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Tuna
4,512 posts
153 months
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RYH64E said: This is part of the problem Lotus face, at the level they want to compete at they have to get everything right, and their competitors have much more experience of the requirements of the market sector (and very slick marketing teams). If anyone wants to criticise Bahar, it should be for not getting their marketing department to run as slick an operation as their competition. For that, he has no excuse.
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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Tuna said: Scuffers said: Nail >>>>>>> Head.
until somebody get's a grip on how the cars are marketing/priced they are really not going to sell any.
(Just to bring up Porsche, the Elise S now costs significantly MORE than a Boxster, and the Evora S more than a 911) Hmm.. according to Car Pages, Elise S starts at £37,150, and the Porsche Boxter at £37,589 Exige S £53,850 Evora S £63,400 Perhaps either Bertie's getting himself confused, or Lotus are not making it clear that those prices are with the options added? Funnily enough whenever we get comparisons with Porsches, the base price is quoted for the Porsche (and for them, it really is a base price), and the full option-ed up price is quoted for the Lotus. You are right, the prices I quoted were for the cars as they stood there including options. Tuna, you clearly love Lotus and want them to suceed as do I. So can I ask you a couple of straight questions? Firstly, what do you think of the pricing? Second, what do you think they should do in terms of pricing and product? By the way, is it just me of does the Lotus website configurator not give prices? How crap is that?
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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My 2 favourite Lotus......  
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Ozzie Osmond
12,057 posts
115 months
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Tuna said: I think of all sportscars as 'niche' one way or another - they're very tightly defined sectors that distinguish say a 911 from a Gallardo, or a Mclaren from a Zonda. I'm not talking about inventing a new kind of car, just getting away from the "we'll be ok if we build a better car than the XXX" mentality that hangs everyone's hopes on a single model being the car of their dreams. 
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Fastpedeller
205 posts
15 months
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The Crack Fox
8,075 posts
61 months
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bertie said: My 2 favourite Lotus...... What a co-incidence, I stumbled across one myself yesterday, not quite as tidy ... 
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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The Crack Fox said: bertie said: My 2 favourite Lotus...... What a co-incidence, I stumbled across one myself yesterday, not quite as tidy ... I was stood looking at the yellow hardtop in the paddock and a guy stood enxt to me said he had one in bits at home, we were talking about how much they'd gone up in value. You weren't that guy were you?
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The Crack Fox
8,075 posts
61 months
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Nope. The scabby one pictured isn't mine, I'm working on a story and came across it in a greenhouse (!).
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marshalla
8,004 posts
70 months
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Bah. Lotus need to stop trying to compete with anyone and get back to building Lotuses - the cars nobody else could build until Lotus created them.
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Oilchange
2,837 posts
129 months
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This. ^^^^^^ All this rubbish about defining what car the Lotus is competing with is utter b  ks. A Lotus is a Lotus and shouldn't be 'compared' to a similarly priced Porsche/BMW/etc. 911's are dull as s t anyway. runs and hides
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Bazinga
11 posts
11 months
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Speaking as a Yank, the Lotus name over here is iconic. Supercar-like. That is partly because the cars are so rare over here... but therein lies the problem. They're rare because there are few dealerships, few service departments, and zero marketing. However, when seen... Folks ogle over them.
They are overpriced by comparison to competitors, but what rare sportscar isn't? Bottom line, Lotus has a lot to sort out when it comes to a marketing strategy, as well as finding better methods to reduce manufacturing costs to better compete in a global market. Maybe assembly plants in Mexico for the US market... etc. Without detailed insight as to why the cars cost they do, it's hard to speculate where the problem lies. Porsche had similar problems and addressed them through the development of more 'daily driver' type platforms (which had adverse effects with its purist customers), but these cars sell in higher numbers and 'pay the bills'.
The good news is they have a great brand an reputation. Time will tell if they can steer that to success.
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Oilchange
2,837 posts
129 months
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I recon anyone with petrol in their veins and an eye for a good advertising opportunity could raise the Lotus profile over in the States quiet easily.
What you need is to tap into the 'little boy who first saw an iconic Lotus sportscar' market and who have now grown to be able to afford it, to 'live the dream' if you like...
It really can't be that hard, can it?
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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Everyone seems to be talking about brand and marketing, surely the answer for any company is good product competitively priced.
I'm hardly hearing any views on what people think Lotus should do in terms of product and price.
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Bazinga
11 posts
11 months
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It's daunting to shell out $75k for a car with no service department. I will say they've made great strides over the past few years since introducing the Elise/Exige over here in 2005. In many areas, they teamed with Range Rover/Jaguar dealers to share service dept overhead costs. But these are few and far in-between... in some cases a few hundred miles.
The majority of American car buyers want a local dealer/service shop. Lotus is making great strides, but it takes time to build support infrastructure. In a market where reputation is critical, and reliability and performance is abundant via Porsche, Audi, Acura & Honda, their performance at Indy did not help.
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RYH64E
3,063 posts
113 months
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With enough money pretty much anything is possible, unfortunately Lotus hasn't got any money and I can't see why anyone would invest the sums needed to do the things discussed. It's just too risky imo.
I don't like being the continual pessimist, but you can't say what Lotus could achieve with new state of the art models, a comprehensive dealer network, a first class marketing campaign et al without considering the cost of such things and the prospects of getting a return on the total investment in the current economic climate.
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Scuffers
10,387 posts
143 months
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bertie said: Everyone seems to be talking about brand and marketing, surely the answer for any company is good product competitively priced.
I'm hardly hearing any views on what people think Lotus should do in terms of product and price. I agree to a point. this has been kicked around for years now, and to be honest, unless somebody comes up with a *HUGE* bag of cash, I really do think it's all too late. even if they had the designs and plans for a top line car, it will take too long to get it into the showrooms now. Ignoring all that, I still think canning the M250 was the start of where it went wrong (I am not saying the M250 was perfect, far from it, but it was the right direction. let's not forget the M250 was back in 1999.... since then you have to ask, what have they been ***ing about at?
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EK993
1,386 posts
120 months
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Oilchange said: I recon anyone with petrol in their veins and an eye for a good advertising opportunity could raise the Lotus profile over in the States quiet easily.
What you need is to tap into the 'little boy who first saw an iconic Lotus sportscar' market and who have now grown to be able to afford it, to 'live the dream' if you like...
It really can't be that hard, can it? Problem is they haven't got any product to sell over here - Elise and Exige sales stopped in 2011. Exige S isn't coming here. The only car on the market is the Evora, and let's be honest that's not really the car people want. Not much point raising the profile when you haven't got a product to sell.
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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bertie said: Tuna said: Scuffers said: Nail >>>>>>> Head.
until somebody get's a grip on how the cars are marketing/priced they are really not going to sell any.
(Just to bring up Porsche, the Elise S now costs significantly MORE than a Boxster, and the Evora S more than a 911) Hmm.. according to Car Pages, Elise S starts at £37,150, and the Porsche Boxter at £37,589 Exige S £53,850 Evora S £63,400 Perhaps either Bertie's getting himself confused, or Lotus are not making it clear that those prices are with the options added? Funnily enough whenever we get comparisons with Porsches, the base price is quoted for the Porsche (and for them, it really is a base price), and the full option-ed up price is quoted for the Lotus. You are right, the prices I quoted were for the cars as they stood there including options. Tuna, you clearly love Lotus and want them to suceed as do I. So can I ask you a couple of straight questions? Firstly, what do you think of the pricing? Second, what do you think they should do in terms of pricing and product? By the way, is it just me of does the Lotus website configurator not give prices? How crap is that? Nothing Tuna? Or anyone else?
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Scuffers
10,387 posts
143 months
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bertie said: Nothing Tuna? Or anyone else? well, as you ask! Elise - get back to basic's with a ~150-160Hp Elise at £20K start Exige S - Figure out why it's stupid heavy, loose some weight, sell it for £40K start Evora - Sort out the fit&finish, trim etc, then re-launch it at £35K start Evora S - same as above +£10K (with sensible options INCLUDED). after that, sort out the Esprit, and make sure it's 110% right. DO NOT pitch it against the 911/R8/Lambo - it will loose, either trump them on performance terms or price accordingly.
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