Orange peel removal!!
Discussion
Yep, its the old story of people who think a £300 tin a polish is going to do a better job than a £10 tin.
There is no way you can convince people otherwise. If I was the paint guy on here I'd just double my prices regardless of the time involved because there is such an expectation of a higher price that he would obviously do more business.
The laugh would be to put a few cars together and ask the armchair experts how long they think each has taken. I'd fall off my seat if they were in any way accurate.
I remember contributing to a thread on PH where a chap asked about home spraying, and between the health a safety nuts, and the 'its a mystical art' that requires you to be born with the ability, or spend half your life in a monastery studing types, I was drowned out and the guy was effectively put off.
Its a shame really because its quite rewarding when it all goes well.
There is no way you can convince people otherwise. If I was the paint guy on here I'd just double my prices regardless of the time involved because there is such an expectation of a higher price that he would obviously do more business.
The laugh would be to put a few cars together and ask the armchair experts how long they think each has taken. I'd fall off my seat if they were in any way accurate.
I remember contributing to a thread on PH where a chap asked about home spraying, and between the health a safety nuts, and the 'its a mystical art' that requires you to be born with the ability, or spend half your life in a monastery studing types, I was drowned out and the guy was effectively put off.
Its a shame really because its quite rewarding when it all goes well.
julian64 said:
Yep, its the old story of people who think a £300 tin a polish is going to do a better job than a £10 tin.
There is no way you can convince people otherwise. If I was the paint guy on here I'd just double my prices regardless of the time involved because there is such an expectation of a higher price that he would obviously do more business.
The laugh would be to put a few cars together and ask the armchair experts how long they think each has taken. I'd fall off my seat if they were in any way accurate.
I remember contributing to a thread on PH where a chap asked about home spraying, and between the health a safety nuts, and the 'its a mystical art' that requires you to be born with the ability, or spend half your life in a monastery studing types, I was drowned out and the guy was effectively put off.
Its a shame really because its quite rewarding when it all goes well.
But a nightmare if it goes wrong! And the chances are if you've got no experience it will go wrong - in as much as it will either look like a DIY job or will fall off at a later date. There is no way you can convince people otherwise. If I was the paint guy on here I'd just double my prices regardless of the time involved because there is such an expectation of a higher price that he would obviously do more business.
The laugh would be to put a few cars together and ask the armchair experts how long they think each has taken. I'd fall off my seat if they were in any way accurate.
I remember contributing to a thread on PH where a chap asked about home spraying, and between the health a safety nuts, and the 'its a mystical art' that requires you to be born with the ability, or spend half your life in a monastery studing types, I was drowned out and the guy was effectively put off.
Its a shame really because its quite rewarding when it all goes well.
To get it right first time round isn't really going to happen.
Squiggs take a look at this thread, I know what you are saying but some guys can do it with no experience, Trooper did an amazing job
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
Yes pro detailing jobs are good, bodyshops can do exactly the same thing. It's just detailing is the latest craze and you can't go on any car forum without there being a thread about how someone has used 437 different waxes, 37 different polishes , 765 different polishing pads etc..... To achieve the final product. It gets a lot of attention, if detailing wasn't everywhere you look would people take the work to the bodyshops?
Painters can do it quick because they have to. The last car I resprayed it took me about 2hrs to get rid of any orange peel and dirt in the paint. Doesn't mean it's not a good job, it was black aswell so everything was visible. The car still looks good today and that was maybe 18 months ago.
Painters can do it quick because they have to. The last car I resprayed it took me about 2hrs to get rid of any orange peel and dirt in the paint. Doesn't mean it's not a good job, it was black aswell so everything was visible. The car still looks good today and that was maybe 18 months ago.
jds32 said:
Painters can do it quick because they have to. The last car I resprayed it took me about 2hrs to get rid of any orange peel and dirt in the paint. Doesn't mean it's not a good job, it was black aswell so everything was visible. The car still looks good today and that was maybe 18 months ago.
we too paint at KDS and have been for many years , been around the industry from leaving school , so are we detailers or are we painters or are we both .
We are very busy correcting work thats been done in hours , infact this keeps us going and without it would have half the amount of work .
Now heres a thing please bring this black car to me and i will eat humble pie (all thou i wont be) , if its as you say i will pay for the travelling expenses to do so and hand you £1000 cash , and i do mean it .
or pop in and i will select a car or you can select a car and demo to me your master ways and again if i am proved wrong then hand you over £1000 cash for 2 hours work .
I will be wiping the car down and inspecting with correct light source to absolutely make sure you are going to make me look silly
i will be the first to post the fact and be very honest in doing so .
kelly
JulesB said:
Squiggs take a look at this thread, I know what you are saying but some guys can do it with no experience, Trooper did an amazing job
I'm not denying that a DIYer can't sometimes do a reasonable job and Troopers job does look acceptable. Very acceptable.Granted on the face of it it's simple ... flat back and polish up - it's that quick! It's that easy!
But I've seen flat and polish jobs where I've seen polished paint (as opposed to polished lacquer) and jobs where over time the flatting marks have started to show through again - yet amazingly the owner thinks it looks great.
But I'm sure under closer scrutiny a top pro looking at a job done by someone with little or no experience or when looking at a quick job would find loads of imperfections.
Like I keep saying it all depends on what is required at the end of the job - an 'improvement' or 'as near to perfection as possible'?
'As near to perfection as possible' will only be achieved with experience and a lot of time ... there is no other way.
kds keltec said:
we too paint at KDS and have been for many years , been around the industry from leaving school , so are we detailers or are we painters or are we both .
We are very busy correcting work thats been done in hours , infact this keeps us going and without it would have half the amount of work .
Now heres a thing please bring this black car to me and i will eat humble pie (all thou i wont be) , if its as you say i will pay for the travelling expenses to do so and hand you £1000 cash , and i do mean it .
or pop in and i will select a car or you can select a car and demo to me your master ways and again if i am proved wrong then hand you over £1000 cash for 2 hours work .
I will be wiping the car down and inspecting with correct light source to absolutely make sure you are going to make me look silly
i will be the first to post the fact and be very honest in doing so .
kelly
I hate the motor industry sometimes, complete outsiders pretending to be experts. I know its a bloke thing to be good at cars but sometimes I think the IT experts should back down
Kelly undoubtedly you are good at what you do, clearly you run a good business and leave many a happy customer and clearly you are proud of what you do, but it doesnt mean no one else can do it just as well!
Squiggs said:
I'm not denying that a DIYer can't sometimes do a reasonable job and Troopers job does look acceptable. Very acceptable.
Granted on the face of it it's simple ... flat back and polish up - it's that quick! It's that easy!
But I've seen flat and polish jobs where I've seen polished paint (as opposed to polished lacquer) and jobs where over time the flatting marks have started to show through again - yet amazingly the owner thinks it looks great.
But I'm sure under closer scrutiny a top pro looking at a job done by someone with little or no experience or when looking at a quick job would find loads of imperfections.
Like I keep saying it all depends on what is required at the end of the job - an 'improvement' or 'as near to perfection as possible'?
'As near to perfection as possible' will only be achieved with experience and a lot of time ... there is no other way.
Id happily give Trooper a job if the quality of his work is as true as the photos lead you to believe.Granted on the face of it it's simple ... flat back and polish up - it's that quick! It's that easy!
But I've seen flat and polish jobs where I've seen polished paint (as opposed to polished lacquer) and jobs where over time the flatting marks have started to show through again - yet amazingly the owner thinks it looks great.
But I'm sure under closer scrutiny a top pro looking at a job done by someone with little or no experience or when looking at a quick job would find loads of imperfections.
Like I keep saying it all depends on what is required at the end of the job - an 'improvement' or 'as near to perfection as possible'?
'As near to perfection as possible' will only be achieved with experience and a lot of time ... there is no other way.
You are right! But on the other hand I could look at any 'pros' job and find defects, a repair is a repair and will never be perfect unfortunatley.
I personally think there is no point in doing the repair unless you can get it spot on, none of this silly improvement business, if you can still see it then it is not fixed!
Well this just got very interesting.
I hope and pray this doesn't get too heated because there's a lot of confidence and some strong opinions being demonstrated by various people on this thread, and one way or another the proof in the pudding will be a genuine learning experience for someone.
I hope, gesturing about eating humble pie and bets aside, that you guys do meet and have a chat.
I hope and pray this doesn't get too heated because there's a lot of confidence and some strong opinions being demonstrated by various people on this thread, and one way or another the proof in the pudding will be a genuine learning experience for someone.
I hope, gesturing about eating humble pie and bets aside, that you guys do meet and have a chat.
JulesB said:
...im told im underpriced and obviously a liar or no good!
....I know its a bloke thing to be good at cars but sometimes I think the IT experts should back down
Let's get 2 things clear;....I know its a bloke thing to be good at cars but sometimes I think the IT experts should back down
1) No one, anywhere on this thread, has called you a liar.
2) You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about my job. To understand why I want to question, let me be more specific; I'm Kelly's IT expert.
Gio G said:
Jaykaybi said:
Actually, while we're waiting for Jules to come back with pics of his work (which I genuinely can't wait to see - if they're as good as his confidence suggests, I'll be booking in my car), I'll contribute something meaningful for the OP.
Gio G, the job in this link was 80 hours of tiring manual labour on the paintwork. I can tell you that for 80 hours work, the culmination of 20+ years of expertise in wet sanding, and the quality of result you'll get (and remember it's permanent), the price you'd be paying KDS to correct your A4 is in fact laughably cheap.
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.p...
Thanks Jaykaybi,Gio G, the job in this link was 80 hours of tiring manual labour on the paintwork. I can tell you that for 80 hours work, the culmination of 20+ years of expertise in wet sanding, and the quality of result you'll get (and remember it's permanent), the price you'd be paying KDS to correct your A4 is in fact laughably cheap.
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.p...
KDS in the link above said:
Now getting into the reason you pay to have a professional detail, as well as the equipment needed.
First thing is to inspect the paint for flaws and but more important is to measure the paint depth to build up a map of the car's varying paint depth giving the detailer the information needed to be confident the car can have the wet sand and machine polish process.
The measurements were taken all over the cars panels to gain an average figure:
First thing is to inspect the paint for flaws and but more important is to measure the paint depth to build up a map of the car's varying paint depth giving the detailer the information needed to be confident the car can have the wet sand and machine polish process.
The measurements were taken all over the cars panels to gain an average figure:
So what you are saying is use Kelly @ KDS? Have to admit that M3 was pretty bad, on refelction my Audi is not that bad.
New BMWS are s
t for orange peel effect. I'm thinking about letting Kelly loose on my latest purchase for a wet sand - it'll have to wait until next year though when I have the readies!Edited by J-P on Wednesday 27th June 11:46
TonyHetherington said:
Let's get 2 things clear;
1) No one, anywhere on this thread, has called you a liar.
2) You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about my job. To understand why I want to question, let me be more specific; I'm Kelly's IT expert.
1) Sorry, indirectly branded as such, certainly got called out on my pricing structure which I feel is a tad uncalled for. 1) No one, anywhere on this thread, has called you a liar.
2) You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about my job. To understand why I want to question, let me be more specific; I'm Kelly's IT expert.
2) No not so much your job, but people that do not work repairing/detailing cars that think they are experts. We had a couple girls running the front desk - indirectly related to the motor trade like yourself - but it does not mean they had a clue when it came to the cars.
P.S. I dont think bee powered cars will catch on.
JulesB said:
kds keltec said:
we too paint at KDS and have been for many years , been around the industry from leaving school , so are we detailers or are we painters or are we both .
We are very busy correcting work thats been done in hours , infact this keeps us going and without it would have half the amount of work .
Now heres a thing please bring this black car to me and i will eat humble pie (all thou i wont be) , if its as you say i will pay for the travelling expenses to do so and hand you £1000 cash , and i do mean it .
or pop in and i will select a car or you can select a car and demo to me your master ways and again if i am proved wrong then hand you over £1000 cash for 2 hours work .
I will be wiping the car down and inspecting with correct light source to absolutely make sure you are going to make me look silly
i will be the first to post the fact and be very honest in doing so .
kelly
Merely trying to understand how you could do so much, have it still be a quality job, in (what seemed to me) a relatively short period of time. I've no doubt that your quote and estimate are genuine, but I wanted to understand how when I'd be thinking much more than double.
That's a fair comment - and girls on the service desk is a good example, but in fairness I've been around Kelly now for 2 years and we speak in detail every day about all aspects of the job - so while I'd never claim to be able to do the job myself, I know explicitly what/how long/how a chap who can, does
That's a fair comment - and girls on the service desk is a good example, but in fairness I've been around Kelly now for 2 years and we speak in detail every day about all aspects of the job - so while I'd never claim to be able to do the job myself, I know explicitly what/how long/how a chap who can, does
Jaykaybi said:
Jules, can I just ask if you actually would be prepared to make a trip round to KDS some time? The reason is, you remind me (rather a lot) of my younger self in some ways, and the benefit of experience and hindsight tells me that actually meeting Kelly would be an eye-opener for you, and valuable to your career. I'm not interested in seeing you called out; I reckon you'll leave feeling encouraged. And hey, there's still that chance you could walk away with a grand!
You guys are based down in Kent arent you? I would love to come pay you all a visit and see how/what you guys get up to. Please do send me your details, I will be in Kent in August/September time. I do hope this offer is genuine
JulesB said:
Jaykaybi said:
Jules, can I just ask if you actually would be prepared to make a trip round to KDS some time? The reason is, you remind me (rather a lot) of my younger self in some ways, and the benefit of experience and hindsight tells me that actually meeting Kelly would be an eye-opener for you, and valuable to your career. I'm not interested in seeing you called out; I reckon you'll leave feeling encouraged. And hey, there's still that chance you could walk away with a grand!
You guys are based down in Kent arent you? I would love to come pay you all a visit and see how/what you guys get up to. Please do send me your details, I will be in Kent in August/September time. I do hope this offer is genuine
JulesB said:
Id happily give Trooper a job if the quality of his work is as true as the photos lead you to believe.
You are right! But on the other hand I could look at any 'pros' job and find defects, a repair is a repair and will never be perfect unfortunatley.
I personally think there is no point in doing the repair unless you can get it spot on, none of this silly improvement business, if you can still see it then it is not fixed!
This is where our views differ then ...You are right! But on the other hand I could look at any 'pros' job and find defects, a repair is a repair and will never be perfect unfortunatley.
I personally think there is no point in doing the repair unless you can get it spot on, none of this silly improvement business, if you can still see it then it is not fixed!
I'm a Smart repairer and I can do my job well, more often than not without defects and to perfection. But I would never take on a whole car - because I know it's a different skill set and I couldn't guarantee I could turn out a good job first time round - whereas a pro bodysprayer can turn out good job after good job.
Similarly I can flat back and polish, I could improve the finish and leave a car looking better than it was. But I wouldn't take on a detailing job because it's a different skill set.
I've done repair jobs for a very well known and respected pro detailer, but I'd be stupid to think I could achieve the perfect finish that he does. I haven't the knowledge when it comes to matching polishing heads/to product/to paint for one thing.
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