Renault Clio Steering U/J
Discussion
Disclaimer: If this all goes horribly wrong, don't blame me.
There's another, easy way to “fix” this problem that needs no welding.
First, make one (or two) shims, about 3/8" to 3/4" wide and 3/4" long. Make them out of those blanker plates that are used to plug the holes in the back of PCs. They are good to use, because they come with a 90 deg bend that is useful for hammering the shims in. I made them out of steel plate, though, because it's a bit thicker. I sharpened one end with a grinder to make them easy to slide in. You might need to saw the shims, if you use two. I did.
Next, put some super glue down between the sides of the rubber sleeve, where the end of the column slots into it, then quickly hammer the shim(s) into one side. Once done, smother both sides of the rubber sleeve with more super glue. Go back to this hours later and do it once or twice more. Wrap some super strength gaffer tape over the lot, to hold it all together until it sets super hard.
This made my steering very tight. I have not tried this long term – I'll get back later, maybe. If it comes loose I'll do it again. I reckon the wheel can only become so slack as it was in the first place – so this would be “stronger” than welding, because the integrity of the original fastener is undisturbed. If it goes slack, I am back where I started, but no worse.
Disclaimer: That's the theory, anyway.
There's another, easy way to “fix” this problem that needs no welding.
First, make one (or two) shims, about 3/8" to 3/4" wide and 3/4" long. Make them out of those blanker plates that are used to plug the holes in the back of PCs. They are good to use, because they come with a 90 deg bend that is useful for hammering the shims in. I made them out of steel plate, though, because it's a bit thicker. I sharpened one end with a grinder to make them easy to slide in. You might need to saw the shims, if you use two. I did.
Next, put some super glue down between the sides of the rubber sleeve, where the end of the column slots into it, then quickly hammer the shim(s) into one side. Once done, smother both sides of the rubber sleeve with more super glue. Go back to this hours later and do it once or twice more. Wrap some super strength gaffer tape over the lot, to hold it all together until it sets super hard.
This made my steering very tight. I have not tried this long term – I'll get back later, maybe. If it comes loose I'll do it again. I reckon the wheel can only become so slack as it was in the first place – so this would be “stronger” than welding, because the integrity of the original fastener is undisturbed. If it goes slack, I am back where I started, but no worse.
Disclaimer: That's the theory, anyway.
There is only one way of repairing steering parts !! FIT NEW PARTS!!! that is unless you are a total DICK HEAD . and have no social consience, if you kill your self it would not bother me at all, but if you killed any one else !! I leave it to you to think about . Please show this message to the dodgy mot station you use too!!!!!
one eyed mick said:
There is only one way of repairing steering parts !! FIT NEW PARTS!!! that is unless you are a total DICK HEAD . and have no social consience, if you kill your self it would not bother me at all, but if you killed any one else !! I leave it to you to think about . Please show this message to the dodgy mot station you use too!!!!!
Rubbish. It's entirely possible to repair almost anything safely if you know what you are doing (or get someone that does).What would happen if you couldn't buy a new part, e.g. on a kit car where the steering parts may have been fabricated anyway?
Mr2Mike said:
What would happen if you couldn't buy a new part, e.g. on a kit car where the steering parts may have been fabricated anyway?
Yes - OneEyedMick was not overly helpful on this occasion. I inspected the maintenance shop of the Llangollen Railway on Sunday. They fix everything or make it from scratch. Including whole locomotives! Shims are used all over in engineering - it's "a thin and often tapered or wedged piece of material, used to fill small gaps or spaces between objects. Shims are typically used in order to support, adjust for better fit, or provide a level surface. Shims may also be used as spacers to fill gaps between parts subject to wear." If you don't use shims, you have to replace parts much more frequently, which is usually a waste.
MoralHazard said:
Once you have served your four year apprenticeship as a mechanic (as I have) then you might have something to say. Until then, I remain very sceptical of your claims.
Ok 4years ,I did 5 + another 40 + I've built race cars, rally cars ,stage and road , kit cars and numerous other projects ,MOT tester 5years , serviced and repaired most things between motor bikes and 30 ton cranes ---- do you want to play any more swap cards! I stand by my comments as posted and ask you to not engage your speaking/posting skills before using your brain ,the only time I would consider the outright bodgery as posted would be to get to some where to be safe if stranded in the Aussie out back or similar .When you have seen the results at first hand of steering failure at high speed you may change your veiws I hope you continue in the motor trade such as it is now . As to trains they don't get driven to high speed in the museum context and are steered bye the rails !!!Mr2Mike said:
Rubbish. It's entirely possible to repair almost anything safely if you know what you are doing (or get someone that does).
What would happen if you couldn't buy a new part, e.g. on a kit car where the steering parts may have been fabricated anyway?
There is great difference between fabricating and modification and the bodgery as posted , hammering a peice of computor case into what I believe is part of the collapsing system on that Renault steering column is notand never will be sensible only in the extreme circumstances in my other postWhat would happen if you couldn't buy a new part, e.g. on a kit car where the steering parts may have been fabricated anyway?
one eyed mick said:
hammering a peice of computor case
If it is the use of cheap steel that you dislike, you could pay for a machine shop to make the shims for you. They would be identical, of course, but much more costly. And you could use a titanium hammer as a striking tool, if a regular hammer offends you. I have no objection whatsoever if you feel the urge to throw money away – it helps the economy.one eyed mick said:
I believe is part of the collapsing system
Have you seen the part? It's a solid steel slot that fits in a solid steel notch; the fix doesn't change that and it can't collapse. If you wish to rant and rave, there are plenty of good things to rant and rave about. Shims should not be one of them!
PS: I'll let you off for calling me names - for now.
Edited by MoralHazard on Tuesday 20th September 12:11
one eyed mick said:
I stand by what I've said 100%
Well, let's see what you have said. You said there is only one way of repairing steering parts, which is untrue. You've said that using any other way makes one a total DICK HEAD, which is untrue. You have said it would not bother you at all if I die, which is slightly worse that “ruffling my feathers”, as you put it. And, having shamelessly ranted and raved, you then apologised to me, albeit in a feeble, half-hearted manner. You cut a very unpleasant figure. It might be best for you to find some other victim, as you will have no more fun out of me.
one eyed mick said:
There is great difference between fabricating and modification and the bodgery as posted , hammering a peice of computor case into what I believe is part of the collapsing system on that Renault steering column is notand never will be sensible only in the extreme circumstances in my other post
Then may I suggest "Spec Savers"? Look again at the pictures posted earlier in the thread, and explain to me just how the column could be collapsible at this point? There is virtually no movement available whatsoever, the UJ is stopping it at one end and the change in section of the column itself will stop it at the other.This is just a UJ on the end of the column where it attaches to the rack. The joint is originally made by bonded rubber as a means of reducing NVH through the steering, and this degrades over time causing lost motion. Shimming this out with steel will restore the lost motion, albeit at the cost of a little more NVH. Welding is a little more risky, both in creating an HAZ area and because it's easy to damage the UJ through excessive heat.
Hi guys, I've googled my way here all the way from Sweden! Hope you don't mind me waking up this thread.
Bought a 1995 Clio 1,2 from a nice lady who'd had it for 15 years, near mint condition. I took the car for a very short test drive, and of course I didn't check things properly. It really felt like a very old car with engine noise, 70's / 80's car kind of gearshift response (a proper THUNK!) but I thought it was fun in some kind of geeky way. Now I don't feel like calling her up to complain... (I still got it for a pretty decent price) and the steering wheel play is right there. I just started trying to fit my 44 year old slightly overweight self in a position to even reach in with my hands among the pedals, not overly comfortable, not exactly the ideal car size for a guy at 183 cm / 100-something-kilos. (But when I drive it I sit a bit like a racing driver and that's pretty OK haha).
The spat / gaiter (word?) covering the problem area sits like glued and is made of a very sturdy rubber material. Am I supposed to slice this one up and use duct tape to "seal" it afterwards or can I use some kind of tool to lift / bend it up? As you hear I'm not a mecanic by any means. I do, however, feel pretty confident, after +5 hours googling the matter today, that I can fix it with a combination of epoxy mass, jubilee clips and good luck... ;-) After all I spent loads of time fixing my KETTCAR as a kid and this steering problem is exactly like that one. Pretty much the same design solutions too. Lol.
This Renault is my only hope right now; it's my third currently owned car and the other two are parked, forbidden to drive since they're not approved with the MOT. Much larger and nicer cars, a 855 SE 2,5 and a 307 1,6, but what to do. This Renault was cheaper to buy than fixing all the needed points on the Volvo.
Will go out into the swedish dark and cold end-of-summer (sigh) night to try bending myself in position once again.
Bought a 1995 Clio 1,2 from a nice lady who'd had it for 15 years, near mint condition. I took the car for a very short test drive, and of course I didn't check things properly. It really felt like a very old car with engine noise, 70's / 80's car kind of gearshift response (a proper THUNK!) but I thought it was fun in some kind of geeky way. Now I don't feel like calling her up to complain... (I still got it for a pretty decent price) and the steering wheel play is right there. I just started trying to fit my 44 year old slightly overweight self in a position to even reach in with my hands among the pedals, not overly comfortable, not exactly the ideal car size for a guy at 183 cm / 100-something-kilos. (But when I drive it I sit a bit like a racing driver and that's pretty OK haha).
The spat / gaiter (word?) covering the problem area sits like glued and is made of a very sturdy rubber material. Am I supposed to slice this one up and use duct tape to "seal" it afterwards or can I use some kind of tool to lift / bend it up? As you hear I'm not a mecanic by any means. I do, however, feel pretty confident, after +5 hours googling the matter today, that I can fix it with a combination of epoxy mass, jubilee clips and good luck... ;-) After all I spent loads of time fixing my KETTCAR as a kid and this steering problem is exactly like that one. Pretty much the same design solutions too. Lol.
This Renault is my only hope right now; it's my third currently owned car and the other two are parked, forbidden to drive since they're not approved with the MOT. Much larger and nicer cars, a 855 SE 2,5 and a 307 1,6, but what to do. This Renault was cheaper to buy than fixing all the needed points on the Volvo.
Will go out into the swedish dark and cold end-of-summer (sigh) night to try bending myself in position once again.
The gaiter will pull up from the inside without damage, it is quite hard to get it out however. When you put it back push it in as far as possible from the inside then there are three or four tabs that you can pull from under the car and inside the engine bay using Mole grips or pliers, it will go back but is hard work. Did you check the lower UJ as this wears and causes the wandering steering
Thank you very much! I just visited my regular mr. Repairman & explained the quite common welding solution. He was against that because of the obvious fire hazard. Tried discussing different other methods for solving it but he kind of said between the lines 'get rid of the car or drive it like it is'. A guy on a Swedish forum said ceramic metal in combination with some stabilisation could work fine for normal use (ie not for those driving fast avoiding cones). Tired as hell here right now so excuse me for my bad English.
Obviously, the best advice is to get rid of the car (the diesel engines are good but everything else will probably give you more issues).
Having said this, on my car, I got a mobile welder to fix the U/J to the steering column (using an arc welder). He put a tiny bit of weld on it and the steering felt as good as new afterwards. In terms of heat and fire hazard nothing got hot enough to cause any issues. There was just enough heat to melt the nylon bush inside the U/J (which was the cause of the issue anyway) and this didn't do any harm. Cost me £25 from memory (the welder usually charged £50 minimum but he said it was such a small, easy and quick job he would charge half).
The only downside was that the steering column may not have collapsed in the intended way in a crash (although the car felt much safer to drive generally). For this reason I wouldn't recommend you do the repair. New part or new car I would suggest.
Having said this, on my car, I got a mobile welder to fix the U/J to the steering column (using an arc welder). He put a tiny bit of weld on it and the steering felt as good as new afterwards. In terms of heat and fire hazard nothing got hot enough to cause any issues. There was just enough heat to melt the nylon bush inside the U/J (which was the cause of the issue anyway) and this didn't do any harm. Cost me £25 from memory (the welder usually charged £50 minimum but he said it was such a small, easy and quick job he would charge half).
The only downside was that the steering column may not have collapsed in the intended way in a crash (although the car felt much safer to drive generally). For this reason I wouldn't recommend you do the repair. New part or new car I would suggest.
mikdys said:
The only downside was that the steering column may not have collapsed in the intended way in a crash (although the car felt much safer to drive generally). For this reason I wouldn't recommend you do the repair. New part or new car I would suggest.
If it's where the UJ attaches to the steering column (as in the old pictures in the thread), then it's not part of the collapsible structure.The main downside of welding (assuming it's done well) is that an MOT tester may fail the car if he sees it.
Thank God I found this thread, as it helped me find what is causing the free play in the steering of my Clio MK1. I removed the rubber cover, and found that the U/J is loose, allowing the free play. Obviously, I need to get it fixed, if I want my car to pass the next MOT.
I think i will start with trying to shim the excess space inside the notch with some pieces of metal, and see if that works. I guess if the problem isn't entirely fixed, you could just try using thicker shims? Unless there is also some other problem causing the free play.
Are there any experiences of solving this obviously common problem by shimming? As someone previously stated, I guess the worst thing that can happen, is that the shimming somehow fails, and you're back where you started?
Have anyone tried filling out the excess space with some semi-hard epoxy?
At least for now, welding is out of question, since I don't have access to a welder, and an official garage will probably refuse to perform this illegal fix. Btw, why is the bushing there in the first place? Is it solely a comfort issue, or might there be a risk of any other parts being damaged by vibrations and shocks, if they are not absorbed? Could there also be a safety aspect?
And yes, I know, the best option would obviously be to get rid of the car, so you don't need to tell me that.
I think i will start with trying to shim the excess space inside the notch with some pieces of metal, and see if that works. I guess if the problem isn't entirely fixed, you could just try using thicker shims? Unless there is also some other problem causing the free play.
Are there any experiences of solving this obviously common problem by shimming? As someone previously stated, I guess the worst thing that can happen, is that the shimming somehow fails, and you're back where you started?
Have anyone tried filling out the excess space with some semi-hard epoxy?
At least for now, welding is out of question, since I don't have access to a welder, and an official garage will probably refuse to perform this illegal fix. Btw, why is the bushing there in the first place? Is it solely a comfort issue, or might there be a risk of any other parts being damaged by vibrations and shocks, if they are not absorbed? Could there also be a safety aspect?
And yes, I know, the best option would obviously be to get rid of the car, so you don't need to tell me that.
Axelvilhelm said:
I think i will start with trying to shim the excess space inside the notch with some pieces of metal, and see if that works. I guess if the problem isn't entirely fixed, you could just try using thicker shims? Unless there is also some other problem causing the free play.
Have anyone tried filling out the excess space with some semi-hard epoxy?
Btw, why is the bushing there in the first place?
Shimming/epoxy won't work - don't waste your time on these ideas.Have anyone tried filling out the excess space with some semi-hard epoxy?
Btw, why is the bushing there in the first place?
The bushing is there to make the steering movement feel better (it probably does until the car leaves the showroom and the bushing wears out!).
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