Polish Twice? Wax Twice? Worth it?
Discussion
I've just washed and polished my Tuscan (zymol 2 buckets and Auto Glym polish) and it looks good but not amazing. I was about to wax it with Meguiars Deep Crystal Carnuba Wax and wondered if it was worth either polishing it again or waxing it twice??
Please not I'm not a pro, nor am I expecting a pro finish. I've just got to take a groom to the church on his wedding day next Saturday and want the car to look the best it can with only me (and no machines) working on it. So would a second polish or 2 lots of wax improve the overall finish? I didn't want to polish it again without asking in case it took another microlayer of paint off.
Thanks all
Please not I'm not a pro, nor am I expecting a pro finish. I've just got to take a groom to the church on his wedding day next Saturday and want the car to look the best it can with only me (and no machines) working on it. So would a second polish or 2 lots of wax improve the overall finish? I didn't want to polish it again without asking in case it took another microlayer of paint off.
Thanks all
I will generalise this
Polishing, (depending on what you’re using)
Zaino Z2 and Z5 are called polish but have not cut / cleaning what so ever.
Auto Glym SRP has light cut and fillers
And this taken from auto express test
Top five car polishes
1. Turtle Wax Platinum Extra Gloss
2. Turtle Wax Gloss Guard
3. Comma Car Polish
4. Simoniz Original Wax
5. CarPlan Nanomeric Paintwork Seal & Protec
But none of the 5 above are polishes they are protection .
So the word polish is miss used a lot .
If you are using a light cutting compound / fine compound then its termed a polish .
Polishing with a REAL polish will get the results your after better clarity to the paints finish . remove fine swirls and wash marring.
Then the wax is used to protect the freshly polished surface .
The blur between them is that waxes have gloss enhancers and fillers so give the operator applying the wax the sense they are cutting and polishing the surface as they buff , when they are not , hence why they can be miss called a polish .
For something in between you have DODO juice lime prime prep wax cleanser, this has a light cutting action (so polishing) and glazing oils to make the paint look shiny at the same time.
My summary
Compound - Or sometime called rubbing compound. Used to remove heavy contamination, oxidisation, scratches, swirl marks and many other imperfections.
Polish - Less abrasive than a compound, designed to remove light scratches, contamination, swirl marks, oxidisation and other defects.
Glaze - A glaze is not abrasive, so will not remove defects or imperfections. It will improve the gloss finish by temporarily filling in swirl marks or other minor defects.
Pre-Wax Cleaner - Less abrasive than a polish, containing chemical cleaners to help remove very minor imperfections.
Waxes
Synthetic Waxes/Sealants
These waxes are man made, they have been developed to provide long lasting protection for your vehicles paint finish, and another benfiting factor is their ease of application. Quality synthetic waxes can last up to 6 months, the end result from applying a synthetic wax/sealant is a very reflective one and metallic flake is shown off to the highest level.
However, some people feel it lacks depth, richness and the warm glow produced by a carnauba wax. The big manufacturers have taken this on-board and are producing waxes which match these properties of the carnauba waxes.
In 2006 a new type of synthetic protection came along - the introduction of Nano Technology (each molecule = 1,000,000/mm3 = one millionth of a cubed millimetre). In laymans terms this means better adhesion to your paintwork and to itself giving a greater density of acrylic seal, thus creating a molecular blanket of protection. This new technology is highly resistant to detergent, acids and hard minerals. The molecules are much smaller than water or acid molecules, so these harmful elements cannot penetrate this coating.
Synthetic waxes/sealants can be layered to increase protection, reflection and will create brilliance to your finish. An advantage with synthetic waxes is you can add an acceleration additive which will promote cross-linking, reduce drying time, increase gloss factor, extend durability level, and instantly cure to allow multiple immediate coats! No more waiting between coats!
Carnauba Waxes
Carnauba waxes are the traditional automotive paintwork protection. Carnauba wax is secreted by the leaves of a tree in the Brazilian rainforest, it's one of natures most durable waxes. Most carnauba waxes use Grade 1 yellow carnauba in their formulations, Grade 1 is the highest grade of carnauba wax available. Usually the more expensive the wax, the higher the percentage of carnauba (up to 79% if you are willing pay £18,000).
Where the synthetic waxes give a more reflective finish, the carnauba waxes will give your paintwork a warm glow and a greater depth. Because the wax is yellow and not completely transparent the finish will give a slightly muted effect on metallic flake finishes. Manufacturers are now refining the yellow carnauba to white which will help reduce the yellowing effect and increase that sparkle effect, white carnauba is used in the more expensive waxes at the moment (about £100+). Also a carnauba wax will give a much better sheeting/beading property than a synthetic wax.
Carnauba waxes usually have a lower durability than synthetic waxes/sealants, especially on darker cars in the summer months (carnauba wax will evaporate) and will require topping up on a regular basis. Carnauba waxes can be layered to improve durability and appearance, but too many layers will cause a yellowing effect where the opacity builds up.
And lastly the nano sealents
These can be engineered to be very long lasting, much harder to apply correctly, more expensive, fussy with atmospherics, types of paint sub materials being applied onto and so on.
Only really best for pro application or with some training and supervision, (all thou products are being re-engineered all the time to counter react the above)
As taken from the marketing of such coatings
Quartz Composite Lacquer forms a submicron 100% clear quartz film which is extremely hard and provides a durable, stain resistant surface that repels salt, oil, water and dirt. These characteristics are unbeatable for long-term surface care since your car will require less washing as dirt, bugs and road tar are washed away very easily.
This combined with the hardness of the coating all help to prevent premature paintwork dulling from microscratches caused by frequent vigorous car washes to remove previously hard to remove surface contaminants. C1 has been independently proven to have the strongest UV filters of any paint protection system on the market and forms the strongest barrier against bird droppings.
So polish is more important then wax for looks to the paint ,
And waxes/sealents/ nano sealents (AKA LSP’s last step protection) is more important for protection then looks to the paint.
But there are products on the market that are called AIO's (all in one) , like zaino AIO , carlack 68 which are man made synthetic cleansers/cut and protection in one bottle just to confuse matters even more.
HTH Kelly
Polishing, (depending on what you’re using)
Zaino Z2 and Z5 are called polish but have not cut / cleaning what so ever.
Auto Glym SRP has light cut and fillers
And this taken from auto express test
Top five car polishes
1. Turtle Wax Platinum Extra Gloss
2. Turtle Wax Gloss Guard
3. Comma Car Polish
4. Simoniz Original Wax
5. CarPlan Nanomeric Paintwork Seal & Protec
But none of the 5 above are polishes they are protection .
So the word polish is miss used a lot .
If you are using a light cutting compound / fine compound then its termed a polish .
Polishing with a REAL polish will get the results your after better clarity to the paints finish . remove fine swirls and wash marring.
Then the wax is used to protect the freshly polished surface .
The blur between them is that waxes have gloss enhancers and fillers so give the operator applying the wax the sense they are cutting and polishing the surface as they buff , when they are not , hence why they can be miss called a polish .
For something in between you have DODO juice lime prime prep wax cleanser, this has a light cutting action (so polishing) and glazing oils to make the paint look shiny at the same time.
My summary
Compound - Or sometime called rubbing compound. Used to remove heavy contamination, oxidisation, scratches, swirl marks and many other imperfections.
Polish - Less abrasive than a compound, designed to remove light scratches, contamination, swirl marks, oxidisation and other defects.
Glaze - A glaze is not abrasive, so will not remove defects or imperfections. It will improve the gloss finish by temporarily filling in swirl marks or other minor defects.
Pre-Wax Cleaner - Less abrasive than a polish, containing chemical cleaners to help remove very minor imperfections.
Waxes
Synthetic Waxes/Sealants
These waxes are man made, they have been developed to provide long lasting protection for your vehicles paint finish, and another benfiting factor is their ease of application. Quality synthetic waxes can last up to 6 months, the end result from applying a synthetic wax/sealant is a very reflective one and metallic flake is shown off to the highest level.
However, some people feel it lacks depth, richness and the warm glow produced by a carnauba wax. The big manufacturers have taken this on-board and are producing waxes which match these properties of the carnauba waxes.
In 2006 a new type of synthetic protection came along - the introduction of Nano Technology (each molecule = 1,000,000/mm3 = one millionth of a cubed millimetre). In laymans terms this means better adhesion to your paintwork and to itself giving a greater density of acrylic seal, thus creating a molecular blanket of protection. This new technology is highly resistant to detergent, acids and hard minerals. The molecules are much smaller than water or acid molecules, so these harmful elements cannot penetrate this coating.
Synthetic waxes/sealants can be layered to increase protection, reflection and will create brilliance to your finish. An advantage with synthetic waxes is you can add an acceleration additive which will promote cross-linking, reduce drying time, increase gloss factor, extend durability level, and instantly cure to allow multiple immediate coats! No more waiting between coats!
Carnauba Waxes
Carnauba waxes are the traditional automotive paintwork protection. Carnauba wax is secreted by the leaves of a tree in the Brazilian rainforest, it's one of natures most durable waxes. Most carnauba waxes use Grade 1 yellow carnauba in their formulations, Grade 1 is the highest grade of carnauba wax available. Usually the more expensive the wax, the higher the percentage of carnauba (up to 79% if you are willing pay £18,000).
Where the synthetic waxes give a more reflective finish, the carnauba waxes will give your paintwork a warm glow and a greater depth. Because the wax is yellow and not completely transparent the finish will give a slightly muted effect on metallic flake finishes. Manufacturers are now refining the yellow carnauba to white which will help reduce the yellowing effect and increase that sparkle effect, white carnauba is used in the more expensive waxes at the moment (about £100+). Also a carnauba wax will give a much better sheeting/beading property than a synthetic wax.
Carnauba waxes usually have a lower durability than synthetic waxes/sealants, especially on darker cars in the summer months (carnauba wax will evaporate) and will require topping up on a regular basis. Carnauba waxes can be layered to improve durability and appearance, but too many layers will cause a yellowing effect where the opacity builds up.
And lastly the nano sealents
These can be engineered to be very long lasting, much harder to apply correctly, more expensive, fussy with atmospherics, types of paint sub materials being applied onto and so on.
Only really best for pro application or with some training and supervision, (all thou products are being re-engineered all the time to counter react the above)
As taken from the marketing of such coatings
Quartz Composite Lacquer forms a submicron 100% clear quartz film which is extremely hard and provides a durable, stain resistant surface that repels salt, oil, water and dirt. These characteristics are unbeatable for long-term surface care since your car will require less washing as dirt, bugs and road tar are washed away very easily.
This combined with the hardness of the coating all help to prevent premature paintwork dulling from microscratches caused by frequent vigorous car washes to remove previously hard to remove surface contaminants. C1 has been independently proven to have the strongest UV filters of any paint protection system on the market and forms the strongest barrier against bird droppings.
So polish is more important then wax for looks to the paint ,
And waxes/sealents/ nano sealents (AKA LSP’s last step protection) is more important for protection then looks to the paint.
But there are products on the market that are called AIO's (all in one) , like zaino AIO , carlack 68 which are man made synthetic cleansers/cut and protection in one bottle just to confuse matters even more.
HTH Kelly
kds keltec said:
I will generalise this
Polishing, (depending on what you’re using)
Zaino Z2 and Z5 are called polish but have not cut / cleaning what so ever.
Auto Glym SRP has light cut and fillers
And this taken from auto express test
Top five car polishes
1. Turtle Wax Platinum Extra Gloss
2. Turtle Wax Gloss Guard
3. Comma Car Polish
4. Simoniz Original Wax
5. CarPlan Nanomeric Paintwork Seal & Protec
But none of the 5 above are polishes they are protection .
So the word polish is miss used a lot .
If you are using a light cutting compound / fine compound then its termed a polish .
Polishing with a REAL polish will get the results your after better clarity to the paints finish . remove fine swirls and wash marring.
Then the wax is used to protect the freshly polished surface .
The blur between them is that waxes have gloss enhancers and fillers so give the operator applying the wax the sense they are cutting and polishing the surface as they buff , when they are not , hence why they can be miss called a polish .
For something in between you have DODO juice lime prime prep wax cleanser, this has a light cutting action (so polishing) and glazing oils to make the paint look shiny at the same time.
My summary
Compound - Or sometime called rubbing compound. Used to remove heavy contamination, oxidisation, scratches, swirl marks and many other imperfections.
Polish - Less abrasive than a compound, designed to remove light scratches, contamination, swirl marks, oxidisation and other defects.
Glaze - A glaze is not abrasive, so will not remove defects or imperfections. It will improve the gloss finish by temporarily filling in swirl marks or other minor defects.
Pre-Wax Cleaner - Less abrasive than a polish, containing chemical cleaners to help remove very minor imperfections.
Waxes
Synthetic Waxes/Sealants
These waxes are man made, they have been developed to provide long lasting protection for your vehicles paint finish, and another benfiting factor is their ease of application. Quality synthetic waxes can last up to 6 months, the end result from applying a synthetic wax/sealant is a very reflective one and metallic flake is shown off to the highest level.
However, some people feel it lacks depth, richness and the warm glow produced by a carnauba wax. The big manufacturers have taken this on-board and are producing waxes which match these properties of the carnauba waxes.
In 2006 a new type of synthetic protection came along - the introduction of Nano Technology (each molecule = 1,000,000/mm3 = one millionth of a cubed millimetre). In laymans terms this means better adhesion to your paintwork and to itself giving a greater density of acrylic seal, thus creating a molecular blanket of protection. This new technology is highly resistant to detergent, acids and hard minerals. The molecules are much smaller than water or acid molecules, so these harmful elements cannot penetrate this coating.
Synthetic waxes/sealants can be layered to increase protection, reflection and will create brilliance to your finish. An advantage with synthetic waxes is you can add an acceleration additive which will promote cross-linking, reduce drying time, increase gloss factor, extend durability level, and instantly cure to allow multiple immediate coats! No more waiting between coats!
Carnauba Waxes
Carnauba waxes are the traditional automotive paintwork protection. Carnauba wax is secreted by the leaves of a tree in the Brazilian rainforest, it's one of natures most durable waxes. Most carnauba waxes use Grade 1 yellow carnauba in their formulations, Grade 1 is the highest grade of carnauba wax available. Usually the more expensive the wax, the higher the percentage of carnauba (up to 79% if you are willing pay £18,000).
Where the synthetic waxes give a more reflective finish, the carnauba waxes will give your paintwork a warm glow and a greater depth. Because the wax is yellow and not completely transparent the finish will give a slightly muted effect on metallic flake finishes. Manufacturers are now refining the yellow carnauba to white which will help reduce the yellowing effect and increase that sparkle effect, white carnauba is used in the more expensive waxes at the moment (about £100+). Also a carnauba wax will give a much better sheeting/beading property than a synthetic wax.
Carnauba waxes usually have a lower durability than synthetic waxes/sealants, especially on darker cars in the summer months (carnauba wax will evaporate) and will require topping up on a regular basis. Carnauba waxes can be layered to improve durability and appearance, but too many layers will cause a yellowing effect where the opacity builds up.
And lastly the nano sealents
These can be engineered to be very long lasting, much harder to apply correctly, more expensive, fussy with atmospherics, types of paint sub materials being applied onto and so on.
Only really best for pro application or with some training and supervision, (all thou products are being re-engineered all the time to counter react the above)
As taken from the marketing of such coatings
Quartz Composite Lacquer forms a submicron 100% clear quartz film which is extremely hard and provides a durable, stain resistant surface that repels salt, oil, water and dirt. These characteristics are unbeatable for long-term surface care since your car will require less washing as dirt, bugs and road tar are washed away very easily.
This combined with the hardness of the coating all help to prevent premature paintwork dulling from microscratches caused by frequent vigorous car washes to remove previously hard to remove surface contaminants. C1 has been independently proven to have the strongest UV filters of any paint protection system on the market and forms the strongest barrier against bird droppings.
So polish is more important then wax for looks to the paint ,
And waxes/sealents/ nano sealents (AKA LSP’s last step protection) is more important for protection then looks to the paint.
But there are products on the market that are called AIO's (all in one) , like zaino AIO , carlack 68 which are man made synthetic cleansers/cut and protection in one bottle just to confuse matters even more.
HTH Kelly
Kelly,Polishing, (depending on what you’re using)
Zaino Z2 and Z5 are called polish but have not cut / cleaning what so ever.
Auto Glym SRP has light cut and fillers
And this taken from auto express test
Top five car polishes
1. Turtle Wax Platinum Extra Gloss
2. Turtle Wax Gloss Guard
3. Comma Car Polish
4. Simoniz Original Wax
5. CarPlan Nanomeric Paintwork Seal & Protec
But none of the 5 above are polishes they are protection .
So the word polish is miss used a lot .
If you are using a light cutting compound / fine compound then its termed a polish .
Polishing with a REAL polish will get the results your after better clarity to the paints finish . remove fine swirls and wash marring.
Then the wax is used to protect the freshly polished surface .
The blur between them is that waxes have gloss enhancers and fillers so give the operator applying the wax the sense they are cutting and polishing the surface as they buff , when they are not , hence why they can be miss called a polish .
For something in between you have DODO juice lime prime prep wax cleanser, this has a light cutting action (so polishing) and glazing oils to make the paint look shiny at the same time.
My summary
Compound - Or sometime called rubbing compound. Used to remove heavy contamination, oxidisation, scratches, swirl marks and many other imperfections.
Polish - Less abrasive than a compound, designed to remove light scratches, contamination, swirl marks, oxidisation and other defects.
Glaze - A glaze is not abrasive, so will not remove defects or imperfections. It will improve the gloss finish by temporarily filling in swirl marks or other minor defects.
Pre-Wax Cleaner - Less abrasive than a polish, containing chemical cleaners to help remove very minor imperfections.
Waxes
Synthetic Waxes/Sealants
These waxes are man made, they have been developed to provide long lasting protection for your vehicles paint finish, and another benfiting factor is their ease of application. Quality synthetic waxes can last up to 6 months, the end result from applying a synthetic wax/sealant is a very reflective one and metallic flake is shown off to the highest level.
However, some people feel it lacks depth, richness and the warm glow produced by a carnauba wax. The big manufacturers have taken this on-board and are producing waxes which match these properties of the carnauba waxes.
In 2006 a new type of synthetic protection came along - the introduction of Nano Technology (each molecule = 1,000,000/mm3 = one millionth of a cubed millimetre). In laymans terms this means better adhesion to your paintwork and to itself giving a greater density of acrylic seal, thus creating a molecular blanket of protection. This new technology is highly resistant to detergent, acids and hard minerals. The molecules are much smaller than water or acid molecules, so these harmful elements cannot penetrate this coating.
Synthetic waxes/sealants can be layered to increase protection, reflection and will create brilliance to your finish. An advantage with synthetic waxes is you can add an acceleration additive which will promote cross-linking, reduce drying time, increase gloss factor, extend durability level, and instantly cure to allow multiple immediate coats! No more waiting between coats!
Carnauba Waxes
Carnauba waxes are the traditional automotive paintwork protection. Carnauba wax is secreted by the leaves of a tree in the Brazilian rainforest, it's one of natures most durable waxes. Most carnauba waxes use Grade 1 yellow carnauba in their formulations, Grade 1 is the highest grade of carnauba wax available. Usually the more expensive the wax, the higher the percentage of carnauba (up to 79% if you are willing pay £18,000).
Where the synthetic waxes give a more reflective finish, the carnauba waxes will give your paintwork a warm glow and a greater depth. Because the wax is yellow and not completely transparent the finish will give a slightly muted effect on metallic flake finishes. Manufacturers are now refining the yellow carnauba to white which will help reduce the yellowing effect and increase that sparkle effect, white carnauba is used in the more expensive waxes at the moment (about £100+). Also a carnauba wax will give a much better sheeting/beading property than a synthetic wax.
Carnauba waxes usually have a lower durability than synthetic waxes/sealants, especially on darker cars in the summer months (carnauba wax will evaporate) and will require topping up on a regular basis. Carnauba waxes can be layered to improve durability and appearance, but too many layers will cause a yellowing effect where the opacity builds up.
And lastly the nano sealents
These can be engineered to be very long lasting, much harder to apply correctly, more expensive, fussy with atmospherics, types of paint sub materials being applied onto and so on.
Only really best for pro application or with some training and supervision, (all thou products are being re-engineered all the time to counter react the above)
As taken from the marketing of such coatings
Quartz Composite Lacquer forms a submicron 100% clear quartz film which is extremely hard and provides a durable, stain resistant surface that repels salt, oil, water and dirt. These characteristics are unbeatable for long-term surface care since your car will require less washing as dirt, bugs and road tar are washed away very easily.
This combined with the hardness of the coating all help to prevent premature paintwork dulling from microscratches caused by frequent vigorous car washes to remove previously hard to remove surface contaminants. C1 has been independently proven to have the strongest UV filters of any paint protection system on the market and forms the strongest barrier against bird droppings.
So polish is more important then wax for looks to the paint ,
And waxes/sealents/ nano sealents (AKA LSP’s last step protection) is more important for protection then looks to the paint.
But there are products on the market that are called AIO's (all in one) , like zaino AIO , carlack 68 which are man made synthetic cleansers/cut and protection in one bottle just to confuse matters even more.
HTH Kelly
Great write up as always, this I am sure will help people understand..
Do you think that the man made/synthetic products will replace real waxes in time? I recently used Megs ultimate finish as an LSP, which has this nano technology, really impressed with the level of protection it gives the paint, as well as locking in a great shine and the flakes really stand out..
Gio G said:
Kelly,
Great write up as always, this I am sure will help people understand..
+1Great write up as always, this I am sure will help people understand..
Really helpful. Thanks very much for taking the time to write this, it really does clear up things. Never new there was so much to plain old "polish" and it actually can mean so many things to different people.
Thanks again.
filetmignon said:
Waxing twice is fine if you're lazy and don't often wash the car, helps the protection last longer.
If you wash fairly regularly anyway then you are just wasting your time (and wax).
The idea of wax IF its actually a wax and not a paste sealent ,all thou paste sealent do the same but also repel contaminants If you wash fairly regularly anyway then you are just wasting your time (and wax).
Sacrificial Protection
sac•ri•fi•cial [:designed to be used up or destroyed]
and the layer of wax "holds" the Contaminants away from the paint surface.
if you wash your car incorrectly this will accelerate the destroying action
It’s proven that each extra application of wax can actually reduce the amount of wax protection left on the paint surface.
TOTALLY depends on person applying and what they are applying.
In a few Indi tests the best (meaning thickest layer) was from one application, the least thick layer coming from 4 layers applied slightly incorrectly.
Just a complete waste of product and time with no extra gain.
BUT 2 layers applied correctly was the holy grail for protection depth , but this varied to much from one operator to another, the idea of 2 coats is "JUST in case you missed any areas on first time"
51 layers of a sealant on a panel that says it can be layered were immeasurable with a paint depth gauge that measures to a single micron.
Even the latest crystal coatings that can form a semi-permanent bond are around .1 - .2 of a single micron all thou I have seen one marketed that its coats the car with 30 microns of protection from 30mils bottle , until i explained it can take around 4-5 litres of clear coat (lacquer) to leave behind the same film thickness 30 microns on a car !
its all about the solvent carrier in the LSP (last step protection) ie waxes / sealents / nano tech products, the solvent that makes them a liquid or paste to help spread and apply the product to and painted surface , this very same solvent CAN remove the first layer if applied incorrectly.
And the factors that change this are type of solvent used / temp / humidity / application pressure / material used to apply product / material used to remove product / length of time for product to "cure" "gas" "flash off" / amount applied / time left between coats "curing" / style of application / interference between different products / paint substrait ie soft hard , medium solid paint high solid paint / and of course product being used .
When you fully understand the chemistry and application of the LSP's on the market it is possible to mix and match to get best possible results and a look and protection that can last over a year , and i have seen this many times on customers car.
A local quick fit fitter popped in on an open day to ask few questions , he had a large pot of dodo juice "pro" wax and said its rubbish and lasts only a few days to a week , in fact he got so angry for wasting his money told me he smashed the pot of wax on the workshop floor in rage.
I Demoed and explain it was all operator error and now he is a massive fan of the same brand of wax and his car is shiny for months and beads water well many many weeks later.
HTH kelly
Edited by kds keltec on Friday 28th September 13:09
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