Discussion
CS Garth said:
An interesting fact/anecdote re Betamax is the reason many believe it lost out to VHS.
Betamax was developed by Sony (Japanese as we all know). VHS was predominantly pioneered by Phillips, a Dutch company. As a Dutch company, Phillips/VHS was the preferred format/technology of the earlier producers of bongo films. QED for those who wanted to get hold of some jazz the need was to have VHS to view them despite Betamax's superior quality. Thus VHS triumphed.
Was their something about tyres in this thread earlier?!
Ahem... JVC developed VHS. Phillips developed Video 2000 - does anyone apart from me remember that system?Betamax was developed by Sony (Japanese as we all know). VHS was predominantly pioneered by Phillips, a Dutch company. As a Dutch company, Phillips/VHS was the preferred format/technology of the earlier producers of bongo films. QED for those who wanted to get hold of some jazz the need was to have VHS to view them despite Betamax's superior quality. Thus VHS triumphed.
Was their something about tyres in this thread earlier?!
Edited by Riley Blue on Wednesday 3rd February 12:40
r11co said:
I have never at any point in this thread expressed a value judgement about these tyres.
You've not explicitly stated that these are great tyres, but you have tried your hardest to convince people they are by pointing out e.g. what a super modern factory they are made in, and how premium tyre manufacturers don't have any advantage in R&D etc. Basically you are using weasel words to try to sound more informed than you are and to imply that these must be good tyres.Where does the cynicism in the thread come from do you think? People's previous experiences with s
t Chinese tyres. Ask yourself why do st Chinese tyres even exist if it's apparently so easy to make tyres which are as good as the premium manufacturers ones?Audidodat said:
You're still wrongly conflating image/sales with the quality of the product.
Only in the sense that I consider image and ultimately sales as part of being a good product.Seeing as that is the purpose of a product, to be sold. Good products which don't sell aren't good products for very long.
Anyway I don't know why I'm still here, I couldn't give a f
k what tyres are on my car, as long as they're round, full of air and cheap.Riley Blue said:
CS Garth said:
An interesting fact/anecdote re Betamax is the reason many believe it lost out to VHS.
Betamax was developed by Sony (Japanese as we all know). VHS was predominantly pioneered by Phillips, a Dutch company. As a Dutch company, Phillips/VHS was the preferred format/technology of the earlier producers of bongo films. QED for those who wanted to get hold of some jazz the need was to have VHS to view them despite Betamax's superior quality. Thus VHS triumphed.
Was their something about tyres in this thread earlier?!
Ahem... JVC developed VHS. Phillips developed Video 2000 - does anyone apart from me remember that system?Betamax was developed by Sony (Japanese as we all know). VHS was predominantly pioneered by Phillips, a Dutch company. As a Dutch company, Phillips/VHS was the preferred format/technology of the earlier producers of bongo films. QED for those who wanted to get hold of some jazz the need was to have VHS to view them despite Betamax's superior quality. Thus VHS triumphed.
Was their something about tyres in this thread earlier?!
Edited by Riley Blue on Wednesday 3rd February 12:40
I remember when it was all fields as well
technodup said:
Audidodat said:
You're still wrongly conflating image/sales with the quality of the product.
Only in the sense that I consider image and ultimately sales as part of being a good product.Seeing as that is the purpose of a product, to be sold. Good products which don't sell aren't good products for very long.
Anyway I don't know why I'm still here, I couldn't give a f
k what tyres are on my car, as long as they're round, full of air and cheap.Linglong, Nexen, Davanti - all shyte but probably all have good marketing or trade incentive scheme behind them but they need it to sell, without it nobody in their right (informed) mind would buy them.
If you are in any doubt look at what manufacturers fit on their new cars . . . Davanti, Linglong, DitchGrind ? No- Continental/Michelin/maybe Pirelli - because they know they need to create a good impression of their product to the new owner straight away - first impressions and all that. Doesn't look good when Mr Fleet Accountant goes to collect his new BMW M-Power super saloon 518d and finds he slides around at the first wet roundabout . . . won't end well for BMW.
Riley Blue said:
CS Garth said:
An interesting fact/anecdote re Betamax is the reason many believe it lost out to VHS.
Betamax was developed by Sony (Japanese as we all know). VHS was predominantly pioneered by Phillips, a Dutch company. As a Dutch company, Phillips/VHS was the preferred format/technology of the earlier producers of bongo films. QED for those who wanted to get hold of some jazz the need was to have VHS to view them despite Betamax's superior quality. Thus VHS triumphed.
Was their something about tyres in this thread earlier?!
Ahem... JVC developed VHS. Phillips developed Video 2000 - does anyone apart from me remember that system?Betamax was developed by Sony (Japanese as we all know). VHS was predominantly pioneered by Phillips, a Dutch company. As a Dutch company, Phillips/VHS was the preferred format/technology of the earlier producers of bongo films. QED for those who wanted to get hold of some jazz the need was to have VHS to view them despite Betamax's superior quality. Thus VHS triumphed.
Was their something about tyres in this thread earlier?!
Edited by Riley Blue on Wednesday 3rd February 12:40
George111 said:
technodup said:
Audidodat said:
You're still wrongly conflating image/sales with the quality of the product.
Only in the sense that I consider image and ultimately sales as part of being a good product.Seeing as that is the purpose of a product, to be sold. Good products which don't sell aren't good products for very long.
Anyway I don't know why I'm still here, I couldn't give a f
k what tyres are on my car, as long as they're round, full of air and cheap.Linglong, Nexen, Davanti - all shyte but probably all have good marketing or trade incentive scheme behind them but they need it to sell, without it nobody in their right (informed) mind would buy them.
If you are in any doubt look at what manufacturers fit on their new cars . . . Davanti, Linglong, DitchGrind ? No- Continental/Michelin/maybe Pirelli - because they know they need to create a good impression of their product to the new owner straight away - first impressions and all that. Doesn't look good when Mr Fleet Accountant goes to collect his new BMW M-Power super saloon 518d and finds he slides around at the first wet roundabout . . . won't end well for BMW.
iSore said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Probably the most salient post in this thread. There is a place for Tesco value tyres in this world and the missus has them on her 15 year old 1.6 Golf. She never unsticks the ditch finders it's currently shod with but every time I drive it at what I consider to be normal 'making progress' speeds, the damn thing is dangerous.
You let your wife drive a car on what you know to be sub standard dangerous tyres?Unfortunately for me (as a car enthusiast) she is like a lot of other people who bitterly resent spending money on car maintenance. My influence can only go so far but it's (her) money at the end of the day and as I said, the way she drives it, the current tyres aren't an issue. She sticks to speed limits and takes corners slowly.
When they wear down (which will take 83 years at this rate) I will be in charge of their replacement!
technodup said:
Anyway I don't know why I'm still here, I couldn't give a fk what tyres are on my car, as long as they're round, full of air and cheap.
Davanti could therefore well be the perfect tyre for you - fill your boots.k what tyres are on my car, as long as they're round, full of air and cheap.But others may care a little more and not even notice the price difference.
technodup said:
George111 said:
Product and marketing are two completely different things
Anyone who has studied marketing at even the most basic level will know what I mean by the 4Ps. They are the cornerstones of the discipline .I'll leave it to you to figure out what one of the Ps stands for.
Marketing needs to consider the product being marketed.
Those doing the marketing don't - or shouldn't - define the product, but they will probably have input into the product development.
benjj said:
I didn't have the Davantis on one of my cars, they were on a car I borrowed and used for a couple of weeks, a Lexus IS200.
They didn't inspire confidence like a premium tyre does. They weren't unusable but just not really very good. Lots of loss of traction in damp conditions, not great stopping in full wet, just very average.
How did you lose traction? What happened for you to suggest "not great stopping in full wet" ?They didn't inspire confidence like a premium tyre does. They weren't unusable but just not really very good. Lots of loss of traction in damp conditions, not great stopping in full wet, just very average.
I can easily lose traction on my Rainsports, so I could probably say the same? And the Toyo's you listed which I have used many times are often slated.
And herein lies the problem with tyre opinions..
What about some toyo proxies £120 for the rears and £104 for the fronts only an extra £50 for some half decent mid range rubber that is the only thing between you and the road
http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-finder/s=1/summer/t=1...
http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-finder/s=1/summer/t=1...
Mr2Mike said:
You've not explicitly stated that these are great tyres, but you have tried your hardest to convince people they are by pointing out e.g. what a super modern factory they are made in, and how premium tyre manufacturers don't have any advantage in R&D etc.
The modern factory is a fact - it does actually exist. It's not like it's a figment of someone's imagination, and as for the R&D perspective that is a reality too. Tyre technology has matured - there has been no great advance since the development of synthetic based compounds, and the machinery and technology required to analyse and construct these compounds is just as if not more likely to be found in the modern factories of the far east (which is why the established brands have all built their newest production facilities there). There is no technical or intellectual barrier to far eastern companies producing competent products.Mr2Mike said:
Where does the cynicism in the thread come from do you think? People's previous experiences with st Chinese tyres. Ask yourself why do st Chinese tyres even exist if it's apparently so easy to make tyres which are as good as the premium manufacturers ones?
I take you back to my first post...t Chinese tyres. Ask yourself why do st Chinese tyres even exist if it's apparently so easy to make tyres which are as good as the premium manufacturers ones?r11co said:
I've never heard of Davanti but as someone has already said it looks like a 'brand' attached to a Far Eastern manufactured tyre. To some that is enough for them to be condemned as ditchfinders based on herd mentality backed up with an anecdotal experience of a probably completely unrelated product from some time ago, or more even second or third hand knowledge of such anecdotes.
I'm being utterly consistent here in presenting information. How you choose to interpret it is entirely up to you.I've made the point countless times now. If the past is a portent to the future then to assume that products from a nation that went from developing to developed to advanced will always be inferior to the products from established nations is utterly wrong-headed.
The naysayer's argument comes down to 'it has to be bad just because x, y and z, and I'm correct until proven otherwise'. I'm simply saying that that conclusion cannot be drawn without more information, but there is nothing within the information available about these particular tyres to suggest they are already handicapped.
Edited by r11co on Thursday 4th February 08:03
xjay1337 said:
So you're saying when we see linglony g LG570 as a tyre we are wrong to assume its crap?
I don't think mobile phones work very well as tyres, so the problem wouldn't be so much with the product as the user application.
Early Jap cars were crap in terms of rust, but were cheaper & better specced than UK equivalents.
Took some years before they were truly accepted as an acceptable alternative.
Kia, Hyundai etc were not taken seriously in the UK until a few years ago because the original incarnations were crap.
How did we accept the above? Independent testing. As I said in a previous post Chinese designed & built cars, admittedly for their home market, have been described by western 'experts' as behind the curve compared to western designed & built cars.
The glowing reports the Deviant tyres have been given are not representative to most PHers who have an idea of what they want & need from their tyres.
Granted they are probably more than adequate for Mrs Miggins & her Daihatsu that she uses to go to Church or shopping but until there is a truly independent test by a respected source they will just be seen as Ditcfinders.
Just because BMW makes things like the M5 or Merc AMG variants in State of the Art factories it does not make a Boggo 318d or A class their finest offering.
Took some years before they were truly accepted as an acceptable alternative.
Kia, Hyundai etc were not taken seriously in the UK until a few years ago because the original incarnations were crap.
How did we accept the above? Independent testing. As I said in a previous post Chinese designed & built cars, admittedly for their home market, have been described by western 'experts' as behind the curve compared to western designed & built cars.
The glowing reports the Deviant tyres have been given are not representative to most PHers who have an idea of what they want & need from their tyres.
Granted they are probably more than adequate for Mrs Miggins & her Daihatsu that she uses to go to Church or shopping but until there is a truly independent test by a respected source they will just be seen as Ditcfinders.
Just because BMW makes things like the M5 or Merc AMG variants in State of the Art factories it does not make a Boggo 318d or A class their finest offering.
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