Thinking about going to cobra
Discussion
My local garage was servicing one, so I asked the proprietor about it
"lovely looking thing", he said, "real head turner", "but it doesn't really handle".
This from a man whose daily driver is a Humber Hawk.......Ford 5 litre V8 up front, supercharger waiting to go in, whose drag times were down in the 9s back in the day.
Also he said to make very sure what engine is up front. They come with all sorts.
Gardener Douglas, just down the road from me, do a nice line in reputable replicas.
Gratuitous bit of boot porn.....
And some bonnet porn too...
"lovely looking thing", he said, "real head turner", "but it doesn't really handle".
This from a man whose daily driver is a Humber Hawk.......Ford 5 litre V8 up front, supercharger waiting to go in, whose drag times were down in the 9s back in the day.
Also he said to make very sure what engine is up front. They come with all sorts.
Gardener Douglas, just down the road from me, do a nice line in reputable replicas.
Gratuitous bit of boot porn.....
And some bonnet porn too...
I spoke to a guy with an American rep (better chassis apparently) with a modded BBF 427 and he said to be honest I would stick with your Chimaera 
not that I was considering but just curious 1st hand opinions cos I like them a lot, handling and really poor ground clearance was the main points, however he said he would never sell it but he said they are very focused and your not always in the mood he had various other cars too and knew his stuff, the best bit was 600hp 
not that I was considering but just curious 1st hand opinions cos I like them a lot, handling and really poor ground clearance was the main points, however he said he would never sell it but he said they are very focused and your not always in the mood he had various other cars too and knew his stuff, the best bit was 600hp Edited by Sardonicus on Sunday 23 October 19:35
QBee said:
Don't be conned - many of them have "427" on the badge on the side. It most certainly does not guarantee a big block 7+ litre engine up front.
Oh it was 
I know my American iron a big block makes the ground pound you dont get that with a small block or the RV8 he showed me the motor and we discussed the mods 
I once owned a 390ci big block motor same block as the 427 in his Cobra but see your point gets my goat when they have 427 badges but have a 350 Chevy for example fitted 
Not an expert by any means, but you could always ask in the Kit Car forum on here, or even better go and check out www.cobraclub.com
Such a wide variety of chassis designs, donor running gear and engines available generalisations are a bit pointless really.
For example, I wonder what a "better" chassis would be - more authentic perhaps? More sophisticated and modern, therefore potentially better handling than the original?
As said, GD have a good rep, as do AK and Crendon, or Hawk if you like the idea of a 289 (or a really authentic, imported Kirkham 427).
Such a wide variety of chassis designs, donor running gear and engines available generalisations are a bit pointless really.
For example, I wonder what a "better" chassis would be - more authentic perhaps? More sophisticated and modern, therefore potentially better handling than the original?
As said, GD have a good rep, as do AK and Crendon, or Hawk if you like the idea of a 289 (or a really authentic, imported Kirkham 427).
QBee said:
My local garage was servicing one, so I asked the proprietor about it
"lovely looking thing", he said, "real head turner", "but it doesn't really handle".
This from a man whose daily driver is a Humber Hawk.......Ford 5 litre V8 up front, supercharger waiting to go in, whose drag times were down in the 9s back in the day.
Also he said to make very sure what engine is up front. They come with all sorts.
Gardener Douglas, just down the road from me, do a nice line in reputable replicas.
Gratuitous bit of boot porn.....
And some bonnet porn too...
Thanks for the filth mate, just had a moment over the bonnet porn"lovely looking thing", he said, "real head turner", "but it doesn't really handle".
This from a man whose daily driver is a Humber Hawk.......Ford 5 litre V8 up front, supercharger waiting to go in, whose drag times were down in the 9s back in the day.
Also he said to make very sure what engine is up front. They come with all sorts.
Gardener Douglas, just down the road from me, do a nice line in reputable replicas.
Gratuitous bit of boot porn.....
And some bonnet porn too...
There's a huge gulf in quality when it comes to Cobra replica kits, then you need to assess the quality of each build on a case by case basis. One of the better kits build badly will be worse than a lesser kit built well, but in all cases the devil is in the detail, make no mistake to build a good Cobra kit well represents a huge amount of work.
Now, with that out of the way when comparing with a Chimaera you need to consider the two elephants in the Cobra replica room nobody seems to talk about.
1. As a car any Cobra is way way less practical than a Chimaera
2. For some bizarre reason any well built Cobra will cost at least twice the price of the far more complete and usable Chimaera
People slag off TVRs for their poor build quality yet fall over themselves for a Cobra replica without giving a second thought to who designed and built it. In my experience 90% of the Cobra replicas out there are totally rubbish, the top 10% are way too expensive for what they are and I suspect the novelty will soon ware off.
Compared with any kit car a Chimaera is actually a very well designed and complete thing, in many ways it was Peter Wheeler's interpretation of what a Cobra should have evolved into. A Cobra with 95% of the rough edges knocked off while still retaining the back to basics thrills and V8 soundtrack all wrapped up in a package you can actually use on a day to day basis.
I'd love a properly built 289 Hawk but we're talking about £30k for such a car and I'd probably only ever use it on warm days, I also suspect I'd be driving on my own as the wife would refuse to get in it... which possibly an advantage thinking about it
Having been around old cars for many years I've come to the conclusion most classics are just too frustrating to own and use regularly and the Cobra replicas I've experienced are some of the worst for this, I want my classic car to offer enough practicality to be genuinely usable so there's no way I'd pay double for something far worse than my Chimaera in every area except that classic 1960's look.
But even then most Cobras seem to get that 1960's svelte and classy 1960's aesthetic wrong anding garish paint, excessively swollen arches and interiors so out of keeping with the original they look cheap and gaudy. Everyone knows you're driving a fake so you're fooling no one.
When all is said and done you are way way better off with an original TVR Chimaera because you'll use it more which directly translates to more fun, then when you factor in the the fact the TVR is half the price of the Cobra rep you've really got to want that 1960's look for the kit car to make any sense at all.
All just my personal opinion of course
Now, with that out of the way when comparing with a Chimaera you need to consider the two elephants in the Cobra replica room nobody seems to talk about.
1. As a car any Cobra is way way less practical than a Chimaera
2. For some bizarre reason any well built Cobra will cost at least twice the price of the far more complete and usable Chimaera
People slag off TVRs for their poor build quality yet fall over themselves for a Cobra replica without giving a second thought to who designed and built it. In my experience 90% of the Cobra replicas out there are totally rubbish, the top 10% are way too expensive for what they are and I suspect the novelty will soon ware off.
Compared with any kit car a Chimaera is actually a very well designed and complete thing, in many ways it was Peter Wheeler's interpretation of what a Cobra should have evolved into. A Cobra with 95% of the rough edges knocked off while still retaining the back to basics thrills and V8 soundtrack all wrapped up in a package you can actually use on a day to day basis.
I'd love a properly built 289 Hawk but we're talking about £30k for such a car and I'd probably only ever use it on warm days, I also suspect I'd be driving on my own as the wife would refuse to get in it... which possibly an advantage thinking about it
Having been around old cars for many years I've come to the conclusion most classics are just too frustrating to own and use regularly and the Cobra replicas I've experienced are some of the worst for this, I want my classic car to offer enough practicality to be genuinely usable so there's no way I'd pay double for something far worse than my Chimaera in every area except that classic 1960's look.
But even then most Cobras seem to get that 1960's svelte and classy 1960's aesthetic wrong anding garish paint, excessively swollen arches and interiors so out of keeping with the original they look cheap and gaudy. Everyone knows you're driving a fake so you're fooling no one.
When all is said and done you are way way better off with an original TVR Chimaera because you'll use it more which directly translates to more fun, then when you factor in the the fact the TVR is half the price of the Cobra rep you've really got to want that 1960's look for the kit car to make any sense at all.
All just my personal opinion of course
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 24th October 11:31
semaj said:
My thoughts exactly Chimpongas. A company that specialises in used examples of these type of cars is often asking £50k+ for what are only kit cars! Try asking half that for a proper built car like ours and people piss themselves laughing, something wrong somewhere!
It's the TVR stigma effect semaj.We could get upset about it, I on the other hand choose to simply enjoy the benefits of driving the better car for a lot less money
It's the same with genuine classics.
I'd love a E-Type but the first thing I'd have to do to make it a usable car is put it on injection, improve the brakes and stick a Borg Warner T5 in it, three things that all come as standard in a Chimaera.
I'm not saying you can directly compare an E-Type with a TVR, but for those who want to enjoy that back to basics true British sports car driving experience without the 1960's technology drawbacks a TVR Chimaera makes a huge amount of sense.
A Cobra replica is neither a true classic like the E-Type or a 1990's British sports car icon as are the Griffith and the Chimaera, somehow the TVR brand still finds it hard to shake off the poor build quality reputation which along with the volume of Chimaeras produced helps keeps their prices artificially low.
A Cobra replica is something you'll use as toy a few weeks a year, if you buy a good one and drive it on the right road on the right day I can see it being an absolute joy. But because we live in a country where the weather is unpredictable and our roads are overcrowded the window you'll actually be get to enjoy that special Cobra moment becomes tiny.
You could drive it to France and have your Cobra fun there but the boot is way too small for touring and it'll exhaust you getting there, you're almost better off on a bike. If I lived in California close to the Pacific Coast Highway or in Melbourn Australia with the Great Ocean road on my doorstep it would be a different and much sunnier proposition, but we live in rainy old Blighty where the roads are overcrowded and not all that exiting to drive even if they were empty.
Like I say, you really would have to value those 1960's looks to pay the huge premium for the fake snake over the far superior TVR Chimaera. And I suspect most Cobra replica owners don't actually stay with their cars for long, I bet once they've scratched their Cobra fantasy and realised they aint all that they buy something more usable and for a lot less money.
The only person doing well out of all that is the dealer who buys it for £18k and immediately advertises the same car for £34k
I found myself at a MG specialist last week and they have a good business converting MGBs to 3.9 V8s, independant rear suspension and up-graded disc brakes. He made the observation that people are spending £20k+ on top of the price of the car, to create something with a bit less performance than a TVR!
Period looks are important to some!
Period looks are important to some!
TV8 said:
I found myself at a MG specialist last week and they have a good business converting MGBs to 3.9 V8s, independant rear suspension and up-graded disc brakes. He made the observation that people are spending £20k+ on top of the price of the car, to create something with a bit less performance than a TVR!
Period looks are important to some!
Another cockeyed example where people are happy to pay more for less Period looks are important to some!
Even though the MGB is a 1960 design and in many ways just a BMC parts bin special it was at least a volume production car that benefitted from some proper development, the original Cobra was an evolution of the Ace which was very much a design from a decade before the MG.
A replica of a 1950's design is unlikely to compete even with the 1960's MGB with a few upgrades like a Rover V8, better brakes and some suspension tweaks, in turn the uprated MGB can never hope to compete with a mid1990's TVR.
On the other hand If the op wants to scratch his Cobra itch then it's fair to say only a Cobra will do, as long as he accepts the Cobra reality might not actually measure up to his Cobra fantasy it may even deliver some real fun, but perhaps just for a couple of summers before the novelty begins to wear off?
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