performance brake pads, worth iy?

performance brake pads, worth iy?

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Discussion

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
dblack1 said:
I said SOME compounds don't work well from cold and everybody says I said all (or in your case a specific one).
Not quite, you made blatantly incorrect statements such as:

dblack1 said:
As said previously, unless you intend to use the street as a race track, I would avoid pads designed for the track,
when no mention has ever been made of using track pads on the road. Track specific pads tend to not to work well when cold, and should not be used on the road. High performance road pads do work well from cold, and may be adequate for track use in some cases.

Furthermore, you then make this comment:

dblack1 said:
So you expect us to believe that these "performance road pads" are better than factory pads in every way... Explain this, why did the engineers designing the car (who probably know more about brakes than anyone on this forum) choose a different compound?
The answer to this was in the actual posted you quoted with it, so how can anyone take your views seriously when you are trying to argue against yourself?
Seriously, you're both saying the same thing. I'm not sure I believe there is such a thing as a "performance road pad" . . . that's the market EBC try to fill and we all know what a sh*t job they make of that.

If you're driving so fast on the public road that you really, really need better pads then you need to get off the road and get on track because you'll be driving like an ar*e. If your brakes are poor then it's usually lack of maintenance - if you want good brakes then change fluid every year, make sure the discs have plenty of meat on them (use good OEM discs, not so called "performance discs" and the pads too - half worn pads suffer from heat build up as do discs and this will be obvious if you drive hard.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
George111 said:
Seriously, you're both saying the same thing. I'm not sure I believe there is such a thing as a "performance road pad" . . . that's the market EBC try to fill and we all know what a sh*t job they make of that.

If you're driving so fast on the public road that you really, really need better pads then you need to get off the road and get on track because you'll be driving like an ar*e. If your brakes are poor then it's usually lack of maintenance - if you want good brakes then change fluid every year, make sure the discs have plenty of meat on them (use good OEM discs, not so called "performance discs" and the pads too - half worn pads suffer from heat build up as do discs and this will be obvious if you drive hard.
Now that is a breathtaking display of complete ignorance bowclap

If you really want I will explain why you have just made the most closed minded and factually incorrect post I've seen for a long while, but would you ever accept you are wrong?

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Thursday 18th September 2014
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
George111 said:
Seriously, you're both saying the same thing. I'm not sure I believe there is such a thing as a "performance road pad" . . . that's the market EBC try to fill and we all know what a sh*t job they make of that.

If you're driving so fast on the public road that you really, really need better pads then you need to get off the road and get on track because you'll be driving like an ar*e. If your brakes are poor then it's usually lack of maintenance - if you want good brakes then change fluid every year, make sure the discs have plenty of meat on them (use good OEM discs, not so called "performance discs" and the pads too - half worn pads suffer from heat build up as do discs and this will be obvious if you drive hard.
Now that is a breathtaking display of complete ignorance bowclap

If you really want I will explain why you have just made the most closed minded and factually incorrect post I've seen for a long while, but would you ever accept you are wrong?
Go on then, I've been agreeing with you all along . . . but enlighten me smile

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
George111 said:
Mr2Mike said:
George111 said:
Seriously, you're both saying the same thing. I'm not sure I believe there is such a thing as a "performance road pad" . . . that's the market EBC try to fill and we all know what a sh*t job they make of that.

If you're driving so fast on the public road that you really, really need better pads then you need to get off the road and get on track because you'll be driving like an ar*e. If your brakes are poor then it's usually lack of maintenance - if you want good brakes then change fluid every year, make sure the discs have plenty of meat on them (use good OEM discs, not so called "performance discs" and the pads too - half worn pads suffer from heat build up as do discs and this will be obvious if you drive hard.
Now that is a breathtaking display of complete ignorance bowclap

If you really want I will explain why you have just made the most closed minded and factually incorrect post I've seen for a long while, but would you ever accept you are wrong?
Go on then, I've been agreeing with you all along . . . but enlighten me smile
No ?

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Tuesday 23rd September 2014
quotequote all
George111 said:
Go on then, I've been agreeing with you all along . . . but enlighten me smile
You have a very peculiar way of agreeing with people then.

1) EBC are not the only manufacturer of brake pads. They may have made some duffers in the past, but they now make some pretty good brake pads. Pagid, Ferodo, Carbon Loraine and Mintex all make exceptionally good products.
2) You are confusing correlation and causation. Lack of maintenance can certainly result in poor brakes, but poor brakes are not always caused by lack of maintenance. Try driving an Citroen AX with it's brakes in perfect condition and tell me they are perfectly fine whilst keeping a straight face. Some cars have poor brakes from the factory, particularly some older cars.
3) Brakes can be faded without driving like an arse. On mountain passes and the like, where even sticking to low gears it's easy to fade the brakes of older cars. It's also quite possible to drive quickly and safely under suitable conditions on a road without driving like an arse.
4) If I do drive my car to a track and home again, I'll want some decent pads in it that work both on the road and on the track.
5) Brake fluid is not responsible for fade, and should not need to be changed annually. If brake fluid boils you don't get brake fade, you get no brakes at all.

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Tuesday 23rd September 2014
quotequote all
You missed out that many "so called performance discs" are much better than oem equipment.

And yes EBC can and do make some very good pads and discs but in the early days got themselves a bad name with their more budget orientated performance range.

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Wednesday 24th September 2014
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
George111 said:
Go on then, I've been agreeing with you all along . . . but enlighten me smile
You have a very peculiar way of agreeing with people then.

1) EBC are not the only manufacturer of brake pads. They may have made some duffers in the past, but they now make some pretty good brake pads. Pagid, Ferodo, Carbon Loraine and Mintex all make exceptionally good products.
2) You are confusing correlation and causation. Lack of maintenance can certainly result in poor brakes, but poor brakes are not always caused by lack of maintenance. Try driving an Citroen AX with it's brakes in perfect condition and tell me they are perfectly fine whilst keeping a straight face. Some cars have poor brakes from the factory, particularly some older cars.
3) Brakes can be faded without driving like an arse. On mountain passes and the like, where even sticking to low gears it's easy to fade the brakes of older cars. It's also quite possible to drive quickly and safely under suitable conditions on a road without driving like an arse.
4) If I do drive my car to a track and home again, I'll want some decent pads in it that work both on the road and on the track.
5) Brake fluid is not responsible for fade, and should not need to be changed annually. If brake fluid boils you don't get brake fade, you get no brakes at all.
I've driven on mountain passes in Switzerland, France, Italy, Spain and Andorra in cars and on bikes and never had an OEM brake pad fail or fade. But my fluid is changed annually and the callipers are cleaned properly and pads are never more than half worn.

I've never driven a Citroen AX and long may that be the case smile

You've not mentioned a fast road pad that retains all the benefits of an OEM pad (like my Volvo pads) which stop well in ice and snow, as well as having an extended upper temperature range.

And don't mention EBC, we're not going to spend £20k (or more) on a car then fit the bd love child of Amazon brown packaging and a banana crate brake pads to to it are we ?

Brake fluid doesn't always all boil - it's not binary - sometimes some of it gets a bit hot so the water in the fluid near the pad boils . . . hence poor brakes. The more water there is or the hotter the brakes, the worse it is. Cheap pads get hotter than good pads so can cause you to have a problem with the brakes which you identify as a fluid problem but it's actually caused by cheap, st material in the pads.

You can't, usually, have great road pads with OEM performance but with a higher temperature range - if you could do you not think BMW and Audi amongst others would fit them ? And if you could have that mix of qualities, do you think it would be a cheap Poundland pad like EBC or from a quality manufacturer like Pagid ?

It constantly amazes me that people on PH spend £1000's on some great cars, expensive track tyres, lots of tuning and fine honing, 100's of hours of their time then fit some seriously sh*t parts like EBC . . . why ????? Why not fit some seriously good pads like Pagid or one of the similar brands, right from the start ?

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
Topic closed I think smile

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
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Is he still slagging ebc?

Oh there is a surprise.

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
Pesty said:
Is he still slagging ebc?

Oh there is a surprise.
You get EBC to arrange an independent test, perhaps by Autocar for example, on the same basis as their tyre tests . . lets see the results and lets see EBC renew their PL insurance after the test !

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
George111 said:
You get EBC to arrange an independent test, perhaps by Autocar for example, on the same basis as their tyre tests . . lets see the results and lets see EBC renew their PL insurance after the test !
I'd like to see that. Then if they were as rubbish as you are suggesting I would have no problem with your posts. I'd love to see objective and unbiased testing for all things like this then we can use something other than personal bias.

What doesn't get anybody anywhere is some driving God on a website using the language you use.

But until then all I have is my experience which is possitive. No not quite as good as pagid but certainly not st as you keep on alledging with zeal. Your opinion is sooooo far away from my experience I not only don't belive you I think you have some kind if strange grudge.

I don't belive you wore out a set in under one track day but if autocar or anybody does that I will apologise to you. You use pagid for a year but EBC and others don't last one track day? Not buying it.


I have found they have nice initial bite for ' performance' pads, last a perfectly acceptable and have been fade proof. Good enough for my needs which include track and air field days.
I could spend 3 times as much on pagid but I wouldn't get 3 times the performance out if them. Are they a compromise? Yes probably but they perform to my tastes and one thing they certainly are not is utter ste as you keep saying they are.


If you said not quite as good as pagid I'd except and say yeah I'd go with that. If you Say you prefer the initial bite from cold with ferodo yeah fine. Find that at higher temperatures stop tech feel better yeah great . But constantly just say they are st leaves you with no credibility at all. Not that it will stop you.

Out of interest has any magazines ever done testing of performance pads?




Edited by Pesty on Wednesday 1st October 23:23

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Thursday 2nd October 2014
quotequote all
Pesty said:
George111 said:
You get EBC to arrange an independent test, perhaps by Autocar for example, on the same basis as their tyre tests . . lets see the results and lets see EBC renew their PL insurance after the test !
I'd like to see that. Then if they were as rubbish as you are suggesting I would have no problem with your posts. I'd love to see objective and unbiased testing for all things like this then we can use something other than personal bias.

What doesn't get anybody anywhere is some driving God on a website using the language you use.

But until then all I have is my experience which is possitive. No not quite as good as pagid but certainly not st as you keep on alledging with zeal. Your opinion is sooooo far away from my experience I not only don't belive you I think you have some kind if strange grudge.

I don't belive you wore out a set in under one track day but if autocar or anybody does that I will apologise to you. You use pagid for a year but EBC and others don't last one track day? Not buying it.


I have found they have nice initial bite for ' performance' pads, last a perfectly acceptable and have been fade proof. Good enough for my needs which include track and air field days.
I could spend 3 times as much on pagid but I wouldn't get 3 times the performance out if them. Are they a compromise? Yes probably but they perform to my tastes and one thing they certainly are not is utter ste as you keep saying they are.


If you said not quite as good as pagid I'd except and say yeah I'd go with that. If you Say you prefer the initial bite from cold with ferodo yeah fine. Find that at higher temperatures stop tech feel better yeah great . But constantly just say they are st leaves you with no credibility at all. Not that it will stop you.

Out of interest has any magazines ever done testing of performance pads?




Edited by Pesty on Wednesday 1st October 23:23
I am no driving God, just a bloke who spent a lot of money on cars and trusted the bullst spouted by EBC only to find their pads far from stopping as well as OEM pads also caught fire, broke up and broke free from the backing steel strip. This is all based on my own person experience . . . brake pads are critical to performance so why waste money on ste ?

I'd welcome any independent, scientific test, more than happy top eat my words . . . but I'll bet you £50 Pagid come top 3 in every category and EBC come last in every category !

Dave Brand

928 posts

267 months

Thursday 2nd October 2014
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If only all the wisdom spouted in this thread could be made available to the friction material industry. . .

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Friday 3rd October 2014
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Dave Brand said:
If only all the wisdom spouted in this thread could be made available to the friction material industry. . .
Do you really think Pagid need any advice from us or EBC devotees ? I suspect they know exactly what they are doing and the answer is no.

andyiley

9,106 posts

151 months

Saturday 4th October 2014
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^^^^^ What he said.

PhillipM

6,515 posts

188 months

Wednesday 15th October 2014
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Pesty said:
You use pagid for a year but EBC and others don't last one track day? Not buying it.
I've still got a set of EBC greenstuff that didn't manage more than 10-15 minutes if you want to take a look at them.

As for his stuff lasting a lot longer, that's pretty typical for the top end pads - the front of our car uses tiny little pads for weight saving, Carbotech pads in there have done 10x the events that Greenstuff, 1144's or DS2500 managed, and they're only half worn.

George111

6,930 posts

250 months

Wednesday 15th October 2014
quotequote all
Pesty said:
George111 said:
You get EBC to arrange an independent test, perhaps by Autocar for example, on the same basis as their tyre tests . . lets see the results and lets see EBC renew their PL insurance after the test !
I'd like to see that. Then if they were as rubbish as you are suggesting I would have no problem with your posts. I'd love to see objective and unbiased testing for all things like this then we can use something other than personal bias.
Why object to personal experience ? I speak from the point of view of having tried to brake hard at Bruntingthorp (amongst other places) and found the EBC greenstuff fading more than the memory of an unforgettable, drunk snog in the student union bar 30 years ago.

Let EBC put their products up against the best from Ferrodo, Pagid, even OEM pads. Lets see a proper technical, scientific test. Maybe they have improved . . . let them prove it . . . !