Will Lotus cars make it to 2015?

Will Lotus cars make it to 2015?

Author
Discussion

WayneB

208 posts

225 months

Sunday 26th February 2012
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Tuna said:
For most of the western world that's what a lot of people think of Lotus. Just read the threads on the American forums on people trying to explain their car to strangers. If it's not that, it's "loads of trouble usually serious"...

Obviously it's stupid but it's amazing what poor brand recognition Lotus have.
A couple of years ago I was at a gas station filling an Aston Martin DB9 up with fuel, and a guy came over to ask me what kind of car it was and who had made it.

It just goes to illustrate that despite Ford spending millions to promote the Aston Martin brand (via James Bond movies etc), there will always be some who have no idea what one is.

I dont personally think that Lotus will ever be a brand that will be very well known to all and sundry, despite the huge amounts that the current CEO is spending to promote it.

I think it operates best as a niche brand that is appreciated and loved by the few enthusiasts who are intelegent enough to understand what unique and interesting cars they make.

Promotion money is much better spent on developing and building good product, that will atract more customers than advertising ever will in the case of Lotus.


Raitzi

640 posts

211 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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Do you think it would be wise for lotus offer their cars and services be available from Toyota dealerships?

I mean it would be cheaper than have own dealers in every country and motors are mostly based on Toyota units. Now they just seem to be shrinking their global network it makes me sad frown

Gompo

4,390 posts

257 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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Raitzi said:
Do you think it would be wise for lotus offer their cars and services be available from Toyota dealerships?
While it would obviously be convenient I don't think that would convey the type of image that Bahar is pushing for, it would de-value the 'brand'.

Kamox

125 posts

171 months

Monday 5th March 2012
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I wonder how Lotus keeps going on... here are the sales figures for Europe regarding 2011 (compared to 2010).
Evora: 370 cars (+8%);
Elise/Exige: 321 cars (-43%).
For comparison, in the same year and market, Lamborghini sold 319 Gallardo's, Aston Martin sold 859 Vantage's and Porsche sold 1,986 Caymans.

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

264 months

Monday 5th March 2012
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Kamox said:
I wonder how Lotus keeps going on... here are the sales figures for Europe regarding 2011 (compared to 2010).
Evora: 370 cars (+8%);
Elise/Exige: 321 cars (-43%).
For comparison, in the same year and market, Lamborghini sold 319 Gallardo's, Aston Martin sold 859 Vantage's and Porsche sold 1,986 Caymans.
Now pick a year in which the fast versions of the small cars weren't outlawed in Europe due to emissions. For 2012 the Elise range includes a 220bhp SC again, and the Exige returns with a 350bhp V6. This should pep up the sales figures a tad.

Hedgerley

620 posts

267 months

Monday 5th March 2012
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Not forgetting the 200+ orders for the Evora GTE @ £120k a pop, with more destined for Europe. That should help with the cash flow somewhat....

chandrew

979 posts

208 months

Monday 5th March 2012
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Kamox said:
I wonder how Lotus keeps going on... here are the sales figures for Europe regarding 2011 (compared to 2010).
Evora: 370 cars (+8%);
Elise/Exige: 321 cars (-43%).
For comparison, in the same year and market, Lamborghini sold 319 Gallardo's, Aston Martin sold 859 Vantage's and Porsche sold 1,986 Caymans.
Making 2100 cars for Tesla can't have helped, nor can engineering (which has been hiring aggressively on increased sales to my knowledge).

Raitzi

640 posts

211 months

Tuesday 6th March 2012
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Gompo said:
While it would obviously be convenient I don't think that would convey the type of image that Bahar is pushing for, it would de-value the 'brand'.
How about Lexus dealers then smile Of course it depends how in practice they would do it.

GingerNinja

3,960 posts

257 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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Couldn't find this anywhere else, but after a chat with Mr Behr, Evo are reporting that all development at Lotus is suspended for 3 months

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/279961/lotus_dev...

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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the timing is horrendous.

very sad about this.

vast amounts of cash being burnt, nothing coming in. New elise SC and Exige are desperately needed (400 orders already for the Exige V6) but this will only delay them further.

how long can they last with only the Evora and base elise? Certainly not until 2015. They'll be doing well to see the end of 2012.

It's beyond tragic.

Losing TVR was bad enough, losing Lotus is unthinkable.

Kamox

125 posts

171 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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No cash flow = no business.
I hope Bahar will manage to persuade the new owners to invest in Lotus (be it the whole new product line or just a piece of the latter), for 2012 the Exige S should keep Lotus afloat so stopping its sales would be an idiotic move... let's hope for the best.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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This is old news, and has been mentioned on a number of Lotus threads.

Whilst the timing is poor, it's not the end of Lotus, and the new owners have apparently made a commitment to follow through on Proton's plans. This'll hopefully validate the current plans and let Lotus get on without people constantly sniping.

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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Bahar himself has said it's 50:50 at the moment as to whether he'll get go ahead with the business plan. That's according to Evo but it's quite a change in Bahar's normally upbeat tune.

Virtually no dealer network, relying on a 1.6 elise that isn't finding buyers (most elise owners already have better than that) and the unappreciated Evora for your cashflow is precarious to say the least. I just hope they can get the Exige S in production soon. The new owners may well decide it's just not worth the gamble and pull the plug.

AFC1886

3,342 posts

149 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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Do you think it would be a good thing if someone like Toyota or VW bought Lotus? Have any of the big car companies ever expressed any interest?

Since Lotus use Toyota engines already and they now want to be seen as a more 'sporty' brand, maybe they could turn Lotus' fortunes around? I hope someone does! weeping

1981linley

937 posts

146 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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You are right...old news...we were discussing this on another thread about four weeks ago and the production line having ceased due to Malaysian government regs restricting cash flow for 60-90 days or so.

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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Yes but before it was just procedure, standard practice, formality, as you were after 3 months.

Now it's 50:50.

Personally I think the future cars would benefit from a rethink but it's delays to the iminent and seemingly popular models that are costing Lotus dear. If a dispassionate new owner take a look at how things are currently with his business head on the numbers would surely suggest not putting any more money into that company.

No-one would be happier than me if Lotus can get through this but its looking touch and go at the moment.

All I can do is add to the order count for the new Exige. Was planning to anyway but was waiting to drive it first.

1981linley

937 posts

146 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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What are they doing displaying at Geneva then...keeping up appearances? Making it look a viable business? The GTE Evora looks great...would love that spoiler on my stock Evora.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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AFC1886 said:
Do you think it would be a good thing if someone like Toyota or VW bought Lotus? Have any of the big car companies ever expressed any interest?
Personally I think it would be pretty bad for Lotus if Toyota or VW bought them. Though in VW's case, there's no reason to - they have the sports brands they need. There is no quick fix or magic product that's going to instantly transform Lotus - so jumping into bed with another manufacturer half way through the current strategy would only set them back another five years. There's only so many times you can go back to the drawing board before the business is beyond rescue.

From what I've read of the new owners (DRB Hicom), they look to be a very good fit for Lotus and to have the financial clout to make their plans stick. The big question (and the one Mr Bahar has to answer) is whether the big turn around plan looks like it is going to work. It's painfully early to tell, particularly if they have to be judged solely on cars that are a legacy of previous management. At the same time though, Bahar does seem to be learning, and the cars that he's delivering right now seem to be getting people interested in the marque again.

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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Geneva plans would have been made and budgeted for many months ago.

The Esprit launch was planned for this time next year. It's already been cancelled along with any further development on it. It's up to the new owners now, not Danny Bahar and co.

Eliser

1,153 posts

226 months

Wednesday 7th March 2012
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For any sane business person- Bahar's 'vision' was never acheivable - good for him that he was able to convince the gullible that the South Sea Bubble Model was indeed alive, well and brought up to date wink

Calling Tony Fernandes shout