippery surfaces on the MPSS, and could be driven around without drama on the Nokians this time of year.

All fair points and thanks for taking the time to respond. I can certainly see the value of them up where you are (as an example near me this morning it was 6deg C and wet) and would also assume the percentage of people running them is far higher than in the Midlands or down south so a more level playing field out on the roads.

I do worry after reading a lot of the posts on these threads that the level of complacency is quite high among winter tyre advocates, almost as if many feel a need to prove a point by diving everywhere at similar speeds they might go in the dry. Totally agree about the speed differential, zipping around whilst everyone else is crawling and focused on the conditions sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

[jamieduff1981]

Ah yes. Stopping at a T-junction on summer tyres is well and good, but not being able to move off smartly can be dangerous if you find yourself polishing the road half in/half out of the junction with other traffic that used to be a long way off when you decided to go now getting uncomfortably close!

[nickfrog]

SWoll said:

I do worry after reading a lot of the posts on these threads that the level of complacency is quite high among winter tyre advocates

I reckon winter tyres users are not complacent and only use a fraction of the added grip, they keep the rest for emergencies and situations where traction is a safety tool as described by Jamie. But there are knobs in all walk of life, irrespective of rubber compound

[T1berious]

Just swapped over to the winters and had them replaced with Conti Winter Contact SSR. In this mornings torrential rain they fared very well.

On the topic of 4x4 over confidence, Father in Law recently got an xDrive 435d, told him we were putting the winter's on he was "don't have to worry about it, xDrive". I told him that the run flats will be next to useless as it drops below 5°C, they'll go rock hard and xDrive won't help much in the snow (they live in Scotland).

I might as well have been speaking Turkish....



Seriously thinking of getting winter wheels / tyres for the Zed.

[jon-]

On the subject on whether the Michelin CrossClimates work "well enough" in snow and ice, I drove an A3 to the alps and filmed it.

https://youtu.be/YO0zyQh2l3M

Genuinely impressed. Though I feel I'm going to get torn apart here

[jamieduff1981]

T1berious said:

Just swapped over to the winters and had them replaced with Conti Winter Contact SSR. In this mornings torrential rain they fared very well.

On the topic of 4x4 over confidence, Father in Law recently got an xDrive 435d, told him we were putting the winter's on he was "don't have to worry about it, xDrive". I told him that the run flats will be next to useless as it drops below 5°C, they'll go rock hard and xDrive won't help much in the snow (they live in Scotland).

I might as well have been speaking Turkish....



Seriously thinking of getting winter wheels / tyres for the Zed.

Your FIL will have fun trying to stop for a junction at the bottom of a hill on his runflat summers Maybe he can do a 180deg flick and use his XDrive as reverse thrust to stop?

[Freds]

T1berious said:

Just swapped over to the winters and had them replaced with Conti Winter Contact SSR. In this mornings torrential rain they fared very well.

On the topic of 4x4 over confidence, Father in Law recently got an xDrive 435d, told him we were putting the winter's on he was "don't have to worry about it, xDrive". I told him that the run flats will be next to useless as it drops below 5°C, they'll go rock hard and xDrive won't help much in the snow (they live in Scotland).

I might as well have been speaking Turkish....



Seriously thinking of getting winter wheels / tyres for the Zed.

He will have a shock with x-drive on summer rubber when the snow falls My neighbour, a rural Vet bought an X35d last winter and couldn't get up a moderate incline in an inch of snow, to his embarrassment I towed him up to the main road (half a mile or so) in my Outback. He bought a set of winters later that week.

[anonymous-user]

jon- said:

On the subject on whether the Michelin CrossClimates work "well enough" in snow and ice, I drove an A3 to the alps and filmed it.

https://youtu.be/YO0zyQh2l3M

Genuinely impressed. Though I feel I'm going to get torn apart here

interesting, can i ask you paid for the trip? Was it sponsored by Michelin as it felt like an advert?

[jon-]

The Spruce goose said:

jon- said:

On the subject on whether the Michelin CrossClimates work "well enough" in snow and ice, I drove an A3 to the alps and filmed it.

https://youtu.be/YO0zyQh2l3M

Genuinely impressed. Though I feel I'm going to get torn apart here

interesting, can i ask you paid for the trip? Was it sponsored by Michelin as it felt like an advert?

Sadly the stack of receipts on my desk indicate my bank account took most of the hit on this one Michelin supplied the tyres and rented me a car to do the drive as my M3 wasn't suitable, the rest of the costs were on me. Fortunately the guys filmed for free (they're friends) on the condition we got an extra day out there to do photography.

I'm genuinely impressed with the tyre, but you're right, with retrospect I was a little overly gushy in the video. I'm not much of a presenter so I think what I lack in ability, I make up for in repeating the same words over and over Also that was the first editing I've ever done properly.

I hope time will improve things

[jamieduff1981]

jon- said:

The Spruce goose said:

jon- said:

On the subject on whether the Michelin CrossClimates work "well enough" in snow and ice, I drove an A3 to the alps and filmed it.

https://youtu.be/YO0zyQh2l3M

Genuinely impressed. Though I feel I'm going to get torn apart here

interesting, can i ask you paid for the trip? Was it sponsored by Michelin as it felt like an advert?

Sadly the stack of receipts on my desk indicate my bank account took most of the hit on this one Michelin supplied the tyres and rented me a car to do the drive as my M3 wasn't suitable, the rest of the costs were on me. Fortunately the guys filmed for free (they're friends) on the condition we got an extra day out there to do photography.

I'm genuinely impressed with the tyre, but you're right, with retrospect I was a little overly gushy in the video. I'm not much of a presenter so I think what I lack in ability, I make up for in repeating the same words over and over Also that was the first editing I've ever done properly.

I hope time will improve things

It wasn't that bad. I've seen far cringier things on Youtube. It was just the cruising in Lane 3 with nothing to your left that annoyed me

[jon-]

Only on PH 7am-ish Sunday morning and we were on the right to get the shots, I wasn't holding anyone up. I'm super anal about keeping ot the left!