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dkturbo
Original Poster
85 posts
31 months
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otolith said: The Lotus F1 team has nothing in common with Lotus cars, though - not even sponsorship. From a consumers point of view they are linked, the myriad of business deals of an F1 team, that are running in the backgournd, is not of interest to most car buyers.
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bobo
1,056 posts
148 months
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As previously said in the thick of the negative uninformed speculation on here .... I would be surprised if there was only one bidder. Debt can be structured.... history, a valuable commodity for a carco can't!
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otolith
19,764 posts
74 months
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dkturbo said: otolith said: The Lotus F1 team has nothing in common with Lotus cars, though - not even sponsorship. From a consumers point of view they are linked, the myriad of business deals of an F1 team, that are running in the backgournd, is not of interest to most car buyers. As I understand it, it is quite likely that the team currently known as Lotus will be known as something else after this season.
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The Pits
3,847 posts
110 months
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I hope not.
Besides, I bet they've sold a lot more merchandise since they became 'Lotus'. So hopefully there will be a good financial incentive to continue.
The car has also been incredibly impressive, actually quite unlucky not to have won several races already, all of which has helped build a positive association. Who knows what they can achieve before the end of the season? I've not heard of a winning team changing its name yet.
It does puzzle me, if there is no longer any group lotus sponsorship, how come the group Lotus roundel is still so prominent?
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DallaraV8
33 posts
16 months
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Probably a simple matter of economics - 'Lotus' name taking prominent prime sponsor position on the car but contributing no financial input, so maybe a prime paying sponsor is being lined up with team name change as the carrot?
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Ozzie Osmond
12,408 posts
116 months
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otolith said: As I understand it, it is quite likely that the team currently known as Lotus will be known as something else after this season. ^^^^ This. I always enjoy seeing all the yellow Renault shirts as soon as the TV camera dips behind the scenes.
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Tuna
4,518 posts
154 months
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DallaraV8 said: Probably a simple matter of economics - 'Lotus' name taking prominent prime sponsor position on the car but contributing no financial input, so maybe a prime paying sponsor is being lined up with team name change as the carrot? A pity, as the BBC seems finally to be getting comfortable referring to them as Lotus and the winning association can only be good. This could have been a useful part of the reinvention of Lotus in the public's eye, but DRB will certainly have removed any chance of future sponsorship as part of their cost savings.
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The Pits
3,847 posts
110 months
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Of course a race team doesn't give a monkey's who's name's on the car as long as it's quick but by the same reasoning couldn't they be offering a main sponsor change for the second half of the season? The car's a very attractive prospect and half a season would be a much cheaper way of promoting yourself on a potentially winning car.
Whatever the reasons something is keeping the Group Lotus roundel all over the cars (I say Group Lotus roundel because it's not the Team Lotus version or anything else, they could easily have just reverted to the typed Lotus logos and removed the roundel, which is mainly benefitting Group Lotus), who knows maybe the other sponsors would prefer consistency in the team name.
I for one hope it stays Lotus from here on in. Renault have achieved extraordinary things in F1 but the Lotus name is much more evocative. It helps distance the team from that shameless crook Briatore too. If it does go at the end of the season then let it be in style with at least a win each for Raikonnen and Grosjean. Both they and their cars deserve it.
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Thorburn
1,262 posts
63 months
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Ozzie Osmond said: ^^^^ This.
I always enjoy seeing all the yellow Renault shirts as soon as the TV camera dips behind the scenes. Those are the engine guys, so you see them at Red Bull and Caterham as well.
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schrodinger
64 posts
60 months
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Changing the name of the team requires the unanimous consent of all other teams. They already just did this (to change to lotus) so they will not do it again. (this is also the reason the bbc now call them lotus - previously they were Renault sponsored by lotus ("lotus Renault" like "Vodafone Mercedes")
They might add a title sponsor (cf Vodafone above) but the car will still be a lotus.
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Scuffers
10,497 posts
144 months
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schrodinger said: Changing the name of the team requires the unanimous consent of all other teams. Not quite, that only if they want to maintain their team position in the pecking order. Without agreement, they start again as a new team.
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Thorburn
1,262 posts
63 months
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Scuffers said: Not quite, that only if they want to maintain their team position in the pecking order.
Without agreement, they start again as a new team. Would be a suicidal move if they finished 3rd in the constructors though as they'd lose the prize money wouldn't they?
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Scuffers
10,497 posts
144 months
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Thorburn said: Scuffers said: Not quite, that only if they want to maintain their team position in the pecking order.
Without agreement, they start again as a new team. Would be a suicidal move if they finished 3rd in the constructors though as they'd lose the prize money wouldn't they? yes/no. they would get this years, just not next (and on), so yes, financially it would be madness... that said, I am not sure what would happen if Group Lotus went another way and said they no longer can use the name? (no idea what agreement they have in the first place?)
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WayneB
125 posts
96 months
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Tuna said: Don't get 'em in a bunch, grandad.
As far as I can tell I've been pretty consistent in my stance.
1. The market has moved on since the days of the Esprit, and what the old guard want won't drive a successful business
2. Lotus need new product, and they need a range - they cannot risk it all on a single car.
3. They need (desperately) some proper investment to get there
4. They need stability in order to deliver.
5. I don't care who oversees that, be it MJK, Bahar or anyone else. It's about what is done, not who is in charge. I don't believe for a moment that a single figurehead is single handedly making the big decisions. This is a large company owned by a huge corporation, not your sweet shop.
I've avoided making criticism and accusations against anyone in Lotus - frankly they don't need it. No they're not perfect, but I'd much rather concentrate on the positive than rake over issues. If you've not got anything good to say... Hang on a mo Andy, I just have to hobble over to the computer and park my zimmer frame. What was I going to say now, cant remember must be the alzheimers and or dementure. Oh now I know, the old guard wont drive a succesfull business? How did you figure that one out? In my experience , middle class people over 50 have a fair bit of disposable income, kids are grown up, mortgage paid etc., so I and the other geriatrics I have as friends are in a pretty good position to be buying a sports car that I may want (not need) from a company like say Lotus. MJK understood that, after all he was in his late 60's himself and was driving an Exige when I met him. The new product bit is obvious, how many times can you re do an S1 Elise before it becomes as stale as week old bread, which is why I cant get all worked up with the Exige S. As for the investment they need, they apparently had 207 million which mostly got spent on a race track they didnt need, fancy offices they didnt need, and god knows what else. 207 million and the only new product is a rehashed Elise, sorry Evora test mule? I heard some positive news reciently via my hearing aid on the Esprit programme powertrain, so old guard Lotus customers like me may well be getting the somewhat affordable Esprit we wanted in the future, it may not now be Beverley Hills /gangstah rapper/oil sheik worthy, but I'm OK with that 
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BibsTLF
685 posts
77 months
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Scuffers said: that said, I am not sure what would happen if Group Lotus went another way and said they no longer can use the name? (no idea what agreement they have in the first place?) GL would be bonkers to rescind their permission. If the initial agreement is to be considered, this is worth £20m/year to them and they're getting it for free!
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chandrew
295 posts
79 months
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The F1 naming should just be seen as a licensing deal. In most of these type of deals the party with the strongest brand (Lotus) would be getting payment, not the other way round. If you buy a pair of Prada glasses they'll be made by Luxottica who will pay Prada for using their name. They do this because they can command bigger margin by using the Prada name.
The F1 team have increased sponsorship as a result of being Lotus as it's a powerful brand name in F1. Sure LG get a benefit as well but it seems the two parties believe they have a mutually good deal. I bet it's a lot easier to measure the value the F1 team are getting from using the brand than Group gets from having the F1 team winning races.
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PearlGarden
28 posts
12 months
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Unfortunately for our country we keep getting told that its the + middle ages that have all the wealth and buying power and They have pockets to empty, guess that’s why most car manufactures are making cars with mobility scooter steering and auto gearboxes. New cars are so boring at the moment. As for Lotus I have this horrible feeling its all going a bit Scimitar. I went to the Lotus festival at Brands this weekend and was taken aback by this year’s old boy brigade. Where were the youth and new generations of Lotus buyers? I must admit I came away early as it depressed me.
I have nothing against the older generations enjoying motoring, but if the economy is to recover we are going to need some good old-fashioned inflation to wipe out the older- privileged generations debts. Hopefully those in true working class might just get this country rolling again, a younger generation might just get some inflationary beating pay rises, and afford the next generation of Lotuses.
Seeing the “Chris Boardman” ridden Lotus bike reminded of a time when Lotus was last in the Sh!# it was the early 90’s. The economy was knackered, Debts needed paying! A comment by a car magazine, from the time, stated that given the bikes success that Lotus should build bikes and turn away from the car industry. Not long after that the Elise was born. Guess there is hope, but it needs to appeal to future generations if Lotus is to survive.
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Ozzie Osmond
12,408 posts
116 months
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PearlGarden said: As for Lotus I have this horrible feeling its all going a bit Scimitar. I went to the Lotus festival at Brands this weekend and was taken aback by this year’s old boy brigade. Where were the youth and new generations of Lotus buyers? I must admit I came away early as it depressed me. Not that surprising when you reckon Lotus haven't launched a new car (that anyone wants to buy in numbers) for nearly 20 years and all their new gear costs over £50k when the kids aspiration is a quick sub-£30k coupe.
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PearlGarden
28 posts
12 months
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Ozzie Osmond said: Not that surprising when you reckon Lotus haven't launched a new car (that anyone wants to buy in numbers) for nearly 20 years and all their new gear costs over £50k when the kids aspiration is a quick sub-£30k coupe. Err that’s not my reckoning! The 1.6 Elise would sell in numbers if it could be made cheap enough. Not necessarily in manufacture, but in financing. Compared to an MX5 the Elise looks an expensive outlay, but take in to account future trade in values the fact that Elise feels extraordinary to drive in comparison to the MX5 and is cheaper to run (Tax, Fuel and depreciation) and the Elise could start to make some sense. It just needs some descent advertising. A good headline hire purchase advert might make people think and its environmental credentials wouldn’t put people off. A quick sub 30K coupe. They did about 4 years ago. It had bad press and didn’t sell, but some of us did see the potential!
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RYH64E
3,421 posts
114 months
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