Will Lotus cars make it to 2015?

Will Lotus cars make it to 2015?

Author
Discussion

RYH64E

7,960 posts

243 months

Wednesday 11th April 2012
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WayneB said:
As to hazzard a guess as to where Dany Bahar has dissapeared to ATM ,If I were him I would have flown to Malaysia and be groveling on my knees in front of the DRB-Hicom board in an attempt to keep my job.
Really? If I were in DB's position I would be quite happy to leave with a pay off and the excuse that there was nothing wrong with the plan, everything was on track, it would have worked if people stuck with it, it's not my fault that new investors got cold feet etc. The worst thing that could happen to DB is to stay around and watch the plan crash and burn, which imo is/was inevitable.

Hedgerley

620 posts

267 months

Wednesday 11th April 2012
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WayneB said:
If I were him I would have flown to Malaysia and be groveling on my knees in front of the DRB-Hicom board in an attempt to keep my job.
He has - he's been flying there weekly since the acquisition closed to convince DRB-Hicom that Lotus is worth keeping and worth Proton's continued investment. He's delivered much of what he said he would in the first two years, in fact more so as he realised the importance of continuing developing/improving the Evora and pushing ahead with the Exige V6. There's a new FIA appoved test track, new garages, new production facilities under construction, new trim shop, return to motorsport etc etc. Yes, he backtracked on the new Esprit engine/gearbox and decided to build their own, but this this was, I believe, market driven.

Whilst the plans might get scaled back, I sincerely hope DB gets the chance to deliver against them. Behind the marketing fluff there is serious stuff being done by some very experienced guys down in Hethel. I live in hope....

ads_green

838 posts

231 months

Wednesday 11th April 2012
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The issue is that whilst of course a plan takes time, everything that is 'right here, right now' such as the evora, evora s, exige v6, evora gt4, gte etc are all pre master plan. They would have happened or were happening anyway... Without the big expense and legal bun fights.

marshalla

15,902 posts

200 months

Wednesday 11th April 2012
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Hedgerley said:
a new FIA appoved test track
I have never understood why a road car manufacturer needs a test track approved by a motorsports body.

darth_pies

692 posts

216 months

Wednesday 11th April 2012
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Talking to a few mates in the car industry about this (and I believe Lotus are the laughing stock of the global automotive community tonight), everyone seems to have heard on the grapevine what's really happening at Hethel....and if the rumours are true it ain't what this press release/suicide letter says.

Whoever signed off on this ludicrous release either doesn't know what's about to happen to their company or its a last gasp attempt to kick Tony Fernandes in the balls before the whole Bahar project collapses into infamy forever.

I've heard there's been a lot more to this saga than the public have been aware of since day one, so I really can't wait for Joe Saward's inevitable book on the subject "Lots Of Tantrums, Usually Serious" tongue out


Hedgerley

620 posts

267 months

Wednesday 11th April 2012
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marshalla said:
I have never understood why a road car manufacturer needs a test track approved by a motorsports body.
Because Lotus Motorsports are based at Hethel and they develop/build/test both their own and customer cars for entry into a variety of motorsport classes based on road cars. I guess it helps if the test facilities are based on what drivers will experience when they go racing.

WayneB

208 posts

225 months

Thursday 12th April 2012
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Hedgerley said:
He has - he's been flying there weekly since the acquisition closed to convince DRB-Hicom that Lotus is worth keeping and worth Proton's continued investment. He's delivered much of what he said he would in the first two years, in fact more so as he realised the importance of continuing developing/improving the Evora and pushing ahead with the Exige V6. There's a new FIA appoved test track, new garages, new production facilities under construction, new trim shop, return to motorsport etc etc. Yes, he backtracked on the new Esprit engine/gearbox and decided to build their own, but this this was, I believe, market driven.

Whilst the plans might get scaled back, I sincerely hope DB gets the chance to deliver against them. Behind the marketing fluff there is serious stuff being done by some very experienced guys down in Hethel. I live in hope....
Mark, so what has Dany Bahar actually delivered in the past 2 years?

Most (If not all)of the product that Lotus mostly sells (cars) was concieved during MJK's leadership, The Evora (obviously) The Evora IPS , The Competition GT4 Evora, The Exige V6 etc.

MJK was taking Lotus upmarket( he and Colin Chapman started that direction with the Europa Twin cam in the 70's), but in a gradual controlled manner, looking after current Lotus owners whilst bringing new ones into the Lotus family one at a time.

Its important that Lotus has good product to sell, much more important than a flashy CEO office,parties, celebrity hoopla etc. and Bahar blew it straight off the bat by cancelling the MJK Esprit (MSC) project , and instigating his sensatialist scheemes (the FIA Race Circuit, the offices, executive jets, helicopters, parties, expensive concept cars (5), the great car givaways,axeing most of the dealership network, sponsoring an F1 team, renting a mansion and paying 300,000+ quid to renovate it. etc etc.

Alot of the "experienced guys" you talk about in Hethel have either been forced out of Group Lotus or left to join viable car manufacturers, dont you think there lack of faith in Dany Bahar had anything to do with that?

And what of those left behind who need a job to pay their bills, most are very concerned for there futures, morale at Lotus is at an all time low ATM.

How can Bahars current plan possibly be judged a success and on track bearing in mind that Lotus cannot pay to get any parts delivered and are not actually producing or developing any cars ATM?

If his plan is a success and "on track" (as you and some others think), I would hate to see what it would be like If it was failing or had failed.

He needs to go NOW and give someone a shot at the CEO's position who actually knows how to run a car company.

I live in hope for better times for Lotus,hopefully its not too late for the damage to be repaired,

Wayne






Edited by WayneB on Thursday 12th April 16:59

Hedgerley

620 posts

267 months

Thursday 12th April 2012
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Not sure where to start Wayne, that's quite a robust response!

I guess what I am saying is that the 5 year plan put together by DB and his team was fully endorsed by the major shareholder - lets not forget it was they who appointed him in the first place. It was also funded to a large degree; quite an achievement in the current climate. The activity scheduled for the first two years has largely been delivered, including the development of an in-house V8 and new gearbox that wasn't in the original plan. Test mules are being driven around the Norfolk roads as we speak.

Most of the reports from Lotus themselves and several independent observers over the past two years have confirmed that the plan was on track until the recent hiatus and even recent visits by EVO and Autocar talk about the good things going on behind the scenes, despite the recent starvation of funds.

He has also shown he is happy to be proven wrong; backtracking on the bought-in V8 and recognising the importance of the Evora for example. That is listening to and acting on what the market is telling him.

Whilst many argued his plan was overly ambitious (and I would tend to agree)what has been delivered in the first two years is impressive and I listed some. I personally think most of that is what Lotus needed; an extended model range, upgraded test track and facilities, new production capacity, new trim shop, quality improvements, their own V8 engine and so on. If you don't then I'm happy to agree to disagree. I do however agree with you on the marketing fluff - that is way OTT.

The slow down in production, suppliers not being paid, freezing all new development work (although not entirely I understand) - these are a direct result of the acquisition of Proton by DRB-Hicom i.e. nothing to do with DB and outside his control.

Lotus is in a dark place at the moment and I sincerely hope they can pull themselves out of it. As this and other forums clearly show, how they do that is a matter of opinion - as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

ravon

598 posts

281 months

Thursday 12th April 2012
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Hedgerly, it is a bought-in V8 engine, just not a Toyota/Lexus, but an old DTM racing unit revised to become a road car engine, so like most of Bahar's "achievements", he spent Lotus money on it, it wasn't designed by Lotus and it's not made by Lotus.

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Thursday 12th April 2012
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Should be to your liking then ravon.

ravon

598 posts

281 months

Thursday 12th April 2012
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Why would that be ?

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Thursday 12th April 2012
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It's not made by Lotus, or Toyota and it's not 'obselete' (like the metzger flat 6, or Honda K20).

Thanks to people like you going out of your way to put people off Lotus cars and directing them straight to porsche showrooms it will never see the light of day anyway.

Thing is, with Lotus on the verge of extinction which british car brand are you going to try and bring down next? Jaguar? Aston Martin?

ravon

598 posts

281 months

Thursday 12th April 2012
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And it's people like you that authoritatively write incorrect fantasy technical clap trap, that force genuine enthusiasts to continuously monitor and correct your drivel . Found out anything about those unique to Lotus Camary engines yet, or those unbelievably expensive "special" Bilstein dampers that you don't know the transfer price of, but you know they are amazingly expensive, afraid my friend you are full of *****. You constantly tell people what to do, then do something different yourself, I believe you purchased an Aston Martin when you could have purchased an Evora for example. Come and see me on track, I've told where I'll be and when, and we can enjoy a civilised chat about our favorite manufacturers .

Please don't be so completely pathetic trying to lay a guilt trip on me about putting people off buying Evora's, Bahar has done a spectacular job of that on his own, most of us are grown ups, we can make our own informed buying decisions

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Thursday 12th April 2012
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I'll take a bit of rose tinted optimism about the brand that has delivered more driving pleasure to me than any other any day over your relentlessly bleak and mind boggling negativity.

Being 'forced' to correct people on pistonheads is as fruitless a quest as I've yet come across! It would be as pointless as me spending my spare time correcting your spelling. Good luck with your crusade. Mine is simply to get a few more people to consider driving a Lotus before writing them off. My considerable experience of brands that you consider superior suggests that they might be pleasantly surprised. Clearly it's another lost cause but it's well meant.

Let me ask you this, if your beloved german car maker was on it's knees, would you not do what little you could to try and bring to people's attention those things that you consider worth saving?

Edited by The Pits on Friday 13th April 08:41

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

245 months

Thursday 12th April 2012
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WayneB said:
Most (If not all)of the product that Lotus mostly sells (cars) was concieved during MJK's leadership, The Evora (obviously) The Evora IPS , The Competition GT4 Evora, The Exige V6 etc.

MJK was taking Lotus upmarket
It's good to be reminded that Mike Kimberley was the goon who masterminded Evora - the car which has brought the company to its knees.

As for Exige V6 being part of his plans; I haven't heard that before. I thought Exige V6 was just a rapidly cobbled together exercise in the factory to try to resolve the daft 2+2 layout, price and styling of Evora. There was no word of such a car when Bahar announced the company's new model plans and the newly launched Evora was also notable by its absence.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Friday 13th April 2012
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ravon said:
Hedgerly, it is a bought-in V8 engine, just not a Toyota/Lexus, but an old DTM racing unit revised to become a road car engine, so like most of Bahar's "achievements", he spent Lotus money on it, it wasn't designed by Lotus and it's not made by Lotus.
So, unless it's a completely clean sheet design, you're not going to be happy with it? You are a miserable sod!

biggrin

I'm amazed how many decisions that will have been made by people throughout the organisation are being treated as though Evil King Bahar came in and forced the poor weak citizens of Lotus to do his evil bidding.

AllNines

346 posts

181 months

Friday 13th April 2012
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Exige V6 was being developed long before Bahar took over - it was then canned, only to be refound recently.

Hedgerley

620 posts

267 months

Friday 13th April 2012
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Whoever is responsible - and let's just say Lotus - they need to get these things built and delivered!!!

More tweets like this please, rather than Wednesdays nonsense.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1147493&...

At least the test drivers are carrying on with business as usual.

Oilchange

8,396 posts

259 months

Friday 13th April 2012
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The phrase 'you don't know what you've got til it's gone' springs to mind

I wonder whether people would laugh or be on their high horse and say 'I told you so' etc if Lotus were to fold.

God it would be a sad day if this were to happen and the doom mongerers would finally have their way. tts.

Some consolation for them though, they could go off and buy another Porsche. Wonderful.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

245 months

Friday 13th April 2012
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Oilchange said:
they could go off and buy another Porsche. Wonderful.
Regrettably it's Lotus' own attempt to build a 911 rival which has brought the company to its knees. It's not as if a 6-cylinder, rear-engined, 2+2 was targeting any part of the market other than 911 customers. IMO it would have been much better for Lotus to invest the very substantial design and development costs building a car which was recognisably a Lotus. You know, mid-engined 2-seater with near supercar performance, attractively styled and at a competitive price. If the Exige V6 convertible ever makes it into production it will be whole lot closer to what I think customers might buy.