Oz driving has destroyed my love for cars in only a year
Discussion
Colonial said:
I've done the quick car route.
Slower more fun car works better in this country if you enjoy more than just traffic light grand prix.
I"m going back to this way of thinking too.Slower more fun car works better in this country if you enjoy more than just traffic light grand prix.
15 years ago I had an MG RV8 and went for a test drive in a TVR Chimaera. I think I wrote a short review here on PH and got panned by TVR owners (unsurprisingly) but I came to the conclusion that whilst the Tiv was way faster, more comfortable, practical and handled better in almost any situation it was significantly less fun. Mainly because the old MG had way more grunt than grip and the handling was such that it meant you really needed to be on it to hustle along at pace.
You wouldn't see which way a modern Golf Gti went down a twisty road but you'd arrive with a massive grin.
custardtart said:
Colonial said:
I've done the quick car route.
Slower more fun car works better in this country if you enjoy more than just traffic light grand prix.
I"m going back to this way of thinking too.Slower more fun car works better in this country if you enjoy more than just traffic light grand prix.
15 years ago I had an MG RV8 and went for a test drive in a TVR Chimaera. I think I wrote a short review here on PH and got panned by TVR owners (unsurprisingly) but I came to the conclusion that whilst the Tiv was way faster, more comfortable, practical and handled better in almost any situation it was significantly less fun. Mainly because the old MG had way more grunt than grip and the handling was such that it meant you really needed to be on it to hustle along at pace.
You wouldn't see which way a modern Golf Gti went down a twisty road but you'd arrive with a massive grin.
86/BRZ?
New MX5?
custardtart said:
Colonial said:
I've done the quick car route.
Slower more fun car works better in this country if you enjoy more than just traffic light grand prix.
I"m going back to this way of thinking too.Slower more fun car works better in this country if you enjoy more than just traffic light grand prix.
15 years ago I had an MG RV8 and went for a test drive in a TVR Chimaera. I think I wrote a short review here on PH and got panned by TVR owners (unsurprisingly) but I came to the conclusion that whilst the Tiv was way faster, more comfortable, practical and handled better in almost any situation it was significantly less fun. Mainly because the old MG had way more grunt than grip and the handling was such that it meant you really needed to be on it to hustle along at pace.
You wouldn't see which way a modern Golf Gti went down a twisty road but you'd arrive with a massive grin.
86/BRZ?
New MX5?
I can't see why anyone would want to "red line" a car. In most instances the quickest acceleration is achieved by changing somewhat before you reach the red line. The last time I red lined a car was in the F1 Brabham Repco down conrod straight in 1968. We chose to run just out of revs down Conrod, to give us better ratios around the circuit, & improved our lap times by doing so.
I agree that not only are very fast cars a bit useless on Oz roads, but also that those that are too competent are not as much fun. I am not prepared to exploit my Honda S2000 on a public road, even one I know with good visibility ahead. In fact while it is really great just under it's fairly high limit, it's overly quick too light steering is likely to get you into trouble in an unexpected emergency manoeuvre. The same goes for my highly enhanced Triumph TR8.
My basically stock TR7, with just heavier antiroll bars, wheels, tyres & good shocks is a kitten I can play with & even provoke. Like the kitten chasing a paper ball, it wants to have fun with me, not bite me to prove it's superiority.
It was pretty much the same back in those happy days when driving at 100 MPH was not considered a mortal sin. The Bathurst 327 Monaro was so forgiving it could be driven at 8 tenths all day, where my Morgan +4 was going to bite if you took such liberties on the public road very often.
I agree that not only are very fast cars a bit useless on Oz roads, but also that those that are too competent are not as much fun. I am not prepared to exploit my Honda S2000 on a public road, even one I know with good visibility ahead. In fact while it is really great just under it's fairly high limit, it's overly quick too light steering is likely to get you into trouble in an unexpected emergency manoeuvre. The same goes for my highly enhanced Triumph TR8.
My basically stock TR7, with just heavier antiroll bars, wheels, tyres & good shocks is a kitten I can play with & even provoke. Like the kitten chasing a paper ball, it wants to have fun with me, not bite me to prove it's superiority.
It was pretty much the same back in those happy days when driving at 100 MPH was not considered a mortal sin. The Bathurst 327 Monaro was so forgiving it could be driven at 8 tenths all day, where my Morgan +4 was going to bite if you took such liberties on the public road very often.
I have been living in Melbourne for a year and it has destroyed my love of driving too.
First of all the majority of cars out here are automatic and most people I talk to seem to have no interest in cars other than them being an appliance. Every second car is some bottom of the range Mazda, Hyundai, Suzuki or Kia automatic with the smallest engine possible. Secondly second hand cars out here are really expensive, I would say they are at least twice as expensive as cars in the UK. I find myself looking on eBay.co.uk and getting upset about the amount of amazing cars I could be buying for a few grand. When I show Australians how cheap M3s, M5s, Porsches and Aston Martins are in the UK they cannot believe it. Petrol is around $1.35 (about 65p) a litre, yet they moan about expensive it is. Rego (equivalent to road tax), on the other hand is around $750 a year and their insurance is at least twice as expensive as the UK.
The speed limit here for the most part is 100KPH and the police are draconian in enforcing this. If you get caught driving 102KPH you will be looking at around a £200 fine. This means you spend all your time watching the speedo, whereas in the UK as long as you are sensible and just keep up with traffic you will be fine.
Finally Australian drivers are very rude and uncooperative. You may not think it but most drivers in the UK think about what they are doing and are courteous. In Australia nobody is prepared to let you out of a junction or let you merge into a lane. I have had instances where a driver is quite happy to completely block a major road with their car as they try and pull into a car park.
Melbourne traffic can also be horrendous, easily on a par with the worse traffic in the UK.
In the whole year I have been here, the only drive I have enjoyed is along the Great Ocean Road and even then you are paranoid about being caught by a speed camera.
First of all the majority of cars out here are automatic and most people I talk to seem to have no interest in cars other than them being an appliance. Every second car is some bottom of the range Mazda, Hyundai, Suzuki or Kia automatic with the smallest engine possible. Secondly second hand cars out here are really expensive, I would say they are at least twice as expensive as cars in the UK. I find myself looking on eBay.co.uk and getting upset about the amount of amazing cars I could be buying for a few grand. When I show Australians how cheap M3s, M5s, Porsches and Aston Martins are in the UK they cannot believe it. Petrol is around $1.35 (about 65p) a litre, yet they moan about expensive it is. Rego (equivalent to road tax), on the other hand is around $750 a year and their insurance is at least twice as expensive as the UK.
The speed limit here for the most part is 100KPH and the police are draconian in enforcing this. If you get caught driving 102KPH you will be looking at around a £200 fine. This means you spend all your time watching the speedo, whereas in the UK as long as you are sensible and just keep up with traffic you will be fine.
Finally Australian drivers are very rude and uncooperative. You may not think it but most drivers in the UK think about what they are doing and are courteous. In Australia nobody is prepared to let you out of a junction or let you merge into a lane. I have had instances where a driver is quite happy to completely block a major road with their car as they try and pull into a car park.
Melbourne traffic can also be horrendous, easily on a par with the worse traffic in the UK.
In the whole year I have been here, the only drive I have enjoyed is along the Great Ocean Road and even then you are paranoid about being caught by a speed camera.
Joey Deacon said:
Finally Australian drivers are very rude and uncooperative. You may not think it but most drivers in the UK think about what they are doing and are courteous. In Australia nobody is prepared to let you out of a junction or let you merge into a lane.
I had a great one the other day, I'd come down the sliproad onto a 3 lane section of freeway in rush-hour. The next junction is about 1km further up and the left lane is marked "EXIT ONLY" by multiple signs and painted arrows on the road. So I accelerated to the same speed as the traffic in lane 2, indicated and attempted to move into a gap. Idiot in lane 2 decides to speed up to close the gap rather than moving into the huge space to his right in lane 3! I'm left to brake and pull in behind him rather than simply merging in-turn.Maybe it's just Perth drivers but they really dont have a clue what's going on around them. They never move over into lane 2 or 3 to let someone merge, even if the freeway is quiet.
Other dumbass things I've seen recently are:
- Driver in lane 2 of 3 indicating left and pulling over to the left side when lane 1 merges/ends (I see this quite often)
- Driver infront of me on an empty dual carriageway at 4:30AM indicates to move into the right lane, stays there for 1km then indicates to move back to the left. After another 1km he indicates right and moves over again ready to turn right at the lights.
- In mid-morning traffic on a dual carriageway I'm doing 80km/h with a commodore behind me for the last 2km, he could has passed easily at any time. I see a truck waiting to pull out and travel in the same direction as me so I indicate right and pull into lane 2 to give him some space, flash my lights to let him out. He pulls out into lane 1 just as Mr Commodore decides to come tearing past in lane 1. It was a massive truck, how did he not see what was going on?
having lived here all my life I don't see what the problem is, its just the way it is.
yes I agree that it feels dumb and counter intuitive to traffic flow and that you are going slower, but because you cant go any faster than the ridiculously low speed limit you are not actually held up at all anyway as you will all be stopped at the next set of lights anyway.
there are very very few roads within 1 hour of Melbourne worth "driving" anyway and for 9 times out of 10 it wont matter what car you are in.
so yes, it will destroy your love of driving, but does it need to destroy your love of Cars?
that's an entirely different question.
I would say the car culture is strong, there is normally something on every weekend if you look, lots of car clubs to get involved, lots of drives to be had, like minded people to meet?
maybe its just done differently to the UK and if your new here you need to get out more and enjoy the place a bit more?
all said in jest - completely agree that we cant drive, and that we cant even have uniform road laws across the country, ie in Tasmania it is Illegal to change lanes in the middle of an intersection, or on approach to an intersection where there is a solid white line, however i read on the Victorian police face book feed under the "quiz a coppa" section that changing lanes in an intersection or approaching an intersection is perfectly ok - WTF
Ryan
yes I agree that it feels dumb and counter intuitive to traffic flow and that you are going slower, but because you cant go any faster than the ridiculously low speed limit you are not actually held up at all anyway as you will all be stopped at the next set of lights anyway.
there are very very few roads within 1 hour of Melbourne worth "driving" anyway and for 9 times out of 10 it wont matter what car you are in.
so yes, it will destroy your love of driving, but does it need to destroy your love of Cars?
that's an entirely different question.
I would say the car culture is strong, there is normally something on every weekend if you look, lots of car clubs to get involved, lots of drives to be had, like minded people to meet?
maybe its just done differently to the UK and if your new here you need to get out more and enjoy the place a bit more?
all said in jest - completely agree that we cant drive, and that we cant even have uniform road laws across the country, ie in Tasmania it is Illegal to change lanes in the middle of an intersection, or on approach to an intersection where there is a solid white line, however i read on the Victorian police face book feed under the "quiz a coppa" section that changing lanes in an intersection or approaching an intersection is perfectly ok - WTF
Ryan
ezakimak said:
i read on the Victorian police face book feed under the "quiz a coppa" section that changing lanes in an intersection or approaching an intersection is perfectly ok - WTF
Ryan
My wife doesnt drive yet and is going through the process here in WA - The theory test says its fine to overtake in an intersection.Ryan
Time will tell if they teach her to look past the end of the bonnet!
Every single day here in NSW there are drivers doing silly/dangerous things. The ridiculous thing is, it takes so long to get a full licence here... I suppose most are taught by the older generation in their family over here, and I guess bad habits stick.
Nobody seems to know what a handbrake is over here. Cars roll back all the time at lights, junctions, hills, etc. Pulling out at speed at junctions and stop signs without slowing down or looking. Not indicating to let other road uses know what you are intending to do.
I have to admit that I have picked up a couple of bad habits since moving out here (coming back to blighty soon), and I am looking forward to safer drivers, and returning to 'normalish' driving.
Nobody seems to know what a handbrake is over here. Cars roll back all the time at lights, junctions, hills, etc. Pulling out at speed at junctions and stop signs without slowing down or looking. Not indicating to let other road uses know what you are intending to do.
I have to admit that I have picked up a couple of bad habits since moving out here (coming back to blighty soon), and I am looking forward to safer drivers, and returning to 'normalish' driving.
Whilst I don't want to be branded a whinging Pom, I have to agree. I used to drive 40k miles/yr in UK mostly at 95mph on motorways or as fast as I could, safely, along A roads and country roads, except in built-up areas where I would stick to the limit or lower if that was appropriate Ie children, busy etc. Since I have been in Aus, my love of driving has gone too, except on the very odd occasion I manage to sweep a nice stretch of country road first and then comeback the other way giving it some rice, but with eyes popped out of my head looking for cops! Sad, really sad.
Unfortunately, the focus on speed here completely ignores safety. I regularly see cars with no brake lights which police ignore (I will still draw drivers' attention to it at traffic lights, which despite doing it politely, they seem completely unfazed by!) and often terrible driving standards (i.e. tailgating, poor lane usage, lack of indicating etc) are totally ignored by the police.
what really grates, though, over and above this lot, is the lack of respect to other road users. This ranges from complete disregard for the safety of cyclists, to NEVER allowing anyone out of a junction in traffic (even when it makes EFF-ALL difference to their journey time) and a complete absence of defensive driving techniques, so that when an accident does occur, it tends to be serious, because no-one anticipated it at all.
I feel slightly better after my rant, but it is a shame. Sadly, Australian driving could be great, but it is blighted by over-zealous attention to speed, and no attention to safe, defensive and respectful driving techniques.
Time for a track day....
Unfortunately, the focus on speed here completely ignores safety. I regularly see cars with no brake lights which police ignore (I will still draw drivers' attention to it at traffic lights, which despite doing it politely, they seem completely unfazed by!) and often terrible driving standards (i.e. tailgating, poor lane usage, lack of indicating etc) are totally ignored by the police.
what really grates, though, over and above this lot, is the lack of respect to other road users. This ranges from complete disregard for the safety of cyclists, to NEVER allowing anyone out of a junction in traffic (even when it makes EFF-ALL difference to their journey time) and a complete absence of defensive driving techniques, so that when an accident does occur, it tends to be serious, because no-one anticipated it at all.
I feel slightly better after my rant, but it is a shame. Sadly, Australian driving could be great, but it is blighted by over-zealous attention to speed, and no attention to safe, defensive and respectful driving techniques.
Time for a track day....
Whilst I don't want to be branded a whinging Pom, I have to agree. I used to drive 40k miles/yr in UK mostly at 95mph on motorways or as fast as I could, safely, along A roads and country roads, except in built-up areas where I would stick to the limit or lower if that was appropriate Ie children, busy etc. Since I have been in Aus, my love of driving has gone too, except on the very odd occasion I manage to sweep a nice stretch of country road first and then comeback the other way giving it some rice, but with eyes popped out of my head looking for cops! Sad, really sad.
Unfortunately, the focus on speed here completely ignores safety. I regularly see cars with no brake lights which police ignore (I will still draw drivers' attention to it at traffic lights, which despite doing it politely, they seem completely unfazed by!) and often terrible driving standards (i.e. tailgating, poor lane usage, lack of indicating etc) are totally ignored by the police.
what really grates, though, over and above this lot, is the lack of respect to other road users. This ranges from complete disregard for the safety of cyclists, to NEVER allowing anyone out of a junction in traffic (even when it makes EFF-ALL difference to their journey time) and a complete absence of defensive driving techniques, so that when an accident does occur, it tends to be serious, because no-one anticipated it at all.
I feel slightly better after my rant, but it is a shame. Sadly, Australian driving could be great, but it is blighted by over-zealous attention to speed, and no attention to safe, defensive and respectful driving techniques.
Time for a track day....
Unfortunately, the focus on speed here completely ignores safety. I regularly see cars with no brake lights which police ignore (I will still draw drivers' attention to it at traffic lights, which despite doing it politely, they seem completely unfazed by!) and often terrible driving standards (i.e. tailgating, poor lane usage, lack of indicating etc) are totally ignored by the police.
what really grates, though, over and above this lot, is the lack of respect to other road users. This ranges from complete disregard for the safety of cyclists, to NEVER allowing anyone out of a junction in traffic (even when it makes EFF-ALL difference to their journey time) and a complete absence of defensive driving techniques, so that when an accident does occur, it tends to be serious, because no-one anticipated it at all.
I feel slightly better after my rant, but it is a shame. Sadly, Australian driving could be great, but it is blighted by over-zealous attention to speed, and no attention to safe, defensive and respectful driving techniques.
Time for a track day....
Does no one else think that one thing inherently wrong with driving in Australia is the proliferation of drive-through bottle shops?
Nowhere before have I seen people with the ability to buy alcohol and have it placed on the passenger seat next to them! Only just last weekend I was getting fuel at a servo that's alongside a drive-through and I saw a guy buy a small case of beer without leaving his ute - Imagine my surprise when I saw him driving off with an open "roadie" in his hand.
Why wont anyone say anything about it? Because the drive through's employ a lot of people and "its not a problem".
Shift alcohol sales into the supermarkets and shops and watch the drink-drive rates fall.
Whilst I'm having a rank, a lot of my Aussie colleagues seem to have no problem with having a drink or two then driving home. They've often said "there's no other way to get there, its not like England where you an get a bus" - No, it's not like England because Australia has a social drinking problem that people seem to ignore. If you cant get a bus or taxi home and know you're going to drive, dont have too much to drink you stupid dumb
.
Nowhere before have I seen people with the ability to buy alcohol and have it placed on the passenger seat next to them! Only just last weekend I was getting fuel at a servo that's alongside a drive-through and I saw a guy buy a small case of beer without leaving his ute - Imagine my surprise when I saw him driving off with an open "roadie" in his hand.
Why wont anyone say anything about it? Because the drive through's employ a lot of people and "its not a problem".
Shift alcohol sales into the supermarkets and shops and watch the drink-drive rates fall.
Whilst I'm having a rank, a lot of my Aussie colleagues seem to have no problem with having a drink or two then driving home. They've often said "there's no other way to get there, its not like England where you an get a bus" - No, it's not like England because Australia has a social drinking problem that people seem to ignore. If you cant get a bus or taxi home and know you're going to drive, dont have too much to drink you stupid dumb
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