New winter tyres- Feels like floating.. Normal?

[havoc]

Unless it's icy, winters won't be as good as a set of summers, particularly when new and the tread-blocks are tall - the suggestions to increase the pressure a few psi is a good one and fairly common advice. But there's also an element of fun to be had with the lower grip limits.

The reason for fitting them is you don't know WHEN you're going to wake up to ice / hit an icy patch on the road. So you put up with that loss in precision and in your dry/wet limits for the additional capability you get when temps get around or below 0 C.

[wibblebrain]

CrutyRammers said:

Yep, normal due to the big fat tread blocks.
Just enjoy the trade off when you slice through loads of standing water without aquaplaning horribly.

This ^^

They aren't just for snow and ice.

Also I think they get better once needed in.

[BigLion]

Winter tyres are rubbish if the temps are not low - it made my car feel 'skittish' but you learn to drive around the issue. On my next car I don't think I'll bother with them as when the roads are treacherous I end up working from home anyhow

[Kawasicki]

Timbuktu said:

grumpynuts said:

You made a very sweeping statement about ,how in your opinion, your high performance summer tyres were every bit as good as winter tyres,in cold and damp conditions. That statement is clearly utterly without fact, as every other post praises the grip of winter tyres over summer ones, in the same conditions. This points to 2 things, either you have no feel for your car's behaviour, and genuinely can't notice the difference, or you were trying to be a smart arse and wind everyone up. I genuinely worry for someone who drives an M3 and can't tell the difference between high performance summer tyres and winter ones. Good luck over the winter in that. Don't forget, that by fitting winter wheels and tyres, you'd get to keep the M3's wheels all nice and salt and damage free, added bonus.

I think the cross over point for winters to be any better than summers (apart from in snow and ice as I've already said) may be lower than you think.

Having owned fast cars and bikes, riding bikes off road, doing multiple track days a year and never having had an accident off or on track in my 15 years of driving in all conditions qualify me to comment on my findings on winter tyres compared to summers and I can assure you I can tell the difference. You already know my opinion.

No need to be condescending about being "genuinely worried" for me without winters on my car and you're the one who started the insults by calling me a liar when I was just reporting what I have found to be the case. Others above agree and the winter tyre debate continues on many threads.

I think there is a reason winters are not enforced in the UK like other countries. It's because realistically we only really need them a couple of days a year at most.

Thanks for your wishes of good luck over winter, but I'll take my own judgement instead thanks

I worked testing winter tyres for a couple of years. Occasionally against summer tyres. The results were often not what the marketing departments and internet experts would have you believe. I used summer tyres all year round, driving in Austria. I live in Germany now and I still don't like driving on winter tyres. I fitted Michelin Crossclimates a month ago, because I want to avoid legal blame due to not having winter tyres fitted in the event of a crash.

[jon-]

Kawasicki said:

I worked testing winter tyres for a couple of years. Occasionally against summer tyres. The results were often not what the marketing departments and internet experts would have you believe. I used summer tyres all year round, driving in Austria. I live in Germany now and I still don't like driving on winter tyres. I fitted Michelin Crossclimates a month ago, because I want to avoid legal blame due to not having winter tyres fitted in the event of a crash.

What do you make of the CrossClimates?

I'm a current tyre tester and feel they're pretty much the best winter tyre for the climate like the south of the UK. Good enough in snow and ice, and much less of a drawback in dry.

[Kawasicki]

jon- said:

What do you make of the CrossClimates?

I'm a current tyre tester and feel they're pretty much the best winter tyre for the climate like the south of the UK. Good enough in snow and ice, and much less of a drawback in dry.

I'm very happy with them. German roads are very smooth so the tread compound is super important for wet grip, which is very good, the limit is pretty high and the breakaway and recovery is super. The tread stiffness gives good steering, on centre precision is good, steering out of centre is not as good, but the fairly strong torque build-up means that most inputs are slow enough not to generate obvious phase delay. Steering efforts/self aligning torque is a good compromise.

They are a sweet steering tyre with super predictable grip properties....for a non sports tyre, so don't expect too much crispness and you won't be dissatisfied. Much better than a conventional winter tyre for the driving I do, which is driving like a lunatic, because hey, I like it.

[g3org3y]

I've felt similar on fitting my winters this year.

For reference, I've gone from Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas (225/45 R17 all round) to Hankook I*Cept Evos (205/55 R16 all round). This will be the fourth season I've fitted these winters but the first time I've felt 'uncomfortable' on them.

They've always been very soft compared to the summers with a much vaguer turn in (higher profile contributing) and floaty feel but this year rear traction is non existent. And decent application of throttle results in a lot of ASC+T flashing. Could it be the rubber has 'gone off' while in storage? The tyres must be at least 5 years old now. The warmer/milder weather of late hasn't helped but tbh they didn't feel great even when we were having temps around zero. I'd estimate they are at around 4mm tread depth.

Following the advice on this thread, I've increased the pressures to see what difference that makes.

[everycloud]Ride comfort is better on the 16s though[/everycloud]

[SteA]

I swapped my MPSS for winters a few weeks ago. I've lost all the precision but gained outright grip. I now have no traction issues on the rural, frequently greasy or icy, roads I do most of my driving on and that's with a scrabble wagon with 315 bhp. As a direct comparison on the same roads, I have noticeably more grip than our S3 on new F1 Asymmetrics. I have to say, I probably wouldn't have bothered swapping, so far, if I drove on major roads more.

[slipstream 1985]

g3org3y said:

I've felt similar on fitting my winters this year.

For reference, I've gone from Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas (225/45 R17 all round) to Hankook I*Cept Evos (205/55 R16 all round). This will be the fourth season I've fitted these winters but the first time I've felt 'uncomfortable' on them.

They've always been very soft compared to the summers with a much vaguer turn in (higher profile contributing) and floaty feel but this year rear traction is non existent. And decent application of throttle results in a lot of ASC+T flashing. Could it be the rubber has 'gone off' while in storage? The tyres must be at least 5 years old now. The warmer/milder weather of late hasn't helped but tbh they didn't feel great even when we were having temps around zero. I'd estimate they are at around 4mm tread depth.

Following the advice on this thread, I've increased the pressures to see what difference that makes.

[everycloud]Ride comfort is better on the 16s though[/everycloud]

At 5 years old imo they have had it.

[ModernAndy]

Be careful with raising the PSI. I did this on my last set of winters (TS850's) and while it made the handling a lot better it was at the expense of tyre longevity. At 5 psi above you may very well end up with some very weird shaped tyres when they've got a few thousand miles on them.

That being said, I got TS860's slung on the car last month and am currently hating the handling at standard pressures. I'm thinking of putting them up by 2 psi but still wary of how they'll wear.

[Kawasicki]

also the grip properties are changed by increasing the pressures, I tend to be fairly conservative

[CO2000]

g3org3y said:

I've felt similar on fitting my winters this year.

For reference, I've gone from Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas (225/45 R17 all round) to Hankook I*Cept Evos (205/55 R16 all round). This will be the fourth season I've fitted these winters but the first time I've felt 'uncomfortable' on them.

They've always been very soft compared to the summers with a much vaguer turn in (higher profile contributing) and floaty feel but this year rear traction is non existent. And decent application of throttle results in a lot of ASC+T flashing. Could it be the rubber has 'gone off' while in storage? The tyres must be at least 5 years old now. The warmer/milder weather of late hasn't helped but tbh they didn't feel great even when we were having temps around zero. I'd estimate they are at around 4mm tread depth.

Following the advice on this thread, I've increased the pressures to see what difference that makes.

[everycloud]Ride comfort is better on the 16s though[/everycloud]

I find the Sessanta's have a very stiff shoulder, which in my book is a very good thing (3 sets so far!) can see going to winters making the difference greater in this case.