Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
Gawd almighty.
It's true. There have been a few revolutionary changes in tyre design that have altered basic thinking (cross-ply giving way to radial ply being an obvious one, just like when biological washing powder became the norm), but the analogy is sound.It's easy to believe that established brands will always have the upper hand in research and development, but history proves otherwise. What happened to all those big-brand electronics and computer manufacturing companies you can think of from a decade or so ago!
The Chinese (like the Japanese and Koreans before them) are exiting the phase in their product development cycle where they sell poor-to-average products at cheap prices to build capital.
Take a look at that factory video - that is not a back-street remoulding operation, is it?
HustleRussell said:
r11co said:
That's the argument that is usually made, but the reality is that tyre technology is a bit like garment technology or washing powder technology - they have been developing for so long that everyone knows what goes into making them, and with the right manufacturing techniques and the right combinations of raw materials just about anyone can produce the full gamut of products from crap, through inadequate to premium just by changing the appropriate parameters.
Do you really believe that?I bet you still believe that diamonds are rare and therefor valuable.....!
Edited by r11co on Sunday 24th January 13:34
r11co you are simply wrong, if you had ever just fit and handled unmounted tyres over the years you'd have noticed significant evolution in materials and construction even over the past few years. You'd also have observed how cheaper brands lag behind by years in their adoption of these technologies. Why? Because cheap tyre manufacturers only get access to these technologies when they buy used tooling from the ever evolving innovators, license the technology in partnership or invest in and develop their own world class R&D program.
HustleRussell said:
r11co you are simply wrong, if you had ever just fit and handled unmounted tyres over the years....
I have.I don't do it for a living, but I fitted and balanced my first set of tyres in 1991 and have done dozens of sets since....
My observations regarding construction difference is that you can't distinguish by brand or source of manufacture. There will just as often be differences across different products from the same manufacturer. Heck, I've even seen variations between batches of what were allegedly the same tyres!
HustleRussell said:
Why? Because cheap tyre manufacturers only get access to these technologies when they buy used tooling from the ever evolving innovators, license the technology in partnership or invest in and develop their own world class R&D program.
Quite. I think I mentioned that very point in bold in my first post in this thread.As I said, like the Japanese and Koreans before them....
Edited by r11co on Sunday 24th January 13:49
My current cars have decent tyres (Pirelli). I'm always confident about my ability to stop before hitting the car in front. I do, however, always check my mirrors when stopping sharply to check whether the car behind has the same stopping ability I have....
In terms of this thread you can read into my comment what you will.
In terms of this thread you can read into my comment what you will.
amgmcqueen said:
Davanti.....ffs 
Cheap s
tty Chinese tyres should be banned from the UK. They turn cars into death traps especially in the wet.
Is there any direct evidence that this is the case? I'm not talking about measured stopping distances or 'lateral-g' figures, but real-life collision data.Cheap s
tty Chinese tyres should be banned from the UK. They turn cars into death traps especially in the wet.
r11co said:
Strong words. As you saying Davanti are ditchfinders? If so, where are you getting that information from? Proof either way would be invaluable.
Not exactly, but on the balance of probability they're not going to be much cop. I may be amazed and they may beat an MPSS in a group test but I doubt it. I would however bet money on the Kumho being significantly better under wet braking!Edited by r11co on Sunday 24th January 12:15
280E said:
amgmcqueen said:
Davanti.....ffs
Cheap stty Chinese tyres should be banned from the UK. They turn cars into death traps especially in the wet.
Is there any direct evidence that this is the case? I'm not talking about measured stopping distances or 'lateral-g' figures, but real-life collision data.Cheap s
tty Chinese tyres should be banned from the UK. They turn cars into death traps especially in the wet.As it is, assuming they're quite popular because they're cheap, and knowing the UK is often wet I'd guess this ditchfinder stuff is somewhat exaggerated.
I've got cheap tyres. I live in a very wet Glasgow. They start, stop and go round corners just fine.
832ark said:
Not exactly, but on the balance of probability they're not going to be much cop. I may be amazed and they may beat an MPSS in a group test but I doubt it. I would however bet money on the Kumho being significantly better under wet braking!
No facts, just opinions then. Highly ironic that you chose Kumho as your example.(BTW - I'll repeat just for the record - I've never expressed an opinion either way on these tyres in this thread and don't intend to without more information.)
Edited by r11co on Sunday 24th January 14:06
technodup said:
pointedstarman said:
I do, however, always check my mirrors when stopping sharply to check whether the car behind has the same stopping ability I have....
You can see the car behinds tyres from your rear view mirror?That's some party trick.
He was that busy looking at the tyres behind, he failed to notice the person stopping in front.
pointedstarman said:
My current cars have decent tyres (Pirelli). I'm always confident about my ability to stop before hitting the car in front. I do, however, always check my mirrors when stopping sharply to check whether the car behind has the same stopping ability I have....
In terms of this thread you can read into my comment what you will.
I know exactly what you mean......In terms of this thread you can read into my comment what you will.
r11co said:
It's true. There have been a few revolutionary changes in tyre design that have altered basic thinking (cross-ply giving way to radial ply being an obvious one, just like when biological washing powder became the norm), but the analogy is sound.
Oooookay.So low rolling resistance compounds, grip-focussed compounds, winter compounds... All utter codswallop?
r11co said:
No facts, just opinions then. Highly ironic that you chose Kumho as your example.
(BTW - I'll repeat just for the record - I've never expressed an opinion either way on these tyres in this thread and don't intend to without more information.)
I never claimed it was anything other than opinion! Not sure why you find the comparison against Kumhos ironic? They come out as a decent mid range tyre in tests. (BTW - I'll repeat just for the record - I've never expressed an opinion either way on these tyres in this thread and don't intend to without more information.)
Edited by r11co on Sunday 24th January 14:06
r11co said:
HustleRussell said:
r11co you are simply wrong, if you had ever just fit and handled unmounted tyres over the years....
I have.I don't do it for a living, but I fitted and balanced my first set of tyres in 1991 and have done dozens of sets since....
My observations regarding construction difference is that you can't distinguish by brand or source of manufacture. There will just as often be differences across different products from the same manufacturer. Heck, I've even seen variations between batches of what were allegedly the same tyres!
HustleRussell said:
Why? Because cheap tyre manufacturers only get access to these technologies when they buy used tooling from the ever evolving innovators, license the technology in partnership or invest in and develop their own world class R&D program.
Quite. I think I mentioned that very point in bold in my first post in this thread.As I said, like the Japanese and Koreans before them....
Edited by r11co on Sunday 24th January 13:49
832ark said:
I never claimed it was anything other than opinion! Not sure why you find the comparison against Kumhos ironic? They come out as a decent mid range tyre in tests.
Take this thread back 15-20 years and it's title would very likely be "Kumho Tyres".Kumho's first tyres on the UK market were from a design/manufacturing process licensed from Stomil - a Polish tyre company.
Just saying...
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