New paint bubbling from heat.
Discussion
I disagree. All Caterhams have no heat shields on the exhaust primaries as they exit the car. The only place where heat shields can be attached are around the can to help protect people exiting and entering the car, not for the paint work, they only sit on the top aspect, not between the paint.
Some wrap the exhaust primaries to remove heat from the engine bay to get a cooler bay/ engine temps. The wrap normally stops as it exits the side skin. Some say this pushes the heater further down the can. A.k.a. out of under the bonnet and nearer the outer skin.
The exhaust gap to aluminium side skin is standard, not uber close to it. The engines a badically standard 1.8 in a mild tune, not really working for it's living.
No mention of this issue that I can find on the Lotus Seven Clubs website. This takes me to believe that it's not a typical issue.
The paint from it's original spray in 1999 up until the respray ~8 months ago was fine. Seemed harder, didn't really chip. The car was used as a daily, in traffic, long drives. It's been on track. Now the paint seems to chip easily. The paints bubbled under the typical heat of a Caterham, nothing unheard of.
This seems a one off, paint issues now when not before. Meant to be the same type of paint, should be similar in its properties.
A suggestion of a paint shield seems to be an easy way out to solve an issue which they seemingly don't want to find the source of! Which there must be one, an underlying difference from before.
Probably be the only Caterham with a heat shield if it had one.
So I don't think I'm being unreasonable trying to find the background to why it's occurred this time over every other Caterham. The heats caused it I agree, but the heat hasn't seemed to have grown in it's intensity, so the paint seems to have reacted when typically it wouldn't have, and seemily typically doesn't.
If it was a documented issue which I was being fussy about, fair game, but being a one off, I don't see why I should accept it.
Each to their own opinion, but that's mine. I like to know the reasons for an issue, not a cheap easy fix to hide an underlying fault.
Some wrap the exhaust primaries to remove heat from the engine bay to get a cooler bay/ engine temps. The wrap normally stops as it exits the side skin. Some say this pushes the heater further down the can. A.k.a. out of under the bonnet and nearer the outer skin.
The exhaust gap to aluminium side skin is standard, not uber close to it. The engines a badically standard 1.8 in a mild tune, not really working for it's living.
No mention of this issue that I can find on the Lotus Seven Clubs website. This takes me to believe that it's not a typical issue.
The paint from it's original spray in 1999 up until the respray ~8 months ago was fine. Seemed harder, didn't really chip. The car was used as a daily, in traffic, long drives. It's been on track. Now the paint seems to chip easily. The paints bubbled under the typical heat of a Caterham, nothing unheard of.
This seems a one off, paint issues now when not before. Meant to be the same type of paint, should be similar in its properties.
A suggestion of a paint shield seems to be an easy way out to solve an issue which they seemingly don't want to find the source of! Which there must be one, an underlying difference from before.
Probably be the only Caterham with a heat shield if it had one.
So I don't think I'm being unreasonable trying to find the background to why it's occurred this time over every other Caterham. The heats caused it I agree, but the heat hasn't seemed to have grown in it's intensity, so the paint seems to have reacted when typically it wouldn't have, and seemily typically doesn't.
If it was a documented issue which I was being fussy about, fair game, but being a one off, I don't see why I should accept it.
Each to their own opinion, but that's mine. I like to know the reasons for an issue, not a cheap easy fix to hide an underlying fault.
I get what you're saying - and it may be down to the paint.
The 'easy chipping' might lead the painter to use more/less or a different additive in the paint (or even a different paint) so that it's less prone to chipping for example.
But that won't necessarily prevent another respray from bubbling.
There a few places a painter can go to research - in fact this forum probably has as many painters with as many years of experience as any other I know (your painter might even be watching this thread hoping for an answer - who knows
) - and yet nobody has managed to give an logical explanation.
The problem obviously isn't a common one - so when you've asked the painter to 'research and come back with an answer' I do wonder how easily he's going to find an answer.
The 'easy chipping' might lead the painter to use more/less or a different additive in the paint (or even a different paint) so that it's less prone to chipping for example.
But that won't necessarily prevent another respray from bubbling.
There a few places a painter can go to research - in fact this forum probably has as many painters with as many years of experience as any other I know (your painter might even be watching this thread hoping for an answer - who knows
) - and yet nobody has managed to give an logical explanation.The problem obviously isn't a common one - so when you've asked the painter to 'research and come back with an answer' I do wonder how easily he's going to find an answer.
Paint isn't an area I know. But I know when an answer is more of a work around, rather than solving the issue at source.
I'm just hoping for the best and that I don't find myself having to respray any time soon.
I'm thankful for the responses. I'm not trying to come across 'chucking my toys out of the pram' and not taking professional advice, when maybe I should.
Different situation I guess, but if I put a blow torch on a copper pipe covered in paint it tends to form many smaller bubbles, or just softens.
If I put it near skirting, sometimes glossed skirting can cause a big bubble. Generally I'd have thought if it wasn't keyed in properly. Should it be able to lift away in a big patch/ bubble as such? I never popped one to see if it was top coat or the lot lifting. Surely it should all be keyed to each layer, effectively becoming one?
The lads are nice chaps, I just hope it goes well as I don't have time, neither do I want to have to sort it out again.
Hopefully I'll know next week.
Someone heat up a painted panel for me as an experiment...big bubbles? What lifts?
I'm just hoping for the best and that I don't find myself having to respray any time soon.
I'm thankful for the responses. I'm not trying to come across 'chucking my toys out of the pram' and not taking professional advice, when maybe I should.
Different situation I guess, but if I put a blow torch on a copper pipe covered in paint it tends to form many smaller bubbles, or just softens.
If I put it near skirting, sometimes glossed skirting can cause a big bubble. Generally I'd have thought if it wasn't keyed in properly. Should it be able to lift away in a big patch/ bubble as such? I never popped one to see if it was top coat or the lot lifting. Surely it should all be keyed to each layer, effectively becoming one?
The lads are nice chaps, I just hope it goes well as I don't have time, neither do I want to have to sort it out again.
Hopefully I'll know next week.
Someone heat up a painted panel for me as an experiment...big bubbles? What lifts?
Gingerbread Man said:
Someone heat up a painted panel for me as an experiment...big bubbles? What lifts?
If only it were as simple as that ......until we know exactly:
how they keyed & prepped each stage
what products they used at each stage
whether or not they included any additives to any coatings
what temp the panel was at when coatings were applied
the thickness of each coating
if they air dried or baked any stages
if they baked at what temp and for how long
... replicating their job is pretty difficult.
But once we've got all that sorted to what temperature should the panel be heated?
civicduty said:
It's now three days later so any word?
Rung the rep who made a special trip out to see it at late notice. The garage owner (who sprayed it) wasn't in when he turned up, so he's only seen the paint bubbling top layer. He thinks it's down to the primer, but he's going back Monday to hopefully take a few layers off and investigate further.civicduty said:
Well at least someone is interested in solving the issue then! How are you looking for it being shipped at the end of the month? Do the people who did the work have any consideration for this?
In a container on the 27th. I made this point quite strongly to the paint company who sent someone out for the next day. The sprayer I'm not quite sure on their turn around times.Car manufacturers use different paints and lacquers to those used in body shops. They are then baked at a far higher temperature than we can in our spray ovens and when we do bake them it will still take months to fully cure if ever it does.
The aftermarket products will blister with that level of heat as they are not designed for it.
The aftermarket products will blister with that level of heat as they are not designed for it.
potato muncher said:
Car manufacturers use different paints and lacquers to those used in body shops. They are then baked at a far higher temperature than we can in our spray ovens and when we do bake them it will still take months to fully cure if ever it does.
The aftermarket products will blister with that level of heat as they are not designed for it.
No other resprayed Caterham does. No reported stories anywhere I can find. Never seen. Never heard from people who race them. No heat guards on any seven. The aftermarket products will blister with that level of heat as they are not designed for it.
Basically.
Paint rep got back to me today. He said something along the lines of;
"The primer on the panel is sound, it appears that there maybe solvent trapped between the topcoat and primer causing it to bubble, but to be 100%, I can't determine the exact problem. Should be fine if they repaint it. Shouldn't need a heat shield, but this could be an answer if it happens again."
So they're repainting it. Either way, there won't be time to sort out any issues. They're not interested in dismantling it for spraying the one side, so I'm having to source the skills of a great Caterham chap on here to have it dismantled and rebuilt. I think only the rear wing, front wing and front assembly need to come off.
"The primer on the panel is sound, it appears that there maybe solvent trapped between the topcoat and primer causing it to bubble, but to be 100%, I can't determine the exact problem. Should be fine if they repaint it. Shouldn't need a heat shield, but this could be an answer if it happens again."
So they're repainting it. Either way, there won't be time to sort out any issues. They're not interested in dismantling it for spraying the one side, so I'm having to source the skills of a great Caterham chap on here to have it dismantled and rebuilt. I think only the rear wing, front wing and front assembly need to come off.
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