Discussion
Siscar said:
custardtart said:
We find the food here (inner Sydney)from Woolies and Coles to be of a far higher standard than the equivalent in the UK. I like that independent butchers and fishmongers still exist. The Harris Farm in Kings X is excellent, the best fish and meat I've found.
Size wise, you're right they don't compare to a Tesco Extra.
Really? Woolies and Coles in Inner Sydney... The selection and quality? I've been in that lower floor of Woolworths by the Town Hall many times, the Coles at Broadway and Eastgate shopping centres and if you think those are a high standard you need to get out more. It's people in Sydney who shop in these places who are amazed by what they can get in a Sainsburys. Take them to Waitrose and you might not get them out again. Tesco Extra? Nah, horrible places, definitely to avoid, enormous but with few other qualities, no surprise that they are suffering in the market these days. Size wise, you're right they don't compare to a Tesco Extra.
As for independents, lots of them around, half a mile from us is the farm shop we get all of our meat from, most of it from the farms around us. There's less than there were, supermarkets have put the poor ones out of business but the successful ones now compete on quality and do it very well.
I'm sorry but, lots of things to sell Australia on, it's a great place, but quality of the supermarkets really isn't a plus point.
I do sound like I should work for the tourist board but I blo*dy love it here - except Taxis 
thehawk said:
Mostly agree with the above, supermarkets are dire in Australia, luckily in Melbourne there are great markets and a gourmet food places.
Restaurant food quality in Australia is just way ahead of the UK. Even the best places in the UK I have been to just don't seem to have the freshness in the ingredients, design wise and presentation they can be fantastic but they just lack the flavours - especially if Asian inspired.
I agree with both of these. Restaurant food quality in Australia is just way ahead of the UK. Even the best places in the UK I have been to just don't seem to have the freshness in the ingredients, design wise and presentation they can be fantastic but they just lack the flavours - especially if Asian inspired.
I get most of my fruit and veg at either the local fruit and veg shop (mainly local produce) or the farmers market and the difference in quality is amazing.
Same with meat from the producer rather than the supermarket.
As I implied before, I'm not trying to start a verbal war on this, I love both countries. But having a foot metaphorically in both does bring out some views in Australia that really don't work when you switch between the two, some might work between Australia today and the UK of years ago, but often not currently.
Restaurants is one, this whole thing that food is so much better really just doesn't add up, it can be very good in both countries. Asian? Yes, Australia has the edge there, but probably helped by having a lot of Asians, and in the UK there is a bigger range of quality, if you go to somewhere like a Harvester it's not great, just cheap. In some places you see signs like 2 dine for £5.99, well two people having a two course meal for $10 isn't going to be quality, you have to know that from the start.
People also quote travel as though it's easier to get around Australia, yet getting to and around London and other cities compared to doing the same in Sydney is no comparison, the Underground isn't a great experience but it works very well, and moving between cities isn't about flights and time zones, it's often an hour or two on a train or in a car.
But much of what I'm saying isn't that Australia is bad at stuff, but a lot of the things that are put forwards to say it's better than the UK make no sense. Someone said car servicing, really? Having had that done in both countries I really fail to see much difference. And the food point isn't saying that it's bad in either country just that you can dine very well in both.
A lot of it is about personal opinion, personal choice. I employ people in both, we move people between both depending on where we need their skills and there is no way of knowing whether people who switch from one side of the world to the other will love it or hate it. I have someone in Perth now who desperately wants to come back and someone else in Sydney who is happily going for Permanent Residency, meanwhile someone from Brisbane who loves it here,
So it's personal choice, in the context of this thread I can fully understand people wanting to move from one to the other and some liking it and some not. It's personal and, if you split your time between the two it's easy to understand that both places are great, each has their advantages and it's a matter of what matters to you.
Restaurants is one, this whole thing that food is so much better really just doesn't add up, it can be very good in both countries. Asian? Yes, Australia has the edge there, but probably helped by having a lot of Asians, and in the UK there is a bigger range of quality, if you go to somewhere like a Harvester it's not great, just cheap. In some places you see signs like 2 dine for £5.99, well two people having a two course meal for $10 isn't going to be quality, you have to know that from the start.
People also quote travel as though it's easier to get around Australia, yet getting to and around London and other cities compared to doing the same in Sydney is no comparison, the Underground isn't a great experience but it works very well, and moving between cities isn't about flights and time zones, it's often an hour or two on a train or in a car.
But much of what I'm saying isn't that Australia is bad at stuff, but a lot of the things that are put forwards to say it's better than the UK make no sense. Someone said car servicing, really? Having had that done in both countries I really fail to see much difference. And the food point isn't saying that it's bad in either country just that you can dine very well in both.
A lot of it is about personal opinion, personal choice. I employ people in both, we move people between both depending on where we need their skills and there is no way of knowing whether people who switch from one side of the world to the other will love it or hate it. I have someone in Perth now who desperately wants to come back and someone else in Sydney who is happily going for Permanent Residency, meanwhile someone from Brisbane who loves it here,
So it's personal choice, in the context of this thread I can fully understand people wanting to move from one to the other and some liking it and some not. It's personal and, if you split your time between the two it's easy to understand that both places are great, each has their advantages and it's a matter of what matters to you.
Edited by Siscar on Thursday 13th February 06:55
Siscar said:
As I implied before, I'm not trying to start a verbal war on this, I love both countries. But having a foot metaphorically in both does bring out some views in Australia that really don't work when you switch between the two, some might work between Australia today and the UK of years ago, but often not currently.
Understood and forgive me if I'm wrong but are you stating that for those that don't split our time evenly between the UK and Australia means our views are incorrect? Edited by Siscar on Thursday 13th February 06:55
You'll find many on here moved from the UK in the last 5 years and visit there regularly so I would take absolute faith their judgements are near the mark unless the core base of sociability and structure in the UK has changed substantially in the last 2-5 years...
For me it is about housing.
I suppose if you are doing well enough you may be able to find suitable housing in the UK, or anywhere, but I did not see much when I was there. I was on a navy base, so didn't have to live in any of it.
I did live in a unit in Surfers Paradise once, but the annoyance of a shared underground car park was enough to drive me out. I even lived in a flat in Rushcutters Bay, opposite the cruising yacht club. On street parking was too much hassle, when people were sailing or just at the club on weekends.
As an Ozzie, I am used to a separate house, single story, on a quarter acre block. Anything less is just not on. I want room to keep my cars & other gear, boat etc. under cover, & locked up. Even modern developments in Oz are starting to fall short of this requirement.
At the peak we had our cars, [wife & I], 3 kids cars, the boat, horse float, Ford F150 camper van/tow master, & my Triumph. At least 5 of these were worth keeping under cover.
Two of my kids now own largish homes on modern smaller lots. They have 2 car garages, with space for perhaps one car beside the usual junk. One can drive through one side of the garage to gain access to the back yard, the other had to hire a crane to get a small water tank lifted over the house.
When their kids have cars they will not have enough parking on a good day, it's all too much hassle for me. How people can put up with row housing with street parking in narrow streets I just can't imagine.
I have eaten in more than enough restaurants, been to enough shows & football games, & will take space every time. We have a new satellite city development about 8 kilometers away. I didn't realise there were so many builders on earth. They have built about a thousand homes, [on those smaller modern blocks] in about 6 months. I have a feeling I'll be looking for somewhere quieter, with more air, sometime soon.
I suppose if you are doing well enough you may be able to find suitable housing in the UK, or anywhere, but I did not see much when I was there. I was on a navy base, so didn't have to live in any of it.
I did live in a unit in Surfers Paradise once, but the annoyance of a shared underground car park was enough to drive me out. I even lived in a flat in Rushcutters Bay, opposite the cruising yacht club. On street parking was too much hassle, when people were sailing or just at the club on weekends.
As an Ozzie, I am used to a separate house, single story, on a quarter acre block. Anything less is just not on. I want room to keep my cars & other gear, boat etc. under cover, & locked up. Even modern developments in Oz are starting to fall short of this requirement.
At the peak we had our cars, [wife & I], 3 kids cars, the boat, horse float, Ford F150 camper van/tow master, & my Triumph. At least 5 of these were worth keeping under cover.
Two of my kids now own largish homes on modern smaller lots. They have 2 car garages, with space for perhaps one car beside the usual junk. One can drive through one side of the garage to gain access to the back yard, the other had to hire a crane to get a small water tank lifted over the house.
When their kids have cars they will not have enough parking on a good day, it's all too much hassle for me. How people can put up with row housing with street parking in narrow streets I just can't imagine.
I have eaten in more than enough restaurants, been to enough shows & football games, & will take space every time. We have a new satellite city development about 8 kilometers away. I didn't realise there were so many builders on earth. They have built about a thousand homes, [on those smaller modern blocks] in about 6 months. I have a feeling I'll be looking for somewhere quieter, with more air, sometime soon.
Hasbeen said:
As an Ozzie, I am used to a separate house, single story, on a quarter acre block. Anything less is just not on. I want room to keep my cars & other gear, boat etc. under cover, & locked up. Even modern developments in Oz are starting to fall short of this requirement.
That dream has long gone for most in Australia I think, certainly if you want to live close to the city centres as the majority of people wish to do. Otherwise you are in endless suburbia which is worse than hell. Sydney or Melbourne looking at $1m+ these days.Pommygranite said:
Understood and forgive me if I'm wrong but are you stating that for those that don't split our time evenly between the UK and Australia means our views are incorrect?
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to express it whatever it may be, all are welcome to back up their views however it is appropriate - nothing wrong with that.Pommygranite said:
You'll find many on here moved from the UK in the last 5 years and visit there regularly so I would take absolute faith their judgements are near the mark unless the core base of sociability and structure in the UK has changed substantially in the last 2-5 years...
Hmm, but as a sample to use there is a massive inbuilt bias there, of course they prefer their choice, of course they will justify their choice, no doubt they are right - for them.I could ask a group of people who moved from Australia to the UK and chose to stay here, I'm guessing they wouldn't give the same opinions.
One of the big issues that confuses is that people aren't comparing like with like in a meaningful way. Move, for example, from Luton to Sydney and you will see a massive difference, not necessarily because of the UK to Australia but because Luton is, quite frankly, a dump whilst Sydney is a great city. Is food dreadful in Luton? I wouldn't be at all surprised. Do Wagga Wagga to Bristol and they are different worlds, but then Wagga to Melbourne are as well.
It's all personal and there are so many factors. My Caterham is out on a track - the likes of Silverstone, Donnington, Oulton Park - a fair number of times a year. Could I do that in Australia? Not so easily, does that make the UK better than Australia? Massively if it's important to you, not at all if it's not.
All personal, my point is simply that there are a lot of people who are informed on both and pick Australia and people who are equally well informed who pick the UK, neither one is really better than the other, they are different and the differences will work one way for one person and the other way for another.
thehawk said:
That dream has long gone for most in Australia I think, certainly if you want to live close to the city centres as the majority of people wish to do. Otherwise you are in endless suburbia which is worse than hell. Sydney or Melbourne looking at $1m+ these days.
Hawk can you explain why "MOST" people want to live close to the city centers. I personally know very few people who ever want to go any where near the city center. A couple of my kids tried "clubbing" a few times, wondered what the attraction was, & never went near the city again.I have moved in the past to be near a good surf beach, closer to the race tracks, so I did not have to tow a car so far, & later to where I wanted to moor/race my yacht, but never to be near a restaurant.
When I worked in Sydney center I used to leave a car in the company office car park, & catch the train home to Cronulla.
I can understand your dislike of suburbia. One of my kids lives on the Gold Coast. They know better than to try to get me to go into that traffic light infested hell, but I'm happy to join them at Wivenhoe or one of the other dams for a days waterskying.
Hasbeen said:
Hawk can you explain why "MOST" people want to live close to the city centers. I personally know very few people who ever want to go any where near the city center. A couple of my kids tried "clubbing" a few times, wondered what the attraction was, & never went near the city again.
I have moved in the past to be near a good surf beach, closer to the race tracks, so I did not have to tow a car so far, & later to where I wanted to moor/race my yacht, but never to be near a restaurant.
When I worked in Sydney center I used to leave a car in the company office car park, & catch the train home to Cronulla.
I can understand your dislike of suburbia. One of my kids lives on the Gold Coast. They know better than to try to get me to go into that traffic light infested hell, but I'm happy to join them at Wivenhoe or one of the other dams for a days waterskying.
Australia is reputably one of the most urbanised countries in the world with 89.9% of the population living in an urban environment, only slightly behind Japan at 91.3. Pretty much every country above that is a small place like Singapore and Monaco which are only a city.I have moved in the past to be near a good surf beach, closer to the race tracks, so I did not have to tow a car so far, & later to where I wanted to moor/race my yacht, but never to be near a restaurant.
When I worked in Sydney center I used to leave a car in the company office car park, & catch the train home to Cronulla.
I can understand your dislike of suburbia. One of my kids lives on the Gold Coast. They know better than to try to get me to go into that traffic light infested hell, but I'm happy to join them at Wivenhoe or one of the other dams for a days waterskying.
(Don't ask me how they come up with this stuff, but Aussies do seem to all huddle close together in cities with a hell of a lot of space in between).
Hasbeen said:
Hawk can you explain why "MOST" people want to live close to the city centers. I personally know very few people who ever want to go any where near the city center. A couple of my kids tried "clubbing" a few times, wondered what the attraction was, & never went near the city again.
Australia cities are very "city centre" centric. That's where most of the professional jobs are, that's where the good restaurants, theatres, pubs, clubs and other entertainment are. And most people want that sort of lifestyle or access to it. And they don't want to be commuting hours to get there.The UK is very different, you can still essentially have that lifestyle anywhere due to the excellent public transport system (though people only realise that once they leave the country)
thehawk said:
The UK is very different, you can still essentially have that lifestyle anywhere due to the excellent public transport system (though people only realise that once they leave the country)
Again, I've had a totally different experience.The public transport in Perth is brilliant. Cheap and efficient trains, free buses in the city, ferries across the river. All by the same company. My car is now a weekend toy.
In the UK, it would have taken me 2+ hours to get to work by train (and a 5 mile walk at each end), and by bus I'd have to leave the night before to get to work on time. It was a 30min off-peak drive.
Everything in the UK involved driving, and when going out either taxis or designated drivers. In Perth I can scoot around the Metro area via public transport, friends do the same, and then we get the train home. For me it's about $2 a trip.
Example :-
I'm getting my car serviced tomorrow, so tonight I'll get the train home, collect the car, drive it to the garage. I'll then get the train from the garage into the CBD, have a few drinks with friends till late, and then get another train home. All that will be about $4 on public transport.
Hasbeen said:
For me it is about housing.
I suppose if you are doing well enough you may be able to find suitable housing in the UK, or anywhere, but I did not see much when I was there. I was on a navy base, so didn't have to live in any of it.
I did live in a unit in Surfers Paradise once, but the annoyance of a shared underground car park was enough to drive me out. I even lived in a flat in Rushcutters Bay, opposite the cruising yacht club. On street parking was too much hassle, when people were sailing or just at the club on weekends.
As an Ozzie, I am used to a separate house, single story, on a quarter acre block. Anything less is just not on. I want room to keep my cars & other gear, boat etc. under cover, & locked up. Even modern developments in Oz are starting to fall short of this requirement.
At the peak we had our cars, [wife & I], 3 kids cars, the boat, horse float, Ford F150 camper van/tow master, & my Triumph. At least 5 of these were worth keeping under cover.
Two of my kids now own largish homes on modern smaller lots. They have 2 car garages, with space for perhaps one car beside the usual junk. One can drive through one side of the garage to gain access to the back yard, the other had to hire a crane to get a small water tank lifted over the house.
When their kids have cars they will not have enough parking on a good day, it's all too much hassle for me. How people can put up with row housing with street parking in narrow streets I just can't imagine.
I have eaten in more than enough restaurants, been to enough shows & football games, & will take space every time. We have a new satellite city development about 8 kilometers away. I didn't realise there were so many builders on earth. They have built about a thousand homes, [on those smaller modern blocks] in about 6 months. I have a feeling I'll be looking for somewhere quieter, with more air, sometime soon.
That's all fair enough - space to park toys is your priority. A lot of people don't have that priority. I suppose if you are doing well enough you may be able to find suitable housing in the UK, or anywhere, but I did not see much when I was there. I was on a navy base, so didn't have to live in any of it.
I did live in a unit in Surfers Paradise once, but the annoyance of a shared underground car park was enough to drive me out. I even lived in a flat in Rushcutters Bay, opposite the cruising yacht club. On street parking was too much hassle, when people were sailing or just at the club on weekends.
As an Ozzie, I am used to a separate house, single story, on a quarter acre block. Anything less is just not on. I want room to keep my cars & other gear, boat etc. under cover, & locked up. Even modern developments in Oz are starting to fall short of this requirement.
At the peak we had our cars, [wife & I], 3 kids cars, the boat, horse float, Ford F150 camper van/tow master, & my Triumph. At least 5 of these were worth keeping under cover.
Two of my kids now own largish homes on modern smaller lots. They have 2 car garages, with space for perhaps one car beside the usual junk. One can drive through one side of the garage to gain access to the back yard, the other had to hire a crane to get a small water tank lifted over the house.
When their kids have cars they will not have enough parking on a good day, it's all too much hassle for me. How people can put up with row housing with street parking in narrow streets I just can't imagine.
I have eaten in more than enough restaurants, been to enough shows & football games, & will take space every time. We have a new satellite city development about 8 kilometers away. I didn't realise there were so many builders on earth. They have built about a thousand homes, [on those smaller modern blocks] in about 6 months. I have a feeling I'll be looking for somewhere quieter, with more air, sometime soon.
To dismiss all other housing choice because you are happy where you are is pretty short sighted.
I live in a built up area, lots of terrace houses and workers cottages, most with no off street parking. People want to live here because of access to other services and the location. Cars are not important to them, so why should they want a large house on a large block in the outer suburbs?
One thing we have not mentioned in this thread is the vast superiority of having a BBQ in Australia.
English BBQ. Note the need to have an umbrella and the excessive smoke from spending 5 hours trying to set fire to damp charcoal that has been in the shed for the last 12 months. The size of the BBQ is pathetic and I have no doubt that just out of shot there is 500 bottles of slightly warm, s
te french 3% lager someone picked up just the other side of the channel. I suppose the taste of the lager will help to dull the taste of charcoal, smoke, lighter fluid AND fire lighter blocks combined with burnt paper from trying to get the thing to light by shoving burning newspaper in to the coals.
Doesn't this look like jolly fun!
Do I really need to detail why an Aussie BBQ is superior to this experience?!
English BBQ. Note the need to have an umbrella and the excessive smoke from spending 5 hours trying to set fire to damp charcoal that has been in the shed for the last 12 months. The size of the BBQ is pathetic and I have no doubt that just out of shot there is 500 bottles of slightly warm, s
te french 3% lager someone picked up just the other side of the channel. I suppose the taste of the lager will help to dull the taste of charcoal, smoke, lighter fluid AND fire lighter blocks combined with burnt paper from trying to get the thing to light by shoving burning newspaper in to the coals. Doesn't this look like jolly fun!
Do I really need to detail why an Aussie BBQ is superior to this experience?!
Hasbeen said:
For me it is about housing.
I even lived in a flat in Rushcutters Bay, opposite the cruising yacht club. On street parking was too much hassle, when people were sailing or just at the club on weekends.
Me too, on New Beach Road, opposite the SCYC. Amazing location but surprisingly noisy. I was lucky enough to get an off street space but as you say, parking is impossible around there especially since the fitness craze has taken off and hundreds use the park before and after work.I even lived in a flat in Rushcutters Bay, opposite the cruising yacht club. On street parking was too much hassle, when people were sailing or just at the club on weekends.
Apparently it got it's name when a council worker was told to go and put up a new "Beach Road" sign.
Still, I loved the fact that with our UK driving licences we could get entry to the club and they did $15 Barramundi/Steaks on a Tues/Wed and sold Reschs on tap.
Siscar said:
Hmm, but as a sample to use there is a massive inbuilt bias there, of course they prefer their choice, of course they will justify their choice, no doubt they are right - for them.
I could ask a group of people who moved from Australia to the UK and chose to stay here, I'm guessing they wouldn't give the same opinions.
One of the big issues that confuses is that people aren't comparing like with like in a meaningful way. Move, for example, from Luton to Sydney and you will see a massive difference, not necessarily because of the UK to Australia but because Luton is, quite frankly, a dump whilst Sydney is a great city. Is food dreadful in Luton? I wouldn't be at all surprised. Do Wagga Wagga to Bristol and they are different worlds, but then Wagga to Melbourne are as well.
It's all personal and there are so many factors. My Caterham is out on a track - the likes of Silverstone, Donnington, Oulton Park - a fair number of times a year. Could I do that in Australia? Not so easily, does that make the UK better than Australia? Massively if it's important to you, not at all if it's not.
All personal, my point is simply that there are a lot of people who are informed on both and pick Australia and people who are equally well informed who pick the UK, neither one is really better than the other, they are different and the differences will work one way for one person and the other way for another.
Ok let me get this right, you are against war, you think that food is better in the UK but then again only in Waitrose and that you can only really know what you think if you fly back and forwards a bit, but it's ok if you don't cos it's what's important that matters but you have a Caterham and that's a good thing, well for you it is but you're not saying it's everyone's cup of T, or coffee cos coffee here IS much better than the UK? I could ask a group of people who moved from Australia to the UK and chose to stay here, I'm guessing they wouldn't give the same opinions.
One of the big issues that confuses is that people aren't comparing like with like in a meaningful way. Move, for example, from Luton to Sydney and you will see a massive difference, not necessarily because of the UK to Australia but because Luton is, quite frankly, a dump whilst Sydney is a great city. Is food dreadful in Luton? I wouldn't be at all surprised. Do Wagga Wagga to Bristol and they are different worlds, but then Wagga to Melbourne are as well.
It's all personal and there are so many factors. My Caterham is out on a track - the likes of Silverstone, Donnington, Oulton Park - a fair number of times a year. Could I do that in Australia? Not so easily, does that make the UK better than Australia? Massively if it's important to you, not at all if it's not.
All personal, my point is simply that there are a lot of people who are informed on both and pick Australia and people who are equally well informed who pick the UK, neither one is really better than the other, they are different and the differences will work one way for one person and the other way for another.
The Aussie BBQ is a myth of course, they are gas grills and the quality of food at most BBQ's is pretty bland - Coles BBQ sausages, white bread, tomato sauce and maybe some cheap BBQ tenderised beef if they are rich. Add a couple of packs of prepacked lettuce to complete.
Nobody BBQ's like the Americans.
Nobody BBQ's like the Americans.
thehawk said:
The Aussie BBQ is a myth of course, they are gas grills and the quality of food at most BBQ's is pretty bland - Coles BBQ sausages, white bread, tomato sauce and maybe some cheap BBQ tenderised beef if they are rich. Add a couple of packs of prepacked lettuce to complete.
Nobody BBQ's like the Americans.
My marinated mint/coriander swordfish with seared tomatoes with a red onion dressing would like to argue with you. Nobody BBQ's like the Americans.
Gassing Station | Australia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff