PU vs Duraflex Fiberglass
Discussion
Which is the better of the 2 in terms of quality? I understand that PU is flexible but will lose shape in the heat (is that the case for all variation of quality) as well being susceptible to cracking in the cold.
Some people claim that there is no difference between duraflex fibre glass and regular fibre glass, however some claim that it is more flexible?
I've done quite a lot of research but I'm unsure which of the 2 to choose, what are your opinions? I'm looking for quality and all that comes with it.
Some people claim that there is no difference between duraflex fibre glass and regular fibre glass, however some claim that it is more flexible?
I've done quite a lot of research but I'm unsure which of the 2 to choose, what are your opinions? I'm looking for quality and all that comes with it.
Edited by kingPanther on Wednesday 18th December 15:15
kingPanther said:
Which is the better of the 2 in terms of quality? I understand that PU is flexible but will lose shape in the heat (is that the case for all variation of quality) as well being susceptible to cracking in the cold.
Some people claim that there is no difference between duraflex fibre glass and regular fibre glass, however some claim that it is more flexible?
I've done quite a lot of research but I'm unsure which of the 2 to choose, what are your opinions? I'm looking for quality and all that comes with it.
bumpSome people claim that there is no difference between duraflex fibre glass and regular fibre glass, however some claim that it is more flexible?
I've done quite a lot of research but I'm unsure which of the 2 to choose, what are your opinions? I'm looking for quality and all that comes with it.
Edited by kingPanther on Wednesday 18th December 15:15
Polyeurethene is 100% better than fibreglass in 90% of applications, most car manufacturers use it to make panels (bumpers, wings etc) because it gives a much better finished product and holds its shape extremely well with little support. It is easily reshaped when damaged with careful use of heat and can be welded if split. Initial tooling and production costs are expensive which puts it out of reach of a lot of aftermarket manufacturers.
Fibreglass is much cheaper to produce one-off or low volume items, is simple to repair using matting and resin and most "laymen" would have the ability to do this. It is however, heavy when built to any sort of strength, tends to ripple and sag when used for flat panels and doesnt resist flexing, causing stress cracks. It can be difficult to prevent air bubbles forming within the resin or gel coat and these often migrate to the surface during painting.
Duraflex is just a brand name of fibreglass with a flashy website to help sell their products (IMHO).
Put some effort into explaining exactly what you want to know and what you want to use it for and you may get more information...
Fibreglass is much cheaper to produce one-off or low volume items, is simple to repair using matting and resin and most "laymen" would have the ability to do this. It is however, heavy when built to any sort of strength, tends to ripple and sag when used for flat panels and doesnt resist flexing, causing stress cracks. It can be difficult to prevent air bubbles forming within the resin or gel coat and these often migrate to the surface during painting.
Duraflex is just a brand name of fibreglass with a flashy website to help sell their products (IMHO).
Put some effort into explaining exactly what you want to know and what you want to use it for and you may get more information...
TallPaul said:
Polyeurethene is 100% better than fibreglass in 90% of applications, most car manufacturers use it to make panels (bumpers, wings etc) because it gives a much better finished product and holds its shape extremely well with little support. It is easily reshaped when damaged with careful use of heat and can be welded if split. Initial tooling and production costs are expensive which puts it out of reach of a lot of aftermarket manufacturers.
Fibreglass is much cheaper to produce one-off or low volume items, is simple to repair using matting and resin and most "laymen" would have the ability to do this. It is however, heavy when built to any sort of strength, tends to ripple and sag when used for flat panels and doesnt resist flexing, causing stress cracks. It can be difficult to prevent air bubbles forming within the resin or gel coat and these often migrate to the surface during painting.
Duraflex is just a brand name of fibreglass with a flashy website to help sell their products (IMHO).
Put some effort into explaining exactly what you want to know and what you want to use it for and you may get more information...
wow, great reply, thanks. What do you think is better, CFRP or PU in your opinion? Is it true that in extreme heat (Norther America or the Middle east) the PU will start to deform and sag? Fibreglass is much cheaper to produce one-off or low volume items, is simple to repair using matting and resin and most "laymen" would have the ability to do this. It is however, heavy when built to any sort of strength, tends to ripple and sag when used for flat panels and doesnt resist flexing, causing stress cracks. It can be difficult to prevent air bubbles forming within the resin or gel coat and these often migrate to the surface during painting.
Duraflex is just a brand name of fibreglass with a flashy website to help sell their products (IMHO).
Put some effort into explaining exactly what you want to know and what you want to use it for and you may get more information...
TallPaul said:
Polyeurethene is 100% better than fibreglass in 90% of applications, most car manufacturers use it to make panels (bumpers, wings etc) because it gives a much better finished product and holds its shape extremely well with little support. It is easily reshaped when damaged with careful use of heat and can be welded if split. Initial tooling and production costs are expensive which puts it out of reach of a lot of aftermarket manufacturers.
Fibreglass is much cheaper to produce one-off or low volume items, is simple to repair using matting and resin and most "laymen" would have the ability to do this. It is however, heavy when built to any sort of strength, tends to ripple and sag when used for flat panels and doesnt resist flexing, causing stress cracks. It can be difficult to prevent air bubbles forming within the resin or gel coat and these often migrate to the surface during painting.
Duraflex is just a brand name of fibreglass with a flashy website to help sell their products (IMHO).
Put some effort into explaining exactly what you want to know and what you want to use it for and you may get more information...
hey, did you get my last post to you?Fibreglass is much cheaper to produce one-off or low volume items, is simple to repair using matting and resin and most "laymen" would have the ability to do this. It is however, heavy when built to any sort of strength, tends to ripple and sag when used for flat panels and doesnt resist flexing, causing stress cracks. It can be difficult to prevent air bubbles forming within the resin or gel coat and these often migrate to the surface during painting.
Duraflex is just a brand name of fibreglass with a flashy website to help sell their products (IMHO).
Put some effort into explaining exactly what you want to know and what you want to use it for and you may get more information...
Yes I saw your post, did you read the last line of mine? What are you asking?
CFRP is better in some applications but not suitable for others. Yes temperature can and does affect PU but most car manufacturers sell the same product in Equatorial countries as they do in the Artic so its not usually an issue.
CFRP is better in some applications but not suitable for others. Yes temperature can and does affect PU but most car manufacturers sell the same product in Equatorial countries as they do in the Artic so its not usually an issue.
TallPaul said:
Yes I saw your post, did you read the last line of mine? What are you asking?
CFRP is better in some applications but not suitable for others. Yes temperature can and does affect PU but most car manufacturers sell the same product in Equatorial countries as they do in the Artic so its not usually an issue.
I need to know this for manufacturing body kits for high-end cars. If you could evaluate the both, what would you go for? CFRP is better in some applications but not suitable for others. Yes temperature can and does affect PU but most car manufacturers sell the same product in Equatorial countries as they do in the Artic so its not usually an issue.
Bobby Shaftoe said:
'DuraFlex' isn't actually a material, it's just a bit of marketing lingo for what looks to be a boggo CSM layup with a resin with a plasticiser additive. If you search on youtube there are scores of people who seem less than impressed with the fit, finish and durability.
If you're just intending to buy a bodykit, go for PU.
If your intending to manufacture some parts there are hundreds of available resin systems, reinforcement cloths, which along with the layup techniques used, massively alter the properties of the finished material, which can vary from items which will break just by looking at them, to literally bullet proof.
You'd be wise to give us some more info if you want useful advice as 'quality' is so ambiguous as to mean sweet FA in this instance.
I want to manufacture for high-end cars. My absolute preference is for durability, weight, finish, ect and I've heard CFRP is easier to fix once broken than CF and more flexible on impact. I've been told FG generally isn't great compared to CF and PU, so hence has left me with these 2-3 option, CF/CFRP and PU. If you're just intending to buy a bodykit, go for PU.
If your intending to manufacture some parts there are hundreds of available resin systems, reinforcement cloths, which along with the layup techniques used, massively alter the properties of the finished material, which can vary from items which will break just by looking at them, to literally bullet proof.
You'd be wise to give us some more info if you want useful advice as 'quality' is so ambiguous as to mean sweet FA in this instance.
What is the ultimate goal, cosmetics or weight saving? If the products are going to be sold more on their appearance then I would suggest quality PU will give the better durability and damage resistance. Aftermarket repairs aren't really going to be your concern are they? If you are making (for example) bumpers, skirts etc then surely if they are involved in a crash, it'll be just as easy to replace the panel rather than try and repair it.
Carbonfibre will obviously be much lighter and can also be extremely strong but its repairs are beyond most "normal" bodyshops. I assume you are talking about pure c/f layup not a c/f & f/g mix.
Personally, I would discount fibreglass as its relatively heavy, and does imply a cheapness to the build quality.
Carbonfibre will obviously be much lighter and can also be extremely strong but its repairs are beyond most "normal" bodyshops. I assume you are talking about pure c/f layup not a c/f & f/g mix.
Personally, I would discount fibreglass as its relatively heavy, and does imply a cheapness to the build quality.
How much research into the market have you done- I would suggest looking at existing suppliers for the type of product you are intending to make and see what materials they are using. I would guess they are all using very similar products for their chosen applications. How are you going to improve on this and what is going to make your product stand out from more established manufacturers?
Although its an incredibly difficult business to get into and most sink without a trace, a few do make it big- I remember when Kahn first started, I was certain it was a passing fad selling bling, look at where they are now, so take any advice given with a pinch of salt and be happy with your own decisions...
Although its an incredibly difficult business to get into and most sink without a trace, a few do make it big- I remember when Kahn first started, I was certain it was a passing fad selling bling, look at where they are now, so take any advice given with a pinch of salt and be happy with your own decisions...
One final thing:
Although PU can give an excellent panel fit and holds its shape extremely well, its an expensive product to get to that final stage. Take a look at any modern bumper, they are pretty much perfect, fit the car with no adjusting and keep their shape when stored in a box for a long period. Car manufacturers have spent years perfecting these products, altering the mould designs continuously through years of practice and feedback from their factories and the aftermarket (crash repair) bodyshops to get to the precision fit they have now. Its not going to be easy to get there with your first product.
Although PU can give an excellent panel fit and holds its shape extremely well, its an expensive product to get to that final stage. Take a look at any modern bumper, they are pretty much perfect, fit the car with no adjusting and keep their shape when stored in a box for a long period. Car manufacturers have spent years perfecting these products, altering the mould designs continuously through years of practice and feedback from their factories and the aftermarket (crash repair) bodyshops to get to the precision fit they have now. Its not going to be easy to get there with your first product.
Apparently PU is also difficult to paint. I only know this from reading about my old 924 Carrera GT, which had PU wings and apparently that was one of the issues Porsche ran into because standard paint couldn't deal with the parts flexing. That was 1981 though and maybe this is not such an issue now because lots of cars have PU panels.
TallPaul said:
What is the ultimate goal, cosmetics or weight saving? If the products are going to be sold more on their appearance then I would suggest quality PU will give the better durability and damage resistance. Aftermarket repairs aren't really going to be your concern are they? If you are making (for example) bumpers, skirts etc then surely if they are involved in a crash, it'll be just as easy to replace the panel rather than try and repair it.
Carbonfibre will obviously be much lighter and can also be extremely strong but its repairs are beyond most "normal" bodyshops. I assume you are talking about pure c/f layup not a c/f & f/g mix.
Personally, I would discount fibreglass as its relatively heavy, and does imply a cheapness to the build quality.
well cosmetics but I would like it to e light weight too. The repairs wont be my concern but I want to give customers a product that is easy to manage. Well, if people can afford the CF, then they wont mind taking to a specialist. Well, most companies I've spoken to that do the cars I want to do, use just CF, whilst one uses CFRP (reinforced plastic) and one uses PU. Carbonfibre will obviously be much lighter and can also be extremely strong but its repairs are beyond most "normal" bodyshops. I assume you are talking about pure c/f layup not a c/f & f/g mix.
Personally, I would discount fibreglass as its relatively heavy, and does imply a cheapness to the build quality.
I've already dismissed FG.
FG (Fibre glass)
CB (carbon fibre)
CBRP (carbon fibre reinforced plastic)
TallPaul said:
How much research into the market have you done- I would suggest looking at existing suppliers for the type of product you are intending to make and see what materials they are using. I would guess they are all using very similar products for their chosen applications. How are you going to improve on this and what is going to make your product stand out from more established manufacturers?
Although its an incredibly difficult business to get into and most sink without a trace, a few do make it big- I remember when Kahn first started, I was certain it was a passing fad selling bling, look at where they are now, so take any advice given with a pinch of salt and be happy with your own decisions...
I've been researching it for a 3-6 months. Yes, most are using CF apart from Kahn who is using PU. I've been looking at Kahn closely and yes, he has done extremely well. Although, a fair few of cars are not to my taste, he does amazing alloys. Thank you. Although its an incredibly difficult business to get into and most sink without a trace, a few do make it big- I remember when Kahn first started, I was certain it was a passing fad selling bling, look at where they are now, so take any advice given with a pinch of salt and be happy with your own decisions...
TallPaul said:
One final thing:
Although PU can give an excellent panel fit and holds its shape extremely well, its an expensive product to get to that final stage. .
Getting to the final stage and making the mould for both CF and PU is expensive. Although PU can give an excellent panel fit and holds its shape extremely well, its an expensive product to get to that final stage. .
TallPaul said:
Take a look at any modern bumper, they are pretty much perfect, fit the car with no adjusting and keep their shape when stored in a box for a long period. Car manufacturers have spent years perfecting these products, altering the mould designs continuously through years of practice and feedback from their factories and the aftermarket (crash repair) bodyshops to get to the precision fit they have now. Its not going to be easy to get there with your first product.
I believe a way you can get a perfect fit for the car is by using reverse engineering. Bobby Shaftoe said:
To be brutally honest it won't matter a jot what your body kits are made of, primary importance are design and marketing.
Fibreglass is a generic term and means bugger all, fibreglass can be made as flexible or rigid as you like, ditto the finish can be as good or bad as you want depending on how much you want to spend. For instance there is a fibreglass cloth that looks a hell of a lot like carbon fibre, your average customer wouldn't be able to tell by looking at it. There are also polyester based cloths that you could wail on with a sledgehammer and would bounce back into shape.
I suspect you are looking at this arsee about tit. You need to establish your selling pricepoint and work backwards to see what material & manufacturing process will give you and your retailers an acceptable margin.
Do you intend to set up manufacture yourself or sub it out? If the former i'd avoid PU as it is nasty s
t, and there are plenty of companies who specialise in low volume/prototype PU injection moulding, i suspect however the costs are much much higher than ANY open mould fibre reinforced polymer system, including carbon fibre. FYI Carbon fibre is approx 10-15x the cost of a basic chopped strand fibreglass with billy basic polyester resin.
Yep, marketing is KEY but the material does matter enough for me to care. Fibreglass is a generic term and means bugger all, fibreglass can be made as flexible or rigid as you like, ditto the finish can be as good or bad as you want depending on how much you want to spend. For instance there is a fibreglass cloth that looks a hell of a lot like carbon fibre, your average customer wouldn't be able to tell by looking at it. There are also polyester based cloths that you could wail on with a sledgehammer and would bounce back into shape.
I suspect you are looking at this arsee about tit. You need to establish your selling pricepoint and work backwards to see what material & manufacturing process will give you and your retailers an acceptable margin.
Do you intend to set up manufacture yourself or sub it out? If the former i'd avoid PU as it is nasty s
t, and there are plenty of companies who specialise in low volume/prototype PU injection moulding, i suspect however the costs are much much higher than ANY open mould fibre reinforced polymer system, including carbon fibre. FYI Carbon fibre is approx 10-15x the cost of a basic chopped strand fibreglass with billy basic polyester resin. Edited by Bobby Shaftoe on Thursday 2nd January 18:44
Why would you say PU is nasty s
t? I know CF is a lot more expensive. I'm considering CFRP/CF and PU. Gassing Station | Bodywork & Detailing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff