How to Tell if Rear Coil Springs gone Bad?
Discussion
The jeep is at my dealers garage to sort out the rear shocks and leaking fuel tank. I'd get back mid of this week and then I'll take to car body wash place near me over the weekend. They'd do a thorough jet wash to see how much badly rust has taken over and then they'd advise me whether to Waxoyl it or give a rust treatment.
From my inspection, its not as bad as the laters models like 2004/2005.
From my inspection, its not as bad as the laters models like 2004/2005.
The jeep is at my dealers garage to sort out the rear shocks and leaking fuel tank. I'd get back mid of this week and then I'll take to car body wash place near me over the weekend. They'd do a thorough jet wash to see how much badly rust has taken over and then they'd advise me whether to Waxoyl it or give a rust treatment.
From my inspection, its not as bad as the laters models like 2004/2005.
From my inspection, its not as bad as the laters models like 2004/2005.
It does look rusty but you mentioned £1300 for a full underbody treatment?
No offence but this seems like a lot of money particularly on a car with quite a low market value. I'd suggest it should be possible to keep the rust at bay for a few more years without spending that kind of money.
No offence but this seems like a lot of money particularly on a car with quite a low market value. I'd suggest it should be possible to keep the rust at bay for a few more years without spending that kind of money.
HustleRussell said:
It does look rusty but you mentioned £1300 for a full underbody treatment?
No offence but this seems like a lot of money particularly on a car with quite a low market value. I'd suggest it should be possible to keep the rust at bay for a few more years without spending that kind of money.
£1300 for a rust proofing treatment is a silly price....No offence but this seems like a lot of money particularly on a car with quite a low market value. I'd suggest it should be possible to keep the rust at bay for a few more years without spending that kind of money.
HustleRussell said:
It does look rusty but you mentioned £1300 for a full underbody treatment?
No offence but this seems like a lot of money particularly on a car with quite a low market value. I'd suggest it should be possible to keep the rust at bay for a few more years without spending that kind of money.
its alright, I agree with you on that price mate. That sort of money worth spending on an old Ferrari or Porsche, not on mine! No offence but this seems like a lot of money particularly on a car with quite a low market value. I'd suggest it should be possible to keep the rust at bay for a few more years without spending that kind of money.
I'm not going treat the rust, If they advised me to. Instead, I'll keep oiling it every 6 months or so...
Hi Guys,
I had dropped the car with the dealer, who agreed to replace the shocks. He has come back saying there's nothing wrong with the shocks or spring and the hammering ride is normal for any cars used for caravan towing. I think means the coil spring is stiffer for caravan towing and it's been fitted with one of them. So without caravan weight taken at the back, it'll be hammering. I've told him it cannot be normal cos it bounces the baby with the car seat off the seat!
He'll double check that and get back to me today. What's your take on this please?
Cheers
I had dropped the car with the dealer, who agreed to replace the shocks. He has come back saying there's nothing wrong with the shocks or spring and the hammering ride is normal for any cars used for caravan towing. I think means the coil spring is stiffer for caravan towing and it's been fitted with one of them. So without caravan weight taken at the back, it'll be hammering. I've told him it cannot be normal cos it bounces the baby with the car seat off the seat!
He'll double check that and get back to me today. What's your take on this please?
Cheers
I don't know why you're throwing money at an old nail like that. I've got a 2008 Kia and that only cost £2k and also now has a leaking fuel tank. Trouble is the dealer price for those is £600 or more. I just keep it half full instead of brimming it but when time allows it'll get some fibreglass or similar slapped on it.
I can't imagine your 2003 car is worth much more than a grand in good nick and with a leaking fuel tank basically zero. It's a disposable item. Run it until it no longer passes an MOT and then sell it for spares. Or just P/X it for something that doesn't bounce the baby out of its child seat.
I can't imagine your 2003 car is worth much more than a grand in good nick and with a leaking fuel tank basically zero. It's a disposable item. Run it until it no longer passes an MOT and then sell it for spares. Or just P/X it for something that doesn't bounce the baby out of its child seat.
something not mentioned is that the rear of a car will nearly always have stiffer suspension than the front.
It is done so the manufacturer can pitch optimise the suspension for a typical average speed.
City cars and small cars tend to used at lower speeds - to get lower pitch optimisation speed you need stiffer rear springs.
You will find some cars where this is pronounced enough to make sitting in the back uncomfortable.
If it's had special uprated towing springs then it will make it even worse as the shock would have been designed for a softer spring and therefore have more compression damping.
Softer spring needs more compression - less rebound.
stiffer spring needs the opposite. So if you fit a stiff spring on stock shocks you can get a very poor ride. One of the reasons why most aftermarket sports springs are progressively wound.
It is done so the manufacturer can pitch optimise the suspension for a typical average speed.
City cars and small cars tend to used at lower speeds - to get lower pitch optimisation speed you need stiffer rear springs.
You will find some cars where this is pronounced enough to make sitting in the back uncomfortable.
If it's had special uprated towing springs then it will make it even worse as the shock would have been designed for a softer spring and therefore have more compression damping.
Softer spring needs more compression - less rebound.
stiffer spring needs the opposite. So if you fit a stiff spring on stock shocks you can get a very poor ride. One of the reasons why most aftermarket sports springs are progressively wound.
I don't know what sort of bump stop that vehicle has, but it might be worth adding some tape or similar which will leave witness marks if the suspension bottoms out. You should not expect to hit the bump stop in normal use, but if you do that would cause the sort of hard knocks you're describing.
If you're hitting the bump stops you'll want to find out what's causing that and fix it, but if not then you can rule that out and concentrate on damper performance and bushes.
If you're hitting the bump stops you'll want to find out what's causing that and fix it, but if not then you can rule that out and concentrate on damper performance and bushes.
I don't know how to explain it properly. Okay let me out it this way; what would it feel like if you replaced the shocks with an iron bar? When you go over a small hump/pot hole, it'll throw the back up and down rigidly and that's the ride it has, even for a slower speed like 10mph!.
From what you all are advising, it could either seized shocks (works like a solid rod ) and stiffer springs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq-x0YT1Uj8
From what you all are advising, it could either seized shocks (works like a solid rod ) and stiffer springs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq-x0YT1Uj8
Edited by zakmuh on Wednesday 10th May 12:59
zakmuh said:
I don't know how to explain it properly. Okay let me out it this way; what would it feel like if you replaced the shocks with an iron bar? When you go over a small hump/pot hole, it'll throw the back up and down rigidly and that's the ride it has, even for a slower speed like 10mph!.
From what you all are advising, it could either seized shocks (works like a solid rod ) and stiffer springs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq-x0YT1Uj8
if you can count the effective coils of the spring, measure the wire diameter and the outside diameter of the spring i can work out the rate and then we could see if the spring was to blame. I've never known a shock to seize so it is pointing to a much stiffer spring. Has someone maybe put rubber spring assisters in the spring coil voids?From what you all are advising, it could either seized shocks (works like a solid rod ) and stiffer springs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq-x0YT1Uj8
Edited by zakmuh on Wednesday 10th May 12:59
what happens if you get someone to sit on the boot loading lip - does it drop?
Unhinged said:
....Has someone maybe put rubber spring assisters in the spring coil voids?
what happens if you get someone to sit on the boot loading lip - does it drop?
Thanks mate, I can only get the spring dimensions on the weekend, cos the car is with the dealer. what happens if you get someone to sit on the boot loading lip - does it drop?
No, voids are clear, no rubber or anything there. But with regards to the drop, it does drop very little, I'd say 50mm max. how I can tell is, I keep my daughter on my 407SW boot when I'm doing gardening. So in this one, I can hardly feel its dropping.
Unhinged said:
....Has someone maybe put rubber spring assisters in the spring coil voids?
what happens if you get someone to sit on the boot loading lip - does it drop?
Thanks mate, I can only get the spring dimensions on the weekend, cos the car is with the dealer. what happens if you get someone to sit on the boot loading lip - does it drop?
No, voids are clear, no rubber or anything there. But with regards to the drop, it does drop very little, I'd say 50mm max. how I can tell is, I keep my daughter on my 407SW boot when I'm doing gardening. So in this one, I can hardly feel its dropping.
zakmuh said:
Thanks mate, I can only get the spring dimensions on the weekend, cos the car is with the dealer.
No, voids are clear, no rubber or anything there. But with regards to the drop, it does drop very little, I'd say 50mm max. how I can tell is, I keep my daughter on my 407SW boot when I'm doing gardening. So in this one, I can hardly feel its dropping.
sorry confused now - 50mm would be a huge drop for one person sitting on the boot.No, voids are clear, no rubber or anything there. But with regards to the drop, it does drop very little, I'd say 50mm max. how I can tell is, I keep my daughter on my 407SW boot when I'm doing gardening. So in this one, I can hardly feel its dropping.
talking about boots - my Fiat Stilo has the best boot ever. I can fit a kart in up to the rear wheels and i've even made a boat now that fits in the boot (well most of it anyway nobody wants a 5 foot boat)
zakmuh said:
Oh! Maybe got that measurement wrong. May I ask, why did you want to know the drop? Would this tell something about the spring?
Btw, the a pretty generous space Fiat has give for you
the idea is to determine if something was preventing it moving - if the spring was very stiff you'd see little impact when a person sat on the boot lipBtw, the a pretty generous space Fiat has give for you
It is difficult to get the right springs from a motor factors as car manufacturers use so many different spring rates for different specs of car, I'd suggest finding out how much springs are from a Kia dealer- springs are generally cheap to buy and then you know you have exactly the right factory spring.
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