Will Lotus cars make it to 2015?
Discussion
Ozzie Osmond said:
There are IMO two main problems with Evora and they are closely related,
- Pointless 2+2 packaging, which resulted in
- Compromised exterior styling.
Ozzie Osmond said:
I'm sure Exige V6 is a very fine track car but I wouldn't want one for road use and suspect the market is limited.
it's not, hence the problem, just what is the Evora?Scuffers said:
nobody (apart from a handful of die-hards) is going to buy a Lotus as a family car.
Agreed but no 2 seater is, even Porsche is not a family car the point is no one buys a 2 seater or +2 as a family car may be an occasional car but they are all luxury items even a 2nd hand Porsche, Elise or 7 they cannot be compared to a mainstream 4 door runaround be it a BMW, Merc, Lexus etc.Since 2007 around 200,000 people have lost there jobs in retail heaven knows how hard the building industry has been hit and many other trades and business sectors its no wonder people are not spending money on a 'luxury' such as a sports/performance car and probably why what is being manufactured is going abroad !
Toaster said:
Scuffers said:
nobody (apart from a handful of die-hards) is going to buy a Lotus as a family car.
Agreed but no 2 seater is, even Porsche is not a family car the point is no one buys a 2 seater or +2 as a family car may be an occasional car but they are all luxury items even a 2nd hand Porsche, Elise or 7 they cannot be compared to a mainstream 4 door runaround be it a BMW, Merc, Lexus etc.Since 2007 around 200,000 people have lost there jobs in retail heaven knows how hard the building industry has been hit and many other trades and business sectors its no wonder people are not spending money on a 'luxury' such as a sports/performance car and probably why what is being manufactured is going abroad !
that's not the problem, that's just an excuse.
Yes, people do not by a Porsche as a family car (although a Cayenne/panamera would cut it)
the point is it's not a good sportscar to start with, which is back to my point, what is it?
and at some £70K, that's a dam expensive what if?
Scuffers said:
then explain why Ferrari and the like are having record sales?
Is that record sales worldwide, or record sales in the UK? Where is Lotus' dealer network concentrated?As for 'the like' Porsche's sales in the UK have dropped by a third, and I've heard that McLaren aren't drowning in orders for the miracle MP4-12C. These are manufacturers with established markets and huge budgets. Lotus launched their first new car in decades after years of neglect and decline. Not an excuse, just a hard fact.
Scuffers said:
that's not the problem, that's just an excuse.
Yes, people do not by a Porsche as a family car (although a Cayenne/panamera would cut it)
the point is it's not a good sportscar to start with, which is back to my point, what is it?
and at some £70K, that's a dam expensive what if?
I don't know why we're rehashing the Evora conversation yet again. Lotus are not in a position to engineer a new car out of nothing. What they've got now is what they're stuck with. They might be able to facelift, but that's your lot. So the question is - is there anything in their range that can sell cars, is there a market they can address, can they get people into dealers? In short, where are the opportunities for Lotus given the cloth they've cut?Yes, people do not by a Porsche as a family car (although a Cayenne/panamera would cut it)
the point is it's not a good sportscar to start with, which is back to my point, what is it?
and at some £70K, that's a dam expensive what if?
The question of whether the Evora is good or not is absolutely irrelevant (and boring, and entrenched on all sides) - the only question is what can they do to maximise profitable sales (ie. not by just discounting the models) in order to survive.
Tuna said:
I don't know why we're rehashing the Evora conversation yet again. Lotus are not in a position to engineer a new car out of nothing. What they've got now is what they're stuck with. They might be able to facelift, but that's your lot. So the question is - is there anything in their range that can sell cars, is there a market they can address, can they get people into dealers? In short, where are the opportunities for Lotus given the cloth they've cut?
The question of whether the Evora is good or not is absolutely irrelevant (and boring, and entrenched on all sides) - the only question is what can they do to maximise profitable sales (ie. not by just discounting the models) in order to survive.
no, the point is, Lotus gambled everything on the Evora, it's failed, no money left to have a plan BThe question of whether the Evora is good or not is absolutely irrelevant (and boring, and entrenched on all sides) - the only question is what can they do to maximise profitable sales (ie. not by just discounting the models) in order to survive.
this is all BEFORE Danny-boy hit the scene....
Scuffers said:
no, the point is, Lotus gambled everything on the Evora, it's failed, no money left to have a plan B
this is all BEFORE Danny-boy hit the scene....
OK, so we can summarise your position as - "no, they won't make it 2015, there's nothing they can do", and stop going over old ground perhaps?this is all BEFORE Danny-boy hit the scene....
Tuna said:
OK, so we can summarise your position as - "no, they won't make it 2015, there's nothing they can do", and stop going over old ground perhaps?
not really no...'WE' have no idea, as all the cards are in Hicoms hands, if they are happy to keep pumping several million a week into Lotus, then they will survive, if they don't, then Lotus are screwed.
the point I was making however, is bad a mess as Danny-boy made, all he actually did was accelerate how fast they got to this point.
edit:
this kind of answers some of the question:
http://paultan.org/2013/01/15/lotus-five-concept-c...
so they are in a £270+£88M hole (that's growing), somewhat higher than the Half-billion Dollars talked about last year
Edited by Scuffers on Tuesday 15th January 08:17
News overnight from Malaysia, media event held announcing the Paris show cars are officially canned, reiterates Lotus not for sale and loans to be repaid once they mature: http://www.seloc.org/2013/01/drb-hicom-paris-five-...
Toaster said:
Scuffers said:
, just what is the Evora?
Its a performance car people seem to loath it or love it :-)Lotusevoraboy said:
Virtually all non sports or non super car owners love it. It only seems to be those that own cars in the same bracket e.g. Porsche, that seem to hate it, probably because it handles better, is more eye catching, niche and popular among the general public. Porsche owners are seen as knobs.
Are they?Shame all these people who think that don't have the funds, desire or interest in buying any Evoras then.
It's pretty stupid to treat appreciation of different manufacturers cars as a vehicle version of football. No one stopping you from liking more than one.
If the Evora was any good I'd have bought one!
I've never owned a Porsche before but bought it for one simple reason - for my use of a car it's the best £50k mid-engined sportscar on sale today by a substantial distance.
Lotus fanboys need to ask themselves "Why doesn't the Evora sell?" rather than throwing mud at the competition.
I've never owned a Porsche before but bought it for one simple reason - for my use of a car it's the best £50k mid-engined sportscar on sale today by a substantial distance.
Lotus fanboys need to ask themselves "Why doesn't the Evora sell?" rather than throwing mud at the competition.
Ozzie Osmond said:
If the Evora was any good I'd have bought one!
I've never owned a Porsche before but bought it for one simple reason - for my use of a car it's the best £50k mid-engined sportscar on sale today by a substantial distance.
Lotus fanboys need to ask themselves "Why doesn't the Evora sell?" rather than throwing mud at the competition.
Exactly...I've never owned a Porsche before but bought it for one simple reason - for my use of a car it's the best £50k mid-engined sportscar on sale today by a substantial distance.
Lotus fanboys need to ask themselves "Why doesn't the Evora sell?" rather than throwing mud at the competition.
Classic case of shooting the messenger, people need to face the facts, it got the best reviews when launched from just about all the hacks, all the mags liked it, NOBODY BOROUGH IT?
Ozzie Osmond said:
Lotus fanboys need to ask themselves "Why doesn't the Evora sell?" rather than throwing mud at the competition.
It was priced wrong. Simple as that for me (Evora driver).But we don't know how the maths stacks up - maybe they couldn't pitch it against 40k Caymans?
Great cars.
Lotus will never ever appeal to most Porsche drivers without a major change in culture which I can't see happening. I like Porsches and fancy a 911 as the next car in a few years, but a lot of German metal is bought for the same reason Rolexes (Rolexi(?)) are. Doesn't make them any less capaable products - just means they are snaring people for reasons that Lotus aren't and couldn't.
otolith said:
If the Evora prioritised what you want out of a sportscar, you might have bought one.
If Lotus prioritised what Porsche buyers want out of a sportscar, those of us who do like what Lotus do would be s
t out of luck.
Put much more articulately then me - great couple of sentences.If Lotus prioritised what Porsche buyers want out of a sportscar, those of us who do like what Lotus do would be s
t out of luck.Ozzie Osmond said:
If the Evora was any good I'd have bought one!
I've never owned a Porsche before but bought it for one simple reason - for my use of a car it's the best £50k mid-engined sportscar on sale today by a substantial distance.
Lotus fanboys need to ask themselves "Why doesn't the Evora sell?" rather than throwing mud at the competition.
OK Ozzie its not about if its 'any good' because it is good, my guess there s a mixed bag of reasons why the slow down in sales. One is the down turn of the economy, another the uncertainty of Lotus as a brand. MKJ gave the car a great launch and how DB handled it after him is debatable but what you are stating is that your bias and preference for Porsche taints your view. I would never buy a Porsche possibly similar reasons that you wont by a Lotus. But heck its yours your proud of it and I am not going to rain on your parade but go be a Porsche fan boy on their threads and leave us Lotus Fan boys alone :-) I've never owned a Porsche before but bought it for one simple reason - for my use of a car it's the best £50k mid-engined sportscar on sale today by a substantial distance.
Lotus fanboys need to ask themselves "Why doesn't the Evora sell?" rather than throwing mud at the competition.
Clearly there are many who do not agree with your views and there maybe an equal number that do who cares. There are probably many cars you wont buy/dont like so what go and chat with those who share your values.... I do mean that in a friendly way
otolith said:
If the Evora prioritised what you want out of a sportscar, you might have bought one.
If Lotus prioritised what Porsche buyers want out of a sportscar, those of us who do like what Lotus do would be st out of luck.
Yes, there would be several disappointed potential Lotus buyers, maybe as many as a few.If Lotus prioritised what Porsche buyers want out of a sportscar, those of us who do like what Lotus do would be s
t out of luck.Gassing Station | General Lotus Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff