Does lacquer make a difference in colour?
Discussion
Long story short. My MR2 is red. It was resprayed prior to me buying it and now is laquered. This shoukd stop it going pink and a better shine?
I recently got some new body parts and got the bumpers, skirts, wings, boot, spoiler, mirrors and side strips painted.
I was originally quoted 450 and was getting some holes welded up on the wings and boot aswell and was happy with this.
The painter went over his time scale and when I asked if it was ready for collection he offered to knock money off. He ended up being late again and knocked it down to 200 quid which I was very surprised as that seemed very cheap and its not like I was complaining or pestering him. In the 6 or 7 weeks he had the stuff I only asked twice was it ready. And both times were after the deadline he had given.
Now the parts still need cutting and polishing which he had said to take it back once I'd put them on the car as would be easier for him which was understandable but I'm now having trouble getting him to do it.
his time management is poor And always seems busy but I also get the feeling I'm being fobbed off as he did a cheap job. I didn't ask for one though.
So I went to have a go at cutting myself yesterday as I'm a bit of a detailer and had a few good results. So I start polishing and the pads redder than a murder thing thats been bashed to death with a frozen sausage.
The colour match doesnt seem to be very good and I've hoped it was down to the paint being rough and not reflecting the light properly. The cars paint looks almost orangey red and the new stuff is the other end of the spectrum towards a darker red rather than a deeper red.
So is it worth kicking up a fuss to get them laquered now? I does mean I'd have to strip the car down again as I didn't want paint lines etc. Will it make the paint a ligher colour?
I did tell him the car was laquered and the boot, wings and front bumper were from the car originally so he had them for paint matching etc.
The few bits I've had done were always the bits I wasn't hapy with the car and was looking forward to it looking good.
I recently got some new body parts and got the bumpers, skirts, wings, boot, spoiler, mirrors and side strips painted.
I was originally quoted 450 and was getting some holes welded up on the wings and boot aswell and was happy with this.
The painter went over his time scale and when I asked if it was ready for collection he offered to knock money off. He ended up being late again and knocked it down to 200 quid which I was very surprised as that seemed very cheap and its not like I was complaining or pestering him. In the 6 or 7 weeks he had the stuff I only asked twice was it ready. And both times were after the deadline he had given.
Now the parts still need cutting and polishing which he had said to take it back once I'd put them on the car as would be easier for him which was understandable but I'm now having trouble getting him to do it.
his time management is poor And always seems busy but I also get the feeling I'm being fobbed off as he did a cheap job. I didn't ask for one though.
So I went to have a go at cutting myself yesterday as I'm a bit of a detailer and had a few good results. So I start polishing and the pads redder than a murder thing thats been bashed to death with a frozen sausage.
The colour match doesnt seem to be very good and I've hoped it was down to the paint being rough and not reflecting the light properly. The cars paint looks almost orangey red and the new stuff is the other end of the spectrum towards a darker red rather than a deeper red.
So is it worth kicking up a fuss to get them laquered now? I does mean I'd have to strip the car down again as I didn't want paint lines etc. Will it make the paint a ligher colour?
I did tell him the car was laquered and the boot, wings and front bumper were from the car originally so he had them for paint matching etc.
The few bits I've had done were always the bits I wasn't hapy with the car and was looking forward to it looking good.
Sounds like he has done it in a 2k colour (ie no lacquer on top) and it sounds like you've got a bad colour match.
A coat of lacquer won't change the colour but it will stop it from fading.
In fairness it sounds like the guy was trying to match to a respray colour (that may not have been a perfect match to the original colour) so unless he had some sort of spectrometer (a very expensive bit of kit used to 'read' the colour and suggest the closet possible available colour mix that is commercially available) he was on a hiding to nothing.
Matching 'an anonymous colour' without this bit of kit simply can't be done - as opposed to matching an original modern colour that's always been lacquered which can be done using the vehicles colour code.
Yes you could have a word - but he's given you a huge discount which I suspect is because despite his best efforts in getting the best 'by hand/eye' match he could (which would take time ...... ) he simply couldn't get it right. (What do you think the welding jobs were worth?)
He won't get it better because in short you're looking for a one off custom colour - and anywhere that could offer a service to give a perfect match would probably charge double.
A coat of lacquer won't change the colour but it will stop it from fading.
In fairness it sounds like the guy was trying to match to a respray colour (that may not have been a perfect match to the original colour) so unless he had some sort of spectrometer (a very expensive bit of kit used to 'read' the colour and suggest the closet possible available colour mix that is commercially available) he was on a hiding to nothing.
Matching 'an anonymous colour' without this bit of kit simply can't be done - as opposed to matching an original modern colour that's always been lacquered which can be done using the vehicles colour code.
Yes you could have a word - but he's given you a huge discount which I suspect is because despite his best efforts in getting the best 'by hand/eye' match he could (which would take time ...... ) he simply couldn't get it right. (What do you think the welding jobs were worth?)
He won't get it better because in short you're looking for a one off custom colour - and anywhere that could offer a service to give a perfect match would probably charge double.
Its not a custom colour though. Its simply toyota super red with a lacquer as far as I can tell. The car was mostly resprayed but odd bits like the rear bumper and wing mirrors hadn't been resprayed as the red would come off those when cutting with a rotary or da but the colour match was pretty good. Could only tell in an orange street light and even then it was me being picky. Most couldn't spot it even when pointed out.
the paint was also matched using one of those tools by a local paint shop who I've used for a long time. Nice guy and willing to go out of his way to help custom mix or simply give advice. Its him who pointed my mate in the direction of this painter who got his jetski done there. He done a pretty good job on that.
yes he did it cheap but I didnt ask for that. The 450 I was originally quoted I would have been happy to pay and never said anything otherwise to him. Its the hassle of stripping the car down and back together and it being worse than before which is a bummer.
the paint was also matched using one of those tools by a local paint shop who I've used for a long time. Nice guy and willing to go out of his way to help custom mix or simply give advice. Its him who pointed my mate in the direction of this painter who got his jetski done there. He done a pretty good job on that.
yes he did it cheap but I didnt ask for that. The 450 I was originally quoted I would have been happy to pay and never said anything otherwise to him. Its the hassle of stripping the car down and back together and it being worse than before which is a bummer.
Its not a custom colour though. Its simply toyota super red with a lacquer as far as I can tell. The car was mostly resprayed but odd bits like the rear bumper and wing mirrors hadn't been resprayed as the red would come off those when cutting with a rotary or da but the colour match was pretty good. Could only tell in an orange street light and even then it was me being picky. Most couldn't spot it even when pointed out.
the paint was also matched using one of those tools by a local paint shop who I've used for a long time. Nice guy and willing to go out of his way to help custom mix or simply give advice. Its him who pointed my mate in the direction of this painter who got his jetski done there. He done a pretty good job on that.
yes he did it cheap but I didnt ask for that. The 450 I was originally quoted I would have been happy to pay and never said anything otherwise to him. Its the hassle of stripping the car down and back together and it being worse than before which is a bummer.
the paint was also matched using one of those tools by a local paint shop who I've used for a long time. Nice guy and willing to go out of his way to help custom mix or simply give advice. Its him who pointed my mate in the direction of this painter who got his jetski done there. He done a pretty good job on that.
yes he did it cheap but I didnt ask for that. The 450 I was originally quoted I would have been happy to pay and never said anything otherwise to him. Its the hassle of stripping the car down and back together and it being worse than before which is a bummer.
It may not be 'a custom' colour but he maybe trying to match a colour that's not original - not available commercially
On the previous respray the colour may have mixed using the colour code - but during the mixing a touch too much blue, or a drop or two too much yellow may have been added thus any painter is now trying to match a colour that is no longer 'orignal' - it's a 'one off'.
You also seem to be suggesting that your car was originally painted in 2k (a paint that isn't usually lacquered) because you mention it being lacquered when it was resprayed.
If it was originally 2k the paint it would have faded - then it's had a respray - probably not 2k as it was then lacquered - in a colour that was close to the faded red, but a colour that was probably made up that won't have a code.
If you are saying that a paint shop put a spectrometer on it but it was painted somewhere else who mixed the paint???
Did the paint shop supply the painter with the badly matched paint?
or
Was the painter given a code by the paint shop?
On the previous respray the colour may have mixed using the colour code - but during the mixing a touch too much blue, or a drop or two too much yellow may have been added thus any painter is now trying to match a colour that is no longer 'orignal' - it's a 'one off'.
You also seem to be suggesting that your car was originally painted in 2k (a paint that isn't usually lacquered) because you mention it being lacquered when it was resprayed.
If it was originally 2k the paint it would have faded - then it's had a respray - probably not 2k as it was then lacquered - in a colour that was close to the faded red, but a colour that was probably made up that won't have a code.
If you are saying that a paint shop put a spectrometer on it but it was painted somewhere else who mixed the paint???
Did the paint shop supply the painter with the badly matched paint?
or
Was the painter given a code by the paint shop?
The paint shop used the tool and supplied the mixed paint I would have imagined. The parts he was supplied had been painted previously .
But since the cars new paint matched its old paint (when it was cut and polished, it would go pink on the old paint and need cutting every now and then) then its not a different colour and he was supplied the laint code anyway. Theres about 5 different shades of toyota super red anyway according to the painter. Hence why he wanted it looking at.
But the answer what I was looking for was to the question of does lacquer change the appearance is answered. No it doesn't.
But since the cars new paint matched its old paint (when it was cut and polished, it would go pink on the old paint and need cutting every now and then) then its not a different colour and he was supplied the laint code anyway. Theres about 5 different shades of toyota super red anyway according to the painter. Hence why he wanted it looking at.
But the answer what I was looking for was to the question of does lacquer change the appearance is answered. No it doesn't.
Red paint is the worst to match. And paint fades, especially it seems red (doesn't matter if it's lacquered or not).
A paint matched very accurately to the colour of your paint code would probably not match your car. And one mixed to match the car probably wouldn't in 5 years.
I await correction from those that know better, but this is my experience with Alfa Romeos from circa 2000.
A paint matched very accurately to the colour of your paint code would probably not match your car. And one mixed to match the car probably wouldn't in 5 years.
I await correction from those that know better, but this is my experience with Alfa Romeos from circa 2000.
Just to add to this some Japanese Reds require a tinted clear, which would alter the colour, I seem to remember Honda Milano red requiring this in some of the paint manufacturers formulas.
That said some clears do alter the paint tone, but generally on metallic's, less so on solids, never the less it can still happen.
That said some clears do alter the paint tone, but generally on metallic's, less so on solids, never the less it can still happen.
Not possible in waterbased as the base coats aren't mixable with the clearcoat.
Dealt with as a 3 coat system, Mazda Velocity Red is an example, the base coat is solid, the transparent coating sprayed over that contains the metalic/pearlescent/xirillic items (yes, it has all three) and then clearcoat over the top.
In the days of solvent based I did a Lotus yellow - the name of which escapes me - the base was solid yellow & the metallic element was mixed into the clearcoat. Much simpler!
Dealt with as a 3 coat system, Mazda Velocity Red is an example, the base coat is solid, the transparent coating sprayed over that contains the metalic/pearlescent/xirillic items (yes, it has all three) and then clearcoat over the top.
In the days of solvent based I did a Lotus yellow - the name of which escapes me - the base was solid yellow & the metallic element was mixed into the clearcoat. Much simpler!
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