Classy aftermarket aerodynamic/tunning

Classy aftermarket aerodynamic/tunning

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Discussion

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
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I've discussed this before but I'm still intrigued how people on here, who are clearly working or low middle class, yet they think that the likes of Brabus is chavvy. Someone even stated any work done (alternative styling, engine enhancements), even by the manufactururer (including the ferrari FXX) is chavvy! I thought it was quite strong calling that chavvy, when he owned a red Mazda (I think it was a Mazda) with black alloys. Is it because they're chavs themselves and they're self-hating, because I really don't understand why people here think all aftermarket work is chavvy. I understand calling Onyx, Kahn's Old stuff chavvy, but I don't think overfinch and in particular brabus, and especially the ferrari fxx are chavvy. I'm sorry, it's not down to taste, it's definition we are taking about and the FXX is not chavvy. So esteemed members of PH, what is and what isn't chavvy - or rather, what is or isn't tastefull/classy?

Edited by elegance on Thursday 5th March 22:08


Edited by elegance on Friday 6th March 04:49

morebeanz

3,283 posts

235 months

Friday 6th March 2015
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So people who aren't posh can't understand tasteful and classy, but people with money can?

Can open, worms everywhere... biggrin

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
morebeanz said:
So people who aren't posh can't understand tasteful and classy, but people with money can?

Can open, worms everywhere... biggrin
A bit of a strawman argument, do you not think? Did I even insinuate that poorer people don't have taste (although David Hume would disagree with us both)?? No I did not - my point is that people who could potentially be considered chavs, are quick to call the likes of brabus chavvy.

So, can you help in telling me what is and what isn't classy when it comes to the aftermarket?

R8VXF

6,788 posts

114 months

Friday 6th March 2015
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Who cares what the proles think? wink

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
R8VXF said:
Who cares what the proles think? wink
Well, I'm interested in everyones opinion smile

Edited by elegance on Friday 6th March 11:42

Robb F

4,562 posts

170 months

Friday 6th March 2015
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elegance said:
I've discussed this before but I'm still intrigued how people on here, who are clearly working or low middle class, yet they think that the likes of Brabus is chavvy. Someone even stated any work done (alternative styling, engine enhancements), even by the manufactururer (including the ferrari FXX) is chavvy! I thought it was quite strong calling that chavvy, when he owned a red Mazda (I think it was a Mazda) with black alloys. Is it because they're chavs themselves and they're self-hating, because I really don't understand why people here think all aftermarket work is chavvy. I understand calling Onyx, Kahn's Old stuff chavvy, but I don't think overfinch and in particular brabus, and especially the ferrari fxx are chavvy. I'm sorry, it's not down to taste, it's definition we are taking about and the FXX is not chavvy. So esteemed members of PH, what is and what isn't chavvy - or rather, what is or isn't tastefull/classy?
Everything here is considered chavvy unless it's a brand that consist of two peoples surnames.

You're wrong though, it is a matter of taste. Someone owning something you consider chavvy doesn't stop them from thinking something you don't think is chavvy is.

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Friday 6th March 2015
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Robb F said:
Everything here is considered chavvy unless it's a brand that consist of two peoples surnames.

You're wrong though, it is a matter of taste. Someone owning something you consider chavvy doesn't stop them from thinking something you don't think is chavvy is.
So, it's a matter of taste, whether or not the ferrari FXX is chavvy?

Also, which brand are you talking about or are you just exaggerating?

Robb F

4,562 posts

170 months

Friday 6th March 2015
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elegance said:
So, it's a matter of taste, whether or not the ferrari FXX is chavvy?
It is undoubtedly a matter of opinion whether someone thinks a FXX is chavvy, yes.

elegance said:
Also, which brand are you talking about or are you just exaggerating?
Christ, who took the jam out of your donut?

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Friday 6th March 2015
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Robb F said:
Christ, who took the jam out of your donut?
Interesting - but which definition of chavvy would it have to adhere to?

I don't understand, jam out of my doughnut?

Robb F

4,562 posts

170 months

Friday 6th March 2015
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elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Friday 6th March 2015
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Robb F said:
Exactly, I'm not familiar with that expression. What do you mean?

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Saturday 7th March 2015
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So, anymore enlightening input?

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Sunday 8th March 2015
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I've just had an epiphany, the PH users must think the Ferrari 458 speciale is chavvy too!

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 8th March 2015
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elegance said:
I've just had an epiphany, the PH users must think the Ferrari 458 speciale is chavvy too!
If you've stripped it, caged it, and are throwing it around the Nordschleife then no, it's not Chavvy. You bought a track special and are driving it on the track. If you are driving it through a provincial town centre at 10mph to make sure that everyone can see you then yes, it is chavvy.

To me in this context, chavviness is about wanting to make a very ostentatious public statement of wealth. Here's a not-chavvy example.



It's a Ferrari F12 rebodied by Touring. Hardly any badges on it at all, no random slashes everywhere, and a not crazy colour. Drive it sensibly and it would likely not attract too much attention, except from people who know and care about cars. Here's a Chavvy example:



It's a Ferrari F12 not rebodied by anybody. Notice the dozens of Ferrari badges, designed to tell people who aren't car fans that you have enough money to buy a Ferrari. It's red, angry, and very pointy, and it would be hard to avoid attention.

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Sunday 8th March 2015
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davepoth said:
If you've stripped it, caged it, and are throwing it around the Nordschleife then no, it's not Chavvy. You bought a track special and are driving it on the track. If you are driving it through a provincial town centre at 10mph to make sure that everyone can see you then yes, it is chavvy.

To me in this context, chavviness is about wanting to make a very ostentatious public statement of wealth. Here's a not-chavvy example.



It's a Ferrari F12 rebodied by Touring. Hardly any badges on it at all, no random slashes everywhere, and a not crazy colour. Drive it sensibly and it would likely not attract too much attention, except from people who know and care about cars. Here's a Chavvy example:



It's a Ferrari F12 not rebodied by anybody. Notice the dozens of Ferrari badges, designed to tell people who aren't car fans that you have enough money to buy a Ferrari. It's red, angry, and very pointy, and it would be hard to avoid attention.
Thank you for your very well written, and well thought-out response. I would agree with you on most parts, that being ostentacious is uncouth and quite chavvy. However, i don't think a Brabus is ostentatious, and they also improve the aesthetics as well as performance of the car - do you agree?

However, I don't think that the standard ferrari f12 is ostentacious.


Edited by elegance on Sunday 8th March 16:19


Edited by elegance on Tuesday 10th March 11:28

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 8th March 2015
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elegance said:
Thank you for your very well written, and well thought-out response. I would agree with you on most parts, that being ostentacious is uncouth and quite chavvy. However, i don't think a Brabus is ostentacious, and they also improve the aesthetics as well as performance of the car - do you agree?

However, I don't think that the standard ferrari f12 is ostentacious.


Edited by elegance on Sunday 8th March 16:19
It's a matter of taste, clearly. If I could get the Brabus tuning without the trimming I would go for it, but I find the bodywork modifications a bit too excessive. As far as I'm concerned, and example of tuning done right is what Alpina do with BMWs.

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Monday 9th March 2015
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davepoth said:
It's a matter of taste, clearly. If I could get the Brabus tuning without the trimming I would go for it, but I find the bodywork modifications a bit too excessive. As far as I'm concerned, and example of tuning done right is what Alpina do with BMWs.
Ok, that's fair enough but I personally think that their modifications can be subtle and less obvious than the 458 speciale, and especially compared to the likes of Mansory, hamann, ect.


Edited by elegance on Monday 9th March 02:55

belleair302

6,835 posts

206 months

Monday 9th March 2015
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There is a huge difference between bespoke coach builders and tuners. Today a few companies can rebuild, re design and make your car truly bespoke with some elegant yet costly re body options. And then as stated there are companies who will just make the car look hideous for a very specific market...usually in the middle east and also China. Think of Singer in the US and the amazing work they do or Mechatronic in Germany, vs Hamann and Kahn in the UK. My current favourite is Ares Atelier and what they can do, pure art and elegance.

elegance

Original Poster:

97 posts

122 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
belleair302 said:
There is a huge difference between bespoke coach builders and tuners. Today a few companies can rebuild, re design and make your car truly bespoke with some elegant yet costly re body options. And then as stated there are companies who will just make the car look hideous for a very specific market...usually in the middle east and also China. Think of Singer in the US and the amazing work they do or Mechatronic in Germany, vs Hamann and Kahn in the UK. My current favourite is Ares Atelier and what they can do, pure art and elegance.
Yes, indeed there is a difference between the likes of singer, and Hamann. in all honesty, my post is directed to tuners like Brabus.... However, Ares is akin to the likes of hamann, and in my opinion, their aesthetic changes are quite OTT.

So, I'm interested to know why you think they're elegant, but not other tuning companies - well they're obviously a lot more subtle than the likes of Hamann.

Edited by elegance on Monday 9th March 17:41

belleair302

6,835 posts

206 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
To me there is a huge difference in tuning, i.e. what Brabus do, what Overfinch and what Callaway or Lingenfelter do. For some the exterior modifications are as important as what goes on under the bonnet or chassis. These people like the 'shout' of the exterior as a way to draw attention to either themselves or their car, suv, truck or whatever.

Other companies are more about keeping the changes subtle and for the benefit of the driver or passenger.....ie sleep cars or fast road cars. It is ultimately horses for courses but few people buy some of these wildly modified cars with mad exterior modifications, whereas many more buy 'tuner' cars such as those supplied by Alpina, Ruf etc. To me modifications are all about a sense of well spent money, creating a unique vehicle, which does not shout, but makes people want a closer look and then appreciate a sense of style and a connection, not revulsion and envy or plain horror.

Go way back to the 1914-1940 period of coach building to fully appreciate the difference between bespoke and factory built.

As one says in life....form is temporary class is permanent.