New winter tyres- Feels like floating.. Normal?
Discussion
I've always found winter tyres to feel softer and vaguer than summer tyres too, regardless of temperature. There's huge difference between sharpness and grip however, and with winter tyres you're sacrificing one for the other through softer compounds and treadblocks that are inherently less rigid in order to have the features which make them work.
The tread design is what makes them so vastly superior to summer tyres in the snow, and the softer compound is what makes them offer superior grip in the cold.
As a further benefit, I believe getting rid of the sharpness is a very good thing in cold, wintery weather. What you gain instead is progressiveness.
I love my MPSS in the summer but they're a liability on cold damp roads in a Scottish winter.
The tread design is what makes them so vastly superior to summer tyres in the snow, and the softer compound is what makes them offer superior grip in the cold.
As a further benefit, I believe getting rid of the sharpness is a very good thing in cold, wintery weather. What you gain instead is progressiveness.
I love my MPSS in the summer but they're a liability on cold damp roads in a Scottish winter.
I've got the TS860 and have been impressed with them.
I think some of the difference between winter tyres and summer tyres can often be down to a set of old summers coming off, with not much tread left on them, and a set of brand new winters going on. Plus, sometimes there is a drop in rim diameter and an increase in profile. When you swap at the same size, the difference isn't as marked.
I think some of the difference between winter tyres and summer tyres can often be down to a set of old summers coming off, with not much tread left on them, and a set of brand new winters going on. Plus, sometimes there is a drop in rim diameter and an increase in profile. When you swap at the same size, the difference isn't as marked.
grumpynuts said:
Complete twaddle my friend. Your car WILL feel different, you have 8 to 9mm of tread, more movement in the tread blocks, totally different compounds etc. Once you get used to it, winter tyres feel completely normal. I'm calling b*llsh*t on your claim of having tried different sets, as everyone I know who runs winters, categorically state how massively superior they are to summer tyres on wet, creasy,cold winter roads, regardless of ice or snow. And of course on ice and snow they are simply amazing compared to summer tyres.
I run a 911, and it feels different on winters, a bit floaty and vague to start with, but once I "tune in" to them, I can drive plenty fast enough on any road on any condition without worrying about slipping off into the nearest ditch. Mine are going on this weekend.
Calling bullsI run a 911, and it feels different on winters, a bit floaty and vague to start with, but once I "tune in" to them, I can drive plenty fast enough on any road on any condition without worrying about slipping off into the nearest ditch. Mine are going on this weekend.
t - well done.I love it how when anyone has a differing opinion to you it gives them the right to "call bulls
t" and call you a liar. Why would you possibly think that I am lying about having tried different types of winter tyres? Because my experiences and personal impressions of the tyres differ to yours and therefore must be made up?All I can say is that I feel much more confident on my standard high performance tyres summer tyres than any of the 5 different sets of winters (all good makes, I only use high quality tyres) I have tried in any conditions other than actual snow or ice. I will admit these are not all on the same vehicle so that may have some bearing but all the winters have felt dodgy on dry roads and not as good as my summers on wet cold roads.
I have a set of winter wheels and tyres for my Jeep so I can get about if we have a cold snap but I wouldn't waste money putting them on my M3 which I use every day.
But then I'm a massive liar and am talking "bulls
t" because my opinion differs to yours so please ignore me. 
I recently swapped MPSS for Alpin PA4 on my M5 and yes, its definitely become more squidgy and vague, but traction and stability when braking were both night and day better when temperatures were nearer freezing. I have since increased pressures all round and it feels a little better in these milder temps.
As always there is a compromise to be made, but for me the improved water displacement and cold temperature grip are worth it alone, without a flake of snow or subzero temperatures to worry about.
I also have Dunlop Winter Sport 5 on the Golf R and they are very good indeed - much less soft feeling and also a much less discernible 'cut off' in performance in milder temperatures to the extent that I didn't bother taking them off for the summer. I haven't had a chance to try them in snow yet but as an all round cold weather tyre they have been the best I've used so far.
As always there is a compromise to be made, but for me the improved water displacement and cold temperature grip are worth it alone, without a flake of snow or subzero temperatures to worry about.
I also have Dunlop Winter Sport 5 on the Golf R and they are very good indeed - much less soft feeling and also a much less discernible 'cut off' in performance in milder temperatures to the extent that I didn't bother taking them off for the summer. I haven't had a chance to try them in snow yet but as an all round cold weather tyre they have been the best I've used so far.
bagusbagus said:
well increased the pressure in tyres from 2bar to 2.4bar on front/ 2.3 on back and it feels much better now, not as good as cheap worn summer tyres but whole lot better + the MPG improved by quite a bit as well.
I'm not surprised! 2 bar is very low for most modern cars. That's only 29psi.What does the handbook say it should be?
Timbuktu said:
Calling bullst - well done.
I love it how when anyone has a differing opinion to you it gives them the right to "call bullst" and call you a liar. Why would you possibly think that I am lying about having tried different types of winter tyres? Because my experiences and personal impressions of the tyres differ to yours and therefore must be made up?
All I can say is that I feel much more confident on my standard high performance tyres summer tyres than any of the 5 different sets of winters (all good makes, I only use high quality tyres) I have tried in any conditions other than actual snow or ice. I will admit these are not all on the same vehicle so that may have some bearing but all the winters have felt dodgy on dry roads and not as good as my summers on wet cold roads.
I have a set of winter wheels and tyres for my Jeep so I can get about if we have a cold snap but I wouldn't waste money putting them on my M3 which I use every day.
But then I'm a massive liar and am talking "bullst" because my opinion differs to yours so please ignore me.
You made a very sweeping statement about ,how in your opinion, your high performance summer tyres were every bit as good as winter tyres,in cold and damp conditions. That statement is clearly utterly without fact, as every other post praises the grip of winter tyres over summer ones, in the same conditions. This points to 2 things, either you have no feel for your car's behaviour, and genuinely can't notice the difference, or you were trying to be a smart arse and wind everyone up. I genuinely worry for someone who drives an M3 and can't tell the difference between high performance summer tyres and winter ones. Good luck over the winter in that. Don't forget, that by fitting winter wheels and tyres, you'd get to keep the M3's wheels all nice and salt and damage free, added bonus. t - well done.I love it how when anyone has a differing opinion to you it gives them the right to "call bulls
t" and call you a liar. Why would you possibly think that I am lying about having tried different types of winter tyres? Because my experiences and personal impressions of the tyres differ to yours and therefore must be made up?All I can say is that I feel much more confident on my standard high performance tyres summer tyres than any of the 5 different sets of winters (all good makes, I only use high quality tyres) I have tried in any conditions other than actual snow or ice. I will admit these are not all on the same vehicle so that may have some bearing but all the winters have felt dodgy on dry roads and not as good as my summers on wet cold roads.
I have a set of winter wheels and tyres for my Jeep so I can get about if we have a cold snap but I wouldn't waste money putting them on my M3 which I use every day.
But then I'm a massive liar and am talking "bulls
t" because my opinion differs to yours so please ignore me. grumpynuts said:
You made a very sweeping statement about ,how in your opinion, your high performance summer tyres were every bit as good as winter tyres,in cold and damp conditions. That statement is clearly utterly without fact, as every other post praises the grip of winter tyres over summer ones, in the same conditions.
He's probably correct - if he's talking about a modern Michelin summer tyre (or similar) it will still work very well at lower temperatures. New compounds have blurred the crossover point between summer and winter, providing there's no snow or ice. The 7C point may well be relevant for budget tyres but it's not a fixed point anymore for premium tyres. Winter tyres will always feel sloppy - Conti 850's (which have perhaps the best dry feel of any winter tyre) on my Volvo make it feel even more of a barge but they don't have any advantage over the Michelin Primacy 3 tyres which I use normally, unless it's snowing or icy or probably -10C but it's not been that cold in the SE for years.
So at 3C for example, the winter tyre feels sloppy and less precise but offers 5% more grip (made up example) than the summer tyre, but the summer feels more precise and you're not using all the performance of the tyre anyway so the extra 5% grip is irrelevant - I'd stick to summer tyres.
George111 said:
He's probably correct - if he's talking about a modern Michelin summer tyre (or similar) it will still work very well at lower temperatures. New compounds have blurred the crossover point between summer and winter, providing there's no snow or ice. The 7C point may well be relevant for budget tyres but it's not a fixed point anymore for premium tyres.
Winter tyres will always feel sloppy - Conti 850's (which have perhaps the best dry feel of any winter tyre) on my Volvo make it feel even more of a barge but they don't have any advantage over the Michelin Primacy 3 tyres which I use normally, unless it's snowing or icy or probably -10C but it's not been that cold in the SE for years.
So at 3C for example, the winter tyre feels sloppy and less precise but offers 5% more grip (made up example) than the summer tyre, but the summer feels more precise and you're not using all the performance of the tyre anyway so the extra 5% grip is irrelevant - I'd stick to summer tyres.
In your 3c example on a dry day, the winter tyre will offer 15% worse dry braking than the summer too.Winter tyres will always feel sloppy - Conti 850's (which have perhaps the best dry feel of any winter tyre) on my Volvo make it feel even more of a barge but they don't have any advantage over the Michelin Primacy 3 tyres which I use normally, unless it's snowing or icy or probably -10C but it's not been that cold in the SE for years.
So at 3C for example, the winter tyre feels sloppy and less precise but offers 5% more grip (made up example) than the summer tyre, but the summer feels more precise and you're not using all the performance of the tyre anyway so the extra 5% grip is irrelevant - I'd stick to summer tyres.
I still think the CrossClimate is pretty much as close to the "right tyre" for the UK climate "most" of the time, but it still has drawbacks.
Podie said:
TheRainMaker said:
Mine really don't feel any different at all.
Pirelli Winter SottoZero 3
Really?Pirelli Winter SottoZero 3
Got those on Mrs Podie's Fiesta ST. When we had -6C a few weeks back they were great, but felt pretty vague on corners / roundabouts at the weekend in 12C
Have to say when brand new and not yet scrubbed, and coming from needing-replacement summers, they were very floaty indeed. Didn't notice much of a difference in feel switching from Goodyear AS2/3s a few weeks ago. Conversely when I left them on way too long earlier in the year things got very slippery, I managed to spin all four wheels in the dry which hasn't ever happened before or since.
grumpynuts said:
You made a very sweeping statement about ,how in your opinion, your high performance summer tyres were every bit as good as winter tyres,in cold and damp conditions. That statement is clearly utterly without fact, as every other post praises the grip of winter tyres over summer ones, in the same conditions. This points to 2 things, either you have no feel for your car's behaviour, and genuinely can't notice the difference, or you were trying to be a smart arse and wind everyone up. I genuinely worry for someone who drives an M3 and can't tell the difference between high performance summer tyres and winter ones. Good luck over the winter in that. Don't forget, that by fitting winter wheels and tyres, you'd get to keep the M3's wheels all nice and salt and damage free, added bonus.
I think the cross over point for winters to be any better than summers (apart from in snow and ice as I've already said) may be lower than you think.Having owned fast cars and bikes, riding bikes off road, doing multiple track days a year and never having had an accident off or on track in my 15 years of driving in all conditions qualify me to comment on my findings on winter tyres compared to summers and I can assure you I can tell the difference. You already know my opinion.
No need to be condescending about being "genuinely worried" for me without winters on my car and you're the one who started the insults by calling me a liar when I was just reporting what I have found to be the case. Others above agree and the winter tyre debate continues on many threads.
I think there is a reason winters are not enforced in the UK like other countries. It's because realistically we only really need them a couple of days a year at most.
Thanks for your wishes of good luck over winter, but I'll take my own judgement instead thanks
I think I must of had Timbuktu helping me pilot my rwd BMW through pirbright bends whilst it was down to -6 for a couple of days last week as I managed to get to work and back all week without implanting a tree into the side of my car,
I also managed for the last 4 weekends to drive around the south downs late at night in heavy rain and 0 degrees 3.5 hour round trip and didn't have any grip issues causing me to crash and has been the same for most of my driving life
thanks Timbuktu a real gent if only I had some winter tyres I wouldn't have to take up your precious mind time
I also managed for the last 4 weekends to drive around the south downs late at night in heavy rain and 0 degrees 3.5 hour round trip and didn't have any grip issues causing me to crash and has been the same for most of my driving life
thanks Timbuktu a real gent if only I had some winter tyres I wouldn't have to take up your precious mind time
Edited by loose cannon on Friday 16th December 18:13
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