Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
popeyewhite said:
nickfrog said:
You might then as well have winters to maximise the use of the car when the temp is low so that you don't have to "drive to the conditions" as much (and therefore keep the same safety net) and not get stuck as a bonus.
My point is the conditions only occur for about 3 weeks a year at most, for most. As they mess with a performance car's handling then why bother? If the weather was truly awful I wouldn't go out, and nor should anyone else really, winters or not. FiF said:
popeyewhite said:
nickfrog said:
You might then as well have winters to maximise the use of the car when the temp is low so that you don't have to "drive to the conditions" as much (and therefore keep the same safety net) and not get stuck as a bonus.
My point is the conditions only occur for about 3 weeks a year at most, for most. As they mess with a performance car's handling then why bother? If the weather was truly awful I wouldn't go out, and nor should anyone else really, winters or not. I live on top of a hill in rural Aberdeenshire. We are self employed and have bills to pay. The businesses depend on leaving the house. My daughters are school age, and for the sake of their education they need to go to school. Pretty much all my daughter's friends from school likewise are a drive away.
It's great for some if when there's some weather they just stay indoors, but for those of us actually using the cars all year round and where coming home to find a slope frozen over can't just result in a "never mind, I'll go home next week when it's thawed" type response, the car needs to be fit for purpose. I can't get up this hill on Michelin Pilot Super Sports when it's icy or snowy. No amount of driving to conditions can find enough grip to propel the car up the slope. Incidently it just vibrates its brake pedal with no actual reduction in speed going downhill. On Nokian WR A3s it's simply not an issue, which is a price worth paying for a blunting of steering response.
Covering relatively high milages in rural areas, the road conditions can change drastically from one end of a journey to the next.
Absolutely everything is a compromise. Saying "I don't compromise" is not an intelligent statement. UHP summer tyres are a compromise on a dry summer's day. You'd be less compromised running road legal semi-slicks on a warm dry day. UHP summer tyres are seriously compromised when it's cold. Their large treadblocks designed for rigidity under hard cornering fail to grip wintery road contaminants and their rubber compound designed for high speed cruising on hot days goes rock hard in freezing temperatures.
Winter tyres are also a compromise. To be soft enough to still grip when it's cold, they overheat when it's hot. Their small tread blocks which work well on wintery road surfaces, snow, mud, salt etc are too wobbly for summer use.
Absolutely every tyre is a compromise. The user should select tyres which will be used in their optimum operating range to suit the driving they need to do. Winter tyres work well in winter, but are poor in summer. Summer tyres are terrible in winter, but are great in summer.
What I will say to popeye's credit however is that I wish everyone on summer tyres would just stay off the road in wintery conditions. It would save me a lot of time towing people out of fields and up hills in the local area, because I'm soft and always feel inclined to help people.
HotJambalaya said:
How old would be the oldest set of winters someone would buy be?
I'm trying to buy an old set of steel wheels on ebay, and as a bonus lots of people are selling them with winters on. Good tread, but no one is posting decent photos of DOT numbers. One that I did manage to see was 2010.
I know that winter technology is rapidly evolving so in addition to age concerns I'd be a little worried that tyres more then a few years old are nowhere near as good as newer ones.
It's an interesting question.I'm trying to buy an old set of steel wheels on ebay, and as a bonus lots of people are selling them with winters on. Good tread, but no one is posting decent photos of DOT numbers. One that I did manage to see was 2010.
I know that winter technology is rapidly evolving so in addition to age concerns I'd be a little worried that tyres more then a few years old are nowhere near as good as newer ones.
I swapped onto my winters on the MINI last weekend. This is a set of tyres out of which I've already had 2, maybe 3, seasons. They're running on standard MINI 15" alloys and we so good in comparison to the original runflats on 16" rims that I even considered running them all year round.
However, having just swapped, it's like driving around on a couple of bars of soap. The performance has really gone off. I'm going to give them another week or two to see if they need a couple of heat cycles or something, but they feel very different indeed.
FiF said:
You're lucky you don't have to turn out, but saying no one else should really is a perfect example of applying your own circumstances as being valid for every other person in the entire nation.
Good grief man get a grip! Of course you shouldn't go out if the weather's truly awful. Winter tyres won't help in two foot of snow and your car will just bottom and float on a drift. Try and be a tiny bit objective.popeyewhite said:
FiF said:
You're lucky you don't have to turn out, but saying no one else should really is a perfect example of applying your own circumstances as being valid for every other person in the entire nation.
Good grief man get a grip! Of course you shouldn't go out if the weather's truly awful. Winter tyres won't help in two foot of snow and your car will just bottom and float on a drift. Try and be a tiny bit objective.popeyewhite said:
FiF said:
You're lucky you don't have to turn out, but saying no one else should really is a perfect example of applying your own circumstances as being valid for every other person in the entire nation.
Good grief man get a grip! Of course you shouldn't go out if the weather's truly awful. Winter tyres won't help in two foot of snow and your car will just bottom and float on a drift. Try and be a tiny bit objective.
snow by Brent Leport, on FlickrTaken by my wife after she had cleared some of the snow off the top of the MGF to stop the roof collapsing.
The X5 was on winter tyres and had no issues with the conditions (she had just driven home). I was offshore at the time so the drive wasn't cleared.
Some of us just get on with it!
FiF said:
popeyewhite said:
FiF said:
You're lucky you don't have to turn out, but saying no one else should really is a perfect example of applying your own circumstances as being valid for every other person in the entire nation.
Good grief man get a grip! Of course you shouldn't go out if the weather's truly awful. Winter tyres won't help in two foot of snow and your car will just bottom and float on a drift. Try and be a tiny bit objective.jamieduff1981 said:
Spot on. It's great for popeye that he doesn't actually need to drive after all. That means his milage is more akin to the garage queen sort that picks and chooses when to go out.
I live in the High Peak. We get snow, more than most, maybe not as much as you. Like you I am self-employed - if I don't get out I don't get paid. Like you I need to get to school in the morning, but around here the school's close when the roads are impassible. Like you if the weather is awful and I have to go out I'll take the 4x4. Often when the weather's bad the Police close the roads. If you get caught driving them you'll get points because they're sick and tired of the emergency services being called out endangering themselves rescuing people like yourself who've been warned to stay at home but think they know better. I think your largesse at playing the Good Samaritan is very laudible, BTW. I'll assume this is only at weekends when you're not at work? 
popeyewhite said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Spot on. It's great for popeye that he doesn't actually need to drive after all. That means his milage is more akin to the garage queen sort that picks and chooses when to go out.
I live in the High Peak. We get snow, more than most, maybe not as much as you. Like you I am self-employed - if I don't get out I don't get paid. Like you I need to get to school in the morning, but around here the school's close when the roads are impassible. Like you if the weather is awful and I have to go out I'll take the 4x4. Often when the weather's bad the Police close the roads. If you get caught driving them you'll get points because they're sick and tired of the emergency services being called out endangering themselves rescuing people like yourself who've been warned to stay at home but think they know better. I think your largesse at playing the Good Samaritan is very laudible, BTW. I'll assume this is only at weekends when you're not at work? The roads here don't tend to switch in binary fashion from being summer-like to under 2 feet of snow with the police closing roads. We tend to just get slippery conditions on open roads, with the major roads often treated and the minor roads usually untreated from December through March.
Edit: I usually just stop to help on my way somewhere, during week days. Stuck vehicles can be an obstruction. It costs me 5 minutes to shackle them to the back of a pickup truck, move them and unshackle. It's not so critical precisely when I arrive to begin work, and more so that I actually do get there.
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Monday 5th December 10:57
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Monday 5th December 10:58
FiF said:
popeyewhite said:
FiF said:
You're lucky you don't have to turn out, but saying no one else should really is a perfect example of applying your own circumstances as being valid for every other person in the entire nation.
Good grief man get a grip! Of course you shouldn't go out if the weather's truly awful. Winter tyres won't help in two foot of snow and your car will just bottom and float on a drift. Try and be a tiny bit objective.
jamieduff1981 said:
No we don't get all that much snow. It's more, you know, cold and wintery.
The roads here don't tend to switch in binary fashion from being summer-like to under 2 feet of snow with the police closing roads. We tend to just get slippery conditions on open roads, with the major roads often treated and the minor roads usually untreated from December through March.
So the weather's not "truly awful" then. Thanks for the clarification.The roads here don't tend to switch in binary fashion from being summer-like to under 2 feet of snow with the police closing roads. We tend to just get slippery conditions on open roads, with the major roads often treated and the minor roads usually untreated from December through March.
popeyewhite said:
jamieduff1981 said:
No we don't get all that much snow. It's more, you know, cold and wintery.
The roads here don't tend to switch in binary fashion from being summer-like to under 2 feet of snow with the police closing roads. We tend to just get slippery conditions on open roads, with the major roads often treated and the minor roads usually untreated from December through March.
So the weather's not "truly awful" then. Thanks for the clarification.The roads here don't tend to switch in binary fashion from being summer-like to under 2 feet of snow with the police closing roads. We tend to just get slippery conditions on open roads, with the major roads often treated and the minor roads usually untreated from December through March.
To me there's more sense in buying a set of winter tyres than there is in buying a 4x4 which a lot of folks seem to do.
Sharing the wear over two sets for the incremental cost it incurs is negligible, and way more effective judging by how awful my old X5 was on it's summers in the snow.
It's true to say everyone's circumstances are different, personally I rather enjoy getting my hands dirty and swapping the wheels over plus the feeling I've optimised the car for the conditions.
But I've been called a spanner before, and no doubt will again....
Sharing the wear over two sets for the incremental cost it incurs is negligible, and way more effective judging by how awful my old X5 was on it's summers in the snow.
It's true to say everyone's circumstances are different, personally I rather enjoy getting my hands dirty and swapping the wheels over plus the feeling I've optimised the car for the conditions.
But I've been called a spanner before, and no doubt will again....
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