Discussion
Bibbs said:
Colonial said:
My marinated mint/coriander swordfish with seared tomatoes with a red onion dressing would like to argue with you.
As would me home made smoked pork and chilli sausages and slow cooked spiced pork ribs.English bacon is better.
custardtart said:
Ok let me get this right, you are against war, you think that food is better in the UK but then again only in Waitrose and that you can only really know what you think if you fly back and forwards a bit, but it's ok if you don't cos it's what's important that matters but you have a Caterham and that's a good thing, well for you it is but you're not saying it's everyone's cup of T, or coffee cos coffee here IS much better than the UK? 
That's a good job In misrepresenting what I am saying. As I'm sure most will understand and probably won't bother reading again, I'm saying is that he food is very good in both countries. Supermarkets are, in the main, better in the UK putting up sainsburys (a mid market company) against Woolworths and Coles. I find it hard to believe that anyone who has experienced both would disagree, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Waitrose is higher end and then there are places like the Harrods food hall but equally you can lose yourself in the David Jones food hall for a similar experience.
As for having an informed opinion you have to be informed somehow. Mine is spending half my time in one country and third in the other, you don't have to do that but clearly anyone who spends their life in one place is going to struggle to have the experience on which to base judgments.
As for the caterham, it's an example, if track days are important to you then being somewhere you can do them espasily and well is important. The's same is true if your preference is to take a boat out fishing in the warmth and sun, then being based where I am wouldn't be your choice.
As I keep saying it is personal.
Bibbs said:
In the UK, it would have taken me 2+ hours to get to work by train (and a 5 mile walk at each end), and by bus I'd have to leave the night before to get to work on time. It was a 30min off-peak drive.
That kind of depends on where you live compared to where you work. All around the world public transport is geared towards getting into and out of city centres, from my bit of Derbyshire I can get a train to Newcastle in the north or London in the south inside two hours. Getting into cities like Sheffield or Derby are inside 30 minutes. Taking 2 hours to get to work by train must have meant you lived a very long way from work or one or other (or both) was in an awkward place to get to.Pommygranite said:
Siscar - when and where did you live in Oz and for how long?
For the past ten years I've been spending three or four months a year there in hotels and apartments. Primarily in Sydney but a fair amount of time in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Canberra and Adelaide - in that order. I've been to a number of other places such as Darwin, Cairns, Hobart, Wagga Wagga, Gold Coast and others, but only for a few days. I've also got employees both locally recruited and relocated from the UK as well as a couple of Aussies here in the UK who've obviously relocated. I also talk to people in Australia every day, had two conversations totalling about an hour this morning, for example. Its just over two months since I was last there.Siscar said:
Pommygranite said:
Siscar - when and where did you live in Oz and for how long?
For the past ten years I've been spending three or four months a year there in hotels and apartments. Primarily in Sydney but a fair amount of time in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Canberra and Adelaide - in that order. I've been to a number of other places such as Darwin, Cairns, Hobart, Wagga Wagga, Gold Coast and others, but only for a few days. I've also got employees both locally recruited and relocated from the UK as well as a couple of Aussies here in the UK who've obviously relocated. I also talk to people in Australia every day, had two conversations totalling about an hour this morning, for example. Its just over two months since I was last there.Pommygranite said:
So you've not actually lived here as a resident on the basis of integrating your whole life as a resident?
That's right, lived with people doing that but not done it myself. Does that raise some doubt as to whether I am entitled to a valid opinion? One that has not been in the slightest bit negative to Australia other than the assertion that Woolies and Coles are a bit crap.But if you are talking about moving there I have had a lot of experience of people doing that, the joys of - for example - getting a mobile phone on contract. A hundred points of ID... Importing a car, wow, the costs and taxes and the joy of paying taxes on taxes. Then there's the pink slip and the green slip and the rego.... Bureaucracy - now that is something that Australia is a world leader at!
But having said that I've not tried to import a car into the UK, or tried to get a phone as a non-citizen or do most of the other things, so it's quite possible that it's another area that the UK may match Australia for - wouldn't want you to think that bureaucracy is a thing Australia is definitely ahead on.
Siscar said:
Pommygranite said:
So you've not actually lived here as a resident on the basis of integrating your whole life as a resident?
That's right, lived with people doing that but not done it myself. Does that raise some doubt as to whether I am entitled to a valid opinion? One that has not been in the slightest bit negative to Australia other than the assertion that Woolies and Coles are a bit crap.But if you are talking about moving there I have had a lot of experience of people doing that, the joys of - for example - getting a mobile phone on contract. A hundred points of ID... Importing a car, wow, the costs and taxes and the joy of paying taxes on taxes. Then there's the pink slip and the green slip and the rego.... Bureaucracy - now that is something that Australia is a world leader at!
But having said that I've not tried to import a car into the UK, or tried to get a phone as a non-citizen or do most of the other things, so it's quite possible that it's another area that the UK may match Australia for - wouldn't want you to think that bureaucracy is a thing Australia is definitely ahead on.
There are many on here that yes, have been around for a long time. However there a quite a few, and I have met them personally, moved here in the last 7-10 years, have repeatedly returned to the UK (like yourself in reverse) and there are quite a few that have moved here in the last 2-3 years. In essence you have a broad range of experiences but you seem to dismiss these opinions as bias.
You couldn't be further from the truth.
When we have got together, yes it does happen, there are a wide ranging number of views and they actually talk about the positives of the UK and Australia and give balance to both.
You have a bunch of guys who are mostly in their 30's and 40's who have spent most of their life in the UK, now reside here and therefore have quite a valid opinion, after sizeable experience, of both and they just happen to rate Australia as a better to place to live on the main. Its not bias, its educated opinions but for some reason it reads as if yours are more valid.
Me personally, I moved here 7 years ago, moved back to the UK for 6 mths in 2010, returning 2011 and have revisited the UK twice since then. So as I said unless the UK has socially, commercially, politically and emotionally changed in the last 2 years, which I would say it hasn't then our opinions are quite valid and really not without bias.
Do you know what the Poms here seem rate about the UK - cars, driving, tv, the country, the atmosphere, supermarkets (it seems), summer, Christmas, its soul and sociability. That's my observations. But for quality of life, lifestyle, weather and perhaps importantly, sense of well being, Australia has it soundly beaten. Just my observations.
Next time you wish to push your case about how your experience gives most credence perhaps consider your audience as we're mostly Pom, bit Australian and lucky to have both with a balanced and honest view on which we prefer.
You did make a point about urbanisation and questioned why - well if you knew Australia you would know why. Its only 200 yrs old, urban sprawl grows out not in so it can only grow so far in 200 years. In addition infrastructure (water, power, gas, telephone, emergency services, local authority etc) just isn't always possible or economically viable far from the population mass, nor has it had the population to justify, hence the urban sprawl size.
I am a born & bread Ozzie, from born & bread Ozzies, from very British family. You would think that makes me a proper Ozzie.
However it can't be so. You see I hate bar-b-cues. I hate daytime ones, fighting the flies, & in some areas, the goannas & kookaburras for your tucker.
I hate night time ones, when you could be eating Fido's dinner for all you know in the flickering dark. I also don't like half cooked, over cooked or charcoal food. I also detest mosquitoes, flies, sand flies, & moths that fall into the cooking. As a garnish they are a total fail.
I had a lovely bacon sandwich last night, cooked in a quality non stick pan, [far too good to ruin on a barbecue], on a clean electric range in a clean air conditioned kitchen, eaten in a clean air conditioned dining room. Why people with these comforts want to go out with the vermin to cook & eat, I really can't imagine.
Should I hand in my rubber thongs, slouch hat, & Holden V8 keys as I am unfit to have same, or are more Ozzies becoming sane in their old age.
However it can't be so. You see I hate bar-b-cues. I hate daytime ones, fighting the flies, & in some areas, the goannas & kookaburras for your tucker.
I hate night time ones, when you could be eating Fido's dinner for all you know in the flickering dark. I also don't like half cooked, over cooked or charcoal food. I also detest mosquitoes, flies, sand flies, & moths that fall into the cooking. As a garnish they are a total fail.
I had a lovely bacon sandwich last night, cooked in a quality non stick pan, [far too good to ruin on a barbecue], on a clean electric range in a clean air conditioned kitchen, eaten in a clean air conditioned dining room. Why people with these comforts want to go out with the vermin to cook & eat, I really can't imagine.
Should I hand in my rubber thongs, slouch hat, & Holden V8 keys as I am unfit to have same, or are more Ozzies becoming sane in their old age.
Pommygranite said:
Do you know what the Poms here seem rate about the UK - cars, driving, tv, the country, the atmosphere, supermarkets (it seems), summer, Christmas, its soul and sociability. That's my observations. But for quality of life, lifestyle, weather and perhaps importantly, sense of well being, Australia has it soundly beaten. Just my observations.
You can't define lifestyle though. My ideal lifestyle might be travel, musicals, theatre, visiting historical sites and galleries. In which case the UK would have Australia soundly beat. I also spend half my time in Singapore - I don't mind the heat, but this summer the flies are really starting to annoy me, as they totally ruin any outdoor activities.
Pommygranite said:
Lots of stuff
The audience is whoever is inclined to read but they could be anyone, the concept that they are only Poms who have relocated is a bit narrow but if that is the audience then fair enough, views are views whoever they are expressed to. I've never said that my experience gives the most credence, I'm just saying what my experience is, not least because you asked. I'm sure that others with contrary views have perfectly credible experience themselves.But people who have relocated to Australia and are still there and loving it are those for whom the lifestyle works. That's great, good for them, I'm pleased that they have found what suits them and for a lot of people they would find the same. As I keep saying, I'm not knocking the place, I wouldn't spend so much time there if I didn't realise that it's a great country.
The only thing I do question is the assertion made by you and others that in comparison to the UK 'Australia has it soundly beaten'. If that's true for you then that's great, you are obviously in the right place. But it's not a universal truth, there are many things that the Australian lifestyle does better than in the UK, but there are also many things that the UK lifestyle does better than in Australia. As I keep saying, it's personal, work out what's best for you and go with it, but don't get offended if the same things don't work for someone else.
Siscar said:
As for the caterham, it's an example, if track days are important to you then being somewhere you can do them espasily and well is important.
Nemo and I do the Festival of Sporting Cars rounds at Wakefield Park and Eastern Creek which was 8 days last year with three 2 day rounds and two 1 day rounds, this year there is only one 2 day round at Wakefield and three 1 day rounds at Eastern Creek.There is also the Supersprint and GEAR days / rounds, so another dozen or so track events should I choose to do them plus any number of club days.
Not forgetting the Bathurst at Easter where quite a few of our guys are running, unfortunately running Bathurst would use my track budget for this year so hopefully I can tick it off next year.
Not being able to get on the track in Sydney is a myth and there are three new tracks under construction and due to start running from late this year on.
My thoughts, as someone who moved here 7 years ago.
Eating out - Aus wins: general quality is far superior to the UK. I've never had a bad meal here. You also don't see any of that Brakes stuff being delivered to chain pubs like in the UK.
Supermarkets - there may be less choice in Aus, but the quality of the fresh produce is far better than the UK. Another plus is that they co-exist with the local baker/butcher/fishmonger/fruit shop, unlike the UK where they have killed the high street.
As an example, our town has 3 small supermarkets (Coles/IGA/Foodworks) and we still have 2 bakers, 2 butchers (one of which is in the same complex as IGA), a fruit shop, various clothes shops, cafes etc.
In the UK there would be one huge Tesco/Sainsburys/ASDA with a crappy café inside it and nothing else.
Housing - Aus wins for me. I'm on a half acre block and my shed has the same footprint as the mid-terrace house I had in the UK.
Public transport - I'd say in Melbourne it is better than the UK. The trams are fantastic. And even taking the car in to the city isn't a huge problem.
General quality of life - Aus wins. I'm 45 mins from Melbourne, the town has 4 schools, all of which have a good reputation, my commute isn't too bad. In the UK I lived in Swindon, to get this lifestyle I'd have had to have moved to the Cotswolds - probably prohibitively expensive.
Added bonus - I get to drive a V8 every day
I was last in the UK 2 years ago, over Christmas and New Year. My parents live in Ayr, so a reasonably big county town - the high street there is depressing - empty shop after empty shop, empty pubs etc etc. I visited friends in Swindon - in the town centre there was an empty site where they'd knocked down the police station (before I left) and hadn't rebuilt, the college in the centre was derelict, the park and ride in the north end was locked up and overgrown, the estate I used to live in used to have a crèche as you drove in, it was derelict: sad and depressing.
Would I move back - no way, never.
Eating out - Aus wins: general quality is far superior to the UK. I've never had a bad meal here. You also don't see any of that Brakes stuff being delivered to chain pubs like in the UK.
Supermarkets - there may be less choice in Aus, but the quality of the fresh produce is far better than the UK. Another plus is that they co-exist with the local baker/butcher/fishmonger/fruit shop, unlike the UK where they have killed the high street.
As an example, our town has 3 small supermarkets (Coles/IGA/Foodworks) and we still have 2 bakers, 2 butchers (one of which is in the same complex as IGA), a fruit shop, various clothes shops, cafes etc.
In the UK there would be one huge Tesco/Sainsburys/ASDA with a crappy café inside it and nothing else.
Housing - Aus wins for me. I'm on a half acre block and my shed has the same footprint as the mid-terrace house I had in the UK.
Public transport - I'd say in Melbourne it is better than the UK. The trams are fantastic. And even taking the car in to the city isn't a huge problem.
General quality of life - Aus wins. I'm 45 mins from Melbourne, the town has 4 schools, all of which have a good reputation, my commute isn't too bad. In the UK I lived in Swindon, to get this lifestyle I'd have had to have moved to the Cotswolds - probably prohibitively expensive.
Added bonus - I get to drive a V8 every day
I was last in the UK 2 years ago, over Christmas and New Year. My parents live in Ayr, so a reasonably big county town - the high street there is depressing - empty shop after empty shop, empty pubs etc etc. I visited friends in Swindon - in the town centre there was an empty site where they'd knocked down the police station (before I left) and hadn't rebuilt, the college in the centre was derelict, the park and ride in the north end was locked up and overgrown, the estate I used to live in used to have a crèche as you drove in, it was derelict: sad and depressing.
Would I move back - no way, never.
Siscar said:
Bibbs said:
In the UK, it would have taken me 2+ hours to get to work by train (and a 5 mile walk at each end), and by bus I'd have to leave the night before to get to work on time. It was a 30min off-peak drive.
Taking 2 hours to get to work by train must have meant you lived a very long way from work or one or other (or both) was in an awkward place to get to.Also didn't help that I lived a few miles from one station, and my work was a few more from the other. Wouldn't fancy walking it often with the UK climate.
But all swings and roundabouts.
It's interesting reading the thread and seeing different people's perspective, but the thing I pick up on is that almost everyone is writing from a completely different situation.
It's hard to compare Australia in general to the UK as the place is so varied in scenery, lifestyle, living costs, outlook etc. It's more akin to comparing London to Madrid in that respect than to Birmingham.
It's hard to compare Australia in general to the UK as the place is so varied in scenery, lifestyle, living costs, outlook etc. It's more akin to comparing London to Madrid in that respect than to Birmingham.
Mattt said:
It's interesting reading the thread and seeing different people's perspective, but the thing I pick up on is that almost everyone is writing from a completely different situation.
It's hard to compare Australia in general to the UK as the place is so varied in scenery, lifestyle, living costs, outlook etc. It's more akin to comparing London to Madrid in that respect than to Birmingham.
Exactly, it's personal, like comparing an apple to an orange and trying to decide which one is best.It's hard to compare Australia in general to the UK as the place is so varied in scenery, lifestyle, living costs, outlook etc. It's more akin to comparing London to Madrid in that respect than to Birmingham.
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