Sprayed whole car but.......
Discussion
Hi
As some of you will know I am restoring a 20 year old Ford and learning as I go.
I had some problems with water contamination early on when I set about spraying the car, but just about managed to sort it all out.
I sprayed the doors, bootlid, bumpers, bonnet and bodykit before putting them to one side whilst I painted the shell.
Over the last month or so I have been rebuilding the car and have progressed well, until today.....
I put the doors back on and the shade of red used on the panels (the bits that were painted first) is different to that of the shell!!!
I used a different tin of paint; same shop, same brand paint, mixed exactly the same way but the shade is different!
I called in to the bodyshop today and they are going to pop over on the weekend to take a look but have suggested that the paint must have been mixed incorrectly at the shop.
They advise that my best bet is to remove any glass and exterior trim and locks etc, mask everywhere, 1200 grit the whole car before giving it 2 good coats.
I will not need to paint the door apertures or engine bay, just the exterior of the panels.
I am sure you can imagine this is sole destroying for me.....
Any advice on the above would be great, have a look at if you would like to see the respray pictures:
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t...
As some of you will know I am restoring a 20 year old Ford and learning as I go.
I had some problems with water contamination early on when I set about spraying the car, but just about managed to sort it all out.
I sprayed the doors, bootlid, bumpers, bonnet and bodykit before putting them to one side whilst I painted the shell.
Over the last month or so I have been rebuilding the car and have progressed well, until today.....
I put the doors back on and the shade of red used on the panels (the bits that were painted first) is different to that of the shell!!!
I used a different tin of paint; same shop, same brand paint, mixed exactly the same way but the shade is different!
I called in to the bodyshop today and they are going to pop over on the weekend to take a look but have suggested that the paint must have been mixed incorrectly at the shop.
They advise that my best bet is to remove any glass and exterior trim and locks etc, mask everywhere, 1200 grit the whole car before giving it 2 good coats.
I will not need to paint the door apertures or engine bay, just the exterior of the panels.
I am sure you can imagine this is sole destroying for me.....
Any advice on the above would be great, have a look at if you would like to see the respray pictures:
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t...
Anatol said:
Eep! It can happen. Unless the batch is the same, some colour variance can creep in. With effect paints, application makes a difference too.
The advice is good - finish assembly and then recoat the exterior in one visit...
I am not sure that this is what caused it, but I think it did:The advice is good - finish assembly and then recoat the exterior in one visit...
When I ordered the final 5 litres for the shell and to have some left over, they had run out of one of the red pigments at the shop. I had to return a few days later once they had a delivery. Perhaps a different batch produced a different shade.
Anyway.....
My plan is to remove the locks, all rubbers, boot wiper, sunroof and fixings, rear lights etc and then mask everywhere.
I will then sand with 1200 to remove the shine and flatten before going over everything in 2 coats.
I would hope I can get it done in 2 days.
Cheers
Inaccurate weighing of the colour tints when mixing the paint is one possibility.
Maybe when the first batch was mixed they used a standard shade, the next batch may have been a different shade.
You may not have stirred the paint thoroughly enough when you were using it.
Maybe the paint is too thin on some panels so you're actually seeing the primer/ground coat showing through.
Maybe when the first batch was mixed they used a standard shade, the next batch may have been a different shade.
You may not have stirred the paint thoroughly enough when you were using it.
Maybe the paint is too thin on some panels so you're actually seeing the primer/ground coat showing through.
Good news.
Bodyshop guy came out today and after teaching me the best way to mask and so on he tried his machine polisher on a section of the doors and wings; where the shade difference is.
Where there was a 'shade' difference in the red between the doors and surrounding panels after a machine polish the difference is far less noticable,
I am going to put the wheels on tomorrow and see what it is like in natural day light. I am very positive.
It could be that the paint was thinned at different percentages giving a different final shade that is improved from machine polishing.
I will keep you updated.
Cheers
Bodyshop guy came out today and after teaching me the best way to mask and so on he tried his machine polisher on a section of the doors and wings; where the shade difference is.
Where there was a 'shade' difference in the red between the doors and surrounding panels after a machine polish the difference is far less noticable,
I am going to put the wheels on tomorrow and see what it is like in natural day light. I am very positive.
It could be that the paint was thinned at different percentages giving a different final shade that is improved from machine polishing.
I will keep you updated.
Cheers
TROOPER88 said:
Good news.
Bodyshop guy came out today and after teaching me the best way to mask and so on he tried his machine polisher on a section of the doors and wings; where the shade difference is.
Where there was a 'shade' difference in the red between the doors and surrounding panels after a machine polish the difference is far less noticable,
I am going to put the wheels on tomorrow and see what it is like in natural day light. I am very positive.
It could be that the paint was thinned at different percentages giving a different final shade that is improved from machine polishing.
I will keep you updated.
Cheers
One thing to watch for... If you leave the 2 shades as they are, there's a possibility that under different lighting like street lights, you will see an even bigger difference due to a phenomenon called metamerism. Different pigments reflect light in different ways depending on the light source and it particularly affects reds. I would recommend that you go to plan A and respray the entire car using a single batch of paint. Bodyshop guy came out today and after teaching me the best way to mask and so on he tried his machine polisher on a section of the doors and wings; where the shade difference is.
Where there was a 'shade' difference in the red between the doors and surrounding panels after a machine polish the difference is far less noticable,
I am going to put the wheels on tomorrow and see what it is like in natural day light. I am very positive.
It could be that the paint was thinned at different percentages giving a different final shade that is improved from machine polishing.
I will keep you updated.
Cheers
Cheers
David
After machine polishing a lot of the car as you can see below the shade difference between the door/s and the surrounding panels is very noticeable.
Do you think I could get away with buying another couple of litres (same paint) and just paint the doors? I could obviously blend into quaters and wings if need be.
When an car goes into a bodyshop for accident repair a decent bodyshop normally blends the painted area in very well.
One of the things that I would like advice on is whether you think that the shade could be different due to be thinned at different percentages?
I painted the doors first, followed by the shell a couple of weeks later. I thinned the door paint to about 15% and the shell to circa 25-30%.
If this could be the cause I will thin the paint to 25-30% when I paint the doors again.
The door had not been machine polished in this picture but after polishing the difference is nearly as great!
Thanks
Do you think I could get away with buying another couple of litres (same paint) and just paint the doors? I could obviously blend into quaters and wings if need be.
When an car goes into a bodyshop for accident repair a decent bodyshop normally blends the painted area in very well.
One of the things that I would like advice on is whether you think that the shade could be different due to be thinned at different percentages?
I painted the doors first, followed by the shell a couple of weeks later. I thinned the door paint to about 15% and the shell to circa 25-30%.
If this could be the cause I will thin the paint to 25-30% when I paint the doors again.
The door had not been machine polished in this picture but after polishing the difference is nearly as great!
Thanks
A couple of options.
Do you have any of the paint left you sprayed the shell with ?
If yes then get some more paint mixed up matched to that paint ....that's assuming the paint supplier is any good at tinting.....still not a guarantee it will match tho.
What paint did you use,solid 2K or basecoat/clear ?
If it's basecoat you can paint the door and blend into the front wing and quarter and then clear the complete side.Don't get any colour on the top of the wing else it won't match the bonnet.
If it's not basecoat you can't !
Oh by the way,was it you who asked a few months ago could you paint the shell and panels seperately ?
I responded that you should fit the panels and spray the whole car in 1 go and was shouted down by a couple of other posters.
Now you know why I said that
Do you have any of the paint left you sprayed the shell with ?
If yes then get some more paint mixed up matched to that paint ....that's assuming the paint supplier is any good at tinting.....still not a guarantee it will match tho.
What paint did you use,solid 2K or basecoat/clear ?
If it's basecoat you can paint the door and blend into the front wing and quarter and then clear the complete side.Don't get any colour on the top of the wing else it won't match the bonnet.
If it's not basecoat you can't !
Oh by the way,was it you who asked a few months ago could you paint the shell and panels seperately ?
I responded that you should fit the panels and spray the whole car in 1 go and was shouted down by a couple of other posters.
Now you know why I said that
V8covin said:
A couple of options.
Do you have any of the paint left you sprayed the shell with ?
If yes then get some more paint mixed up matched to that paint ....that's assuming the paint supplier is any good at tinting.....still not a guarantee it will match tho.
What paint did you use,solid 2K or basecoat/clear ?
If it's basecoat you can paint the door and blend into the front wing and quarter and then clear the complete side.Don't get any colour on the top of the wing else it won't match the bonnet.
If it's not basecoat you can't !
Oh by the way,was it you who asked a few months ago could you paint the shell and panels seperately ?
I responded that you should fit the panels and spray the whole car in 1 go and was shouted down by a couple of other posters.
Now you know why I said that
Firstly, thankyou for your reply.Do you have any of the paint left you sprayed the shell with ?
If yes then get some more paint mixed up matched to that paint ....that's assuming the paint supplier is any good at tinting.....still not a guarantee it will match tho.
What paint did you use,solid 2K or basecoat/clear ?
If it's basecoat you can paint the door and blend into the front wing and quarter and then clear the complete side.Don't get any colour on the top of the wing else it won't match the bonnet.
If it's not basecoat you can't !
Oh by the way,was it you who asked a few months ago could you paint the shell and panels seperately ?
I responded that you should fit the panels and spray the whole car in 1 go and was shouted down by a couple of other posters.
Now you know why I said that
In answer to your questions:
I have a small amount of paint left that I painted the shell with. Maybe 100ml or so.
It is a solid colour.
In hindsight yes the door should have been hung.
If in a booth with a large compressor etc that is how would have finished it.
Could it be that there is a difference in shade because the shell and the bonnet were originally white whilst the doors were red and black respectively. All had a couple of coats of primer so surely this should make no difference?
Would you recommend that I order another 2 litres of Ford Radiant Red P9 or try and take a sample of what I have left to a decent paint shop?
With it only being the doors that are a different shade, naturally I would like just to be able to paint these alone.
Cheers
It's not that uncommon to have 2 mixes of the same colour from the same supplier turn out slightly different.It comes down to how accurately the guy can be bothered to mix it it off the scheme or maybe the scales got knocked out of calibration,could be a whole host of reasons.
It's always wise if you have a number of say 1 ltr mixes to put them into a larger tin before you start spraying to ensure the same colour throughout.
1ooml won't be enough to do 2 doors but it is possible to just paint the edges and blend in towards the middles of the doors and clearcoat the complete doors.It's not something that's recommended but it can be done
It's always wise if you have a number of say 1 ltr mixes to put them into a larger tin before you start spraying to ensure the same colour throughout.
1ooml won't be enough to do 2 doors but it is possible to just paint the edges and blend in towards the middles of the doors and clearcoat the complete doors.It's not something that's recommended but it can be done
V8covin said:
It's not that uncommon to have 2 mixes of the same colour from the same supplier turn out slightly different.It comes down to how accurately the guy can be bothered to mix it it off the scheme or maybe the scales got knocked out of calibration,could be a whole host of reasons.
It's always wise if you have a number of say 1 ltr mixes to put them into a larger tin before you start spraying to ensure the same colour throughout.
1ooml won't be enough to do 2 doors but it is possible to just paint the edges and blend in towards the middles of the doors and clearcoat the complete doors.It's not something that's recommended but it can be done
HiIt's always wise if you have a number of say 1 ltr mixes to put them into a larger tin before you start spraying to ensure the same colour throughout.
1ooml won't be enough to do 2 doors but it is possible to just paint the edges and blend in towards the middles of the doors and clearcoat the complete doors.It's not something that's recommended but it can be done
When I said I had circa 100ml remianing I meant to use that as a sample that could be taken to a paint shop so they could match the colour.
With it being a solid colour I have not used a clear coat.
From the picture (I know it is hard from just a picture), does it look like a shade difference in that they have sold me the wrong paint or one of the many reasons that have been discussed?
Did you have both mixes from the same place ?
If so I'd go back and have a word,tell them their 2nd mix didn't match the 1st and ask them what they are going to do about it.They should at least give you the paint for nothing.
A good paint mixer will be able to tint the paint if it isn't spot on so long as he has a sample to go off,which you have.
Just to let you know red is a bugger to match because once sprayed and dried it will be darker than what's in your tin.
I could blend your 100ml in and you wouldn't be able to tell but like I say I wouldn't recommend you try that.
I've just re-read your 1st post.You painted the doors 1st and then the shell so you want the 2nd batch of paint not the 1st.
Confusing myself now lol.
Have you got any paint left from when you did the shell or is that the 100 ml you were talking about ?
If so I'd go back and have a word,tell them their 2nd mix didn't match the 1st and ask them what they are going to do about it.They should at least give you the paint for nothing.
A good paint mixer will be able to tint the paint if it isn't spot on so long as he has a sample to go off,which you have.
Just to let you know red is a bugger to match because once sprayed and dried it will be darker than what's in your tin.
I could blend your 100ml in and you wouldn't be able to tell but like I say I wouldn't recommend you try that.
I've just re-read your 1st post.You painted the doors 1st and then the shell so you want the 2nd batch of paint not the 1st.
Confusing myself now lol.
Have you got any paint left from when you did the shell or is that the 100 ml you were talking about ?
Edited by V8covin on Wednesday 23 November 18:44
Edited by V8covin on Wednesday 23 November 18:46
V8covin said:
Did you have both mixes from the same place ?
If so I'd go back and have a word,tell them their 2nd mix didn't match the 1st and ask them what they are going to do about it.They should at least give you the paint for nothing.
A good paint mixer will be able to tint the paint if it isn't spot on so long as he has a sample to go off,which you have.
Just to let you know red is a bugger to match because once sprayed and dried it will be darker than what's in your tin.
I could blend your 100ml in and you wouldn't be able to tell but like I say I wouldn't recommend you try that.
I've just re-read your 1st post.You painted the doors 1st and then the shell so you want the 2nd batch of paint not the 1st.
Confusing myself now lol.
Have you got any paint left from when you did the shell or is that the 100 ml you were talking about ?
That is the 100ml I have left.
But the strange thing is I am pretty sure I painted the bonnet with the first batch and that has come out well with a good match to the shell.
This is why I asked about the underlying colour and whether that could be affecting things.
If so I'd go back and have a word,tell them their 2nd mix didn't match the 1st and ask them what they are going to do about it.They should at least give you the paint for nothing.
A good paint mixer will be able to tint the paint if it isn't spot on so long as he has a sample to go off,which you have.
Just to let you know red is a bugger to match because once sprayed and dried it will be darker than what's in your tin.
I could blend your 100ml in and you wouldn't be able to tell but like I say I wouldn't recommend you try that.
I've just re-read your 1st post.You painted the doors 1st and then the shell so you want the 2nd batch of paint not the 1st.
Confusing myself now lol.
Have you got any paint left from when you did the shell or is that the 100 ml you were talking about ?
That is the 100ml I have left.
But the strange thing is I am pretty sure I painted the bonnet with the first batch and that has come out well with a good match to the shell.
This is why I asked about the underlying colour and whether that could be affecting things.
Edited by V8covin on Wednesday 23 November 18:44
Edited by V8covin on Wednesday 23 November 18:46
V8covin said:
If you'd sprayed over black that would affect the final colour but if you used the same colour primer all over then no it won't be down to that.
In total I purchased 3 seperate batches of paint from the same shop.I think the first and the last batch were/are the same shade.
I was having a few problems with contamination when painting the doors and ended up doing them 2 or 3 times! (hence having to buy more paint that I intended..)
It was the second batch of paint that I painted the doors with.
If I go back to the same shop, with the same paint code, is it a lottery whether I get the correct shade, obviously I want the same shade as the first and last batch purchased.
I will then remove the doors and paint them again next week.
As long as I sand down with 1200 grit to remove any gloss I do not need to apply more primer?
Cheers
How much paint would you say is the min required to spray both doors??
The reason I ask is I have just measured out what I have left from painting the shell and it is 300ml. By the time I add hardner that makes 450ml and after thinners it over 500ml.
The problem I could have is getting the last couple of hundred ml from the bottom of the spray gun when spraying?
Cheers
The reason I ask is I have just measured out what I have left from painting the shell and it is 300ml. By the time I add hardner that makes 450ml and after thinners it over 500ml.
The problem I could have is getting the last couple of hundred ml from the bottom of the spray gun when spraying?
Cheers
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