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bobo

1,381 posts

164 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
the irony and utter shame being the v6 exige sounds possibly like the first half decent lotus product since god knows how long, albeit a bit simple and old school - but so what. even more amusing, its a DB product - yes like it or lump it, he brought it to the table - assuming the co stays afloat..

oh well there's always the new boxter or another euro box as a 'genuine' alternative if it all goes pear shaped. how incredibly dull !




zthomasz

80 posts

65 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
bobo said:
the irony and utter shame being the v6 exige sounds possibly like the first half decent lotus product since god knows how long, albeit a bit simple and old school - but so what. even more amusing, its a DB product - yes like it or lump it, he brought it to the table - assuming the co stays afloat..
Absolute bks. It was an MJK product.

No ifs, No buts, No coconuts.

Designed and developed before Dany Bahar arrived. Cancelled immediately after he arrived. Resurrected 18 months later when his vaporware failed to materialise.

You can kick and scream and stamp your feet but you cannot change history.

Edited by zthomasz on Saturday 14th April 06:22

Raitzi

624 posts

98 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
I think Evora S is a good car but here is why I would still choose Porsche:

-Gearbox is not very good and dual clutch box is not an option

-Price is high in comparison to cayman R/S

-Lotus is not available in many countries and servicing is therefore also problematic

-No track oriented version available

bobo

1,381 posts

164 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
says who? YOU?

i don't care if the pope blessed the idea in 1856. back in the real world its who delivers the product to market, thats what counts. what planet do you live on? only on a lotus forum would you get a response as emotionally delusional as that.

if the previous brigade were so sharp they would have delivered it (instead of yet another s2 sc 265.561 special edition paint job or lets start right at the beginning, an elise coupe for an exige) when you say they produced it.

if they had i would have bought it back then and not left the marque since selling my s1 exige ... as would many others worldwide..... so please, get a grip...








zthomasz said:
Absolute bks. It was an MJK product.

No ifs, No buts, No coconuts.

Designed and developed before Dany Bahar arrived. Cancelled immediately after he arrived. Resurrected 18 months later when his vaporware failed to materialise.

You can kick and scream and stamp your feet but you cannot change history.

Edited by zthomasz on Saturday 14th April 06:22[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by bobo on Saturday 14th April 12:51

zthomasz

80 posts

65 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
bobo said:
says who? YOU?
Again: You can kick and scream and stamp your feet like a petulent child, but you cannot ignore the facts.


bobo said:
back in the real world its who delivers the product to market,
Who has delivered the product to market? Oh thats right: NOBODY!

Certainly not Bahar, who cancelled it and was then forced to un-cancel it. Infact, he hasn't delivered anything to market, has he?


bobo said:
what planet do you live on?
Clearly a different one from you.

bobo said:
only on a lotus forum would you get a response as emotionally delusional as that.
Unlike you I am not a lotus fanboy. None of what I said was emotional, but I'm happy for you to provide evidence that it was delusional.

bobo said:
if the previous brigade were so sharp they would have delivered it
The previous brigade delivered alot more than Bahar, with alot less cash in alot less time. They delivered a completely new car and the versatile vehicle architecture that will supposedly underpin Dany Bahar's vaporware.

It doesn't matter which side of the debate you are on. You can support Dany Bahar, or oppose him. But you cannot deny that all products that are on sale now, or about to go on sale were designed before he got there. If he were to resign today he would be considered a failure. Perhaps that is not his fault, but it doesn't change the facts.

bobo said:
if they had i would have bought it back then and not left the marque since selling my s1 exige ... as would many others worldwide..... so please, get a grip...
Err, Dany Bahar CANCELLED it. Not sure what it is that you don't grasp about this. It really isn't that difficult a concept to understand.





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Hedgerley

573 posts

154 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
Latest news from Norfolk. Genii are taking a serious look. Last time I looked Lopez was good mates with Dany so maybe he'll stick around -

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/business/race_...

Interesting comments about Cameron and Malaysian Government 'embarrassment' with the current situation.

Ozzie Osmond

16,221 posts

132 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
Hedgerley said:
Latest news from Norfolk. Lopez was good mates with Dany....
What's this? Jennifer Lopez replacing Swizz Beatz?? scratchchin

Dainty Ankles

44 posts

40 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
zthomasz said:
bobo said:
the irony and utter shame being the v6 exige sounds possibly like the first half decent lotus product since god knows how long, albeit a bit simple and old school - but so what. even more amusing, its a DB product - yes like it or lump it, he brought it to the table - assuming the co stays afloat..
Absolute bks. It was an MJK product.

No ifs, No buts, No coconuts.

Designed and developed before Dany Bahar arrived. Cancelled immediately after he arrived. Resurrected 18 months later when his vaporware failed to materialise.

You can kick and scream and stamp your feet but you cannot change history.

Edited by zthomasz on Saturday 14th April 06:22
Sorry Bobo, but zthomasz is totally correct on this.

bertie

6,337 posts

170 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
Surely if it's sat with £200m in debt, you'd let it go pop and buy the assets?

I smell a pre pack.

bobo

1,381 posts

164 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
lol, yes he wrote another emotive short story about stamping feet etc. but the previous management didn't have or get close to releasing a toyota v6 sc exige as a finished product. that's one of the few facts on this thread as opposed to the abundance of conjecture.

whether db iced the project (and why) only becomes truly relevant when we know the financial commitment of the co with regards the evora.

Dainty Ankles said:
Sorry Bobo, but zthomasz is totally correct on this.
Edited by bobo on Saturday 14th April 18:37

bobo

1,381 posts

164 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
i suspect there's a little bit more foreign interest than what's being put out - frankly id be bloody surprised if there wasn't. deals are done further down the line.

bertie said:
Surely if it's sat with £200m in debt, you'd let it go pop and buy the assets?

I smell a pre pack.

RYH64E

4,973 posts

130 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
bertie said:
Surely if it's sat with £200m in debt, you'd let it go pop and buy the assets?

I smell a pre pack.
It's a) £200m in debt, b) making an annual loss, and c) only part way through an ambitious plan that needs a lot more investment with no guarantee (being charitable) of success, unless it has a very large asset base then surely the only option is to run a mile?

If it goes into administration the sensible money will be on writing off the debts, splitting off the engineering design side and closing down or substantially down sizing the car making division.

Ozzie Osmond

16,221 posts

132 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
Indeed.

Ask yourselves, how much would YOU pay to acquire Lotus Cars??

bobo

1,381 posts

164 months

[news] 
Saturday 14th April 2012 quote quote all
i can agree with that...

totally off topic and talking about bottomless pits ... i love the story that the 16 clubs in the chinese football league spent about 3 billion yuan ($476 million) buying foreign players 'this year' alone.

RYH64E said:
It's a) £200m in debt, b) making an annual loss, and c) only part way through an ambitious plan that needs a lot more investment with no guarantee (being charitable) of success, unless it has a very large asset base then surely the only option is to run a mile?

If it goes into administration the sensible money will be on writing off the debts, splitting off the engineering design side and closing down or substantially down sizing the car making division.

Hedgerley

573 posts

154 months

[news] 
Sunday 15th April 2012 quote quote all
OK, back on topic, Genii story picked up by the BBC today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17714...

Still not sure if this would be a good or bad thing.



Edited by Hedgerley on Sunday 15th April 00:49

doggydave

329 posts

61 months

[news] 
Sunday 15th April 2012 quote quote all
bobo said:
the irony and utter shame being the v6 exige, albeit a bit simple and old school -
Your description of the V6 Exige is changing bobo. You would never have used those words a couple of months back.

If this V6 Exige doesn't materialise then Lotus may as well pull the shutters down. It is everything a Lotus should be.

Ozzie Osmond

16,221 posts

132 months

[news] 
Sunday 15th April 2012 quote quote all
IMO "a good thing".

As a stand-alone business Lotus will either sink or swim on its own merit. They'll have to deliver some decent cars mighty quick and on a sensible cost base so Bahar's reckless dreams must surely be out the window. Which begs two questions,
  • What's the model stategy?
  • Who's the CEO?
Job One is to re-establish Lotus as a credible sports car company, long before there are any dreams of moving upmarket to compete with Porsche and Ferrari. Tough call.

bobo

1,381 posts

164 months

[news] 
Sunday 15th April 2012 quote quote all
My description from the start has been the same, makes the s2 look like a toy which it does. It also sounds like its not just with its looks but also its performance.

Old school, its hardly the latest Gen engine is it. Have I missed anything? It has the potential to really ruff up the more expensive competition. Surely that's a good thing.


quote=doggydave]

Your description of the V6 Exige is changing bobo. You would never have used those words a couple of months back.

If this V6 Exige doesn't materialise then Lotus may as well pull the shutters down. It is everything a Lotus should be.
[/quote]


Edited by bobo on Sunday 15th April 12:46

Tuna

4,785 posts

170 months

[news] 
Sunday 15th April 2012 quote quote all
Hedgerley said:
OK, back on topic, Genii story picked up by the BBC today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17714...

Still not sure if this would be a good or bad thing.
Bad thing. I don't think they have the clout to deliver the change Lotus needs. They're an investment co, and if I were in their boots I'd close the car group and run with the engineering arm.

Fastpedeller

643 posts

32 months

[news] 
Sunday 15th April 2012 quote quote all
Tuna said of Genii..
Bad thing. I don't think they have the clout to deliver the change Lotus needs. They're an investment co, and if I were in their boots I'd close the car group and run with the engineering arm.

Situation is (IMHO)that the 2 parts of the business compliment each other - Could Lotus Engineering be successful as a stand-alone? or does it need the undeniable handling/ride kudos of the Lotus Cars as it's sales pitch?
Unfortunately (again IMHO) it would appear the cars have limited sales potential due to achieving outstanding handling (far more than required for the highway) at the expense of comfort. A great niche/new product 15 years ago, but if it couldn't make a profit then????? It will be interesting to see what happens, but what company in the present climate would invest with very little prospect of a return?
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