Will Lotus cars make it to 2015?
Discussion
Ozzie Osmond said:
Scuffers said:
the sad part of the story is that Delorean as a company was actually working....
You'll need to provide some evidence to back that one up! Everything I've seen says the whole enterprise was an unmitigated disaster.it's problem was the plug was pulled just as the production line was getting started, dealers in the US had placed significant orders, but as usual, politics pulled the rugg, Delorean was arrested, it all turned to s
t shortly after.Yes, the UK gov lost a lot of money, but it was a drop in the ocean compared to what we then spent on policing NI though the 'troubles' (I am not suggesting that Delorean was the magic solution to the problems of NI, but it was certainly helping but giving them real jobs/pride/purpose)
Scuffers said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
Scuffers said:
the sad part of the story is that Delorean as a company was actually working....
You'll need to provide some evidence to back that one up! Everything I've seen says the whole enterprise was an unmitigated disaster.it's problem was the plug was pulled just as the production line was getting started, dealers in the US had placed significant orders, but as usual, politics pulled the rugg, Delorean was arrested, it all turned to s
t shortly after.Yes, the UK gov lost a lot of money, but it was a drop in the ocean compared to what we then spent on policing NI though the 'troubles' (I am not suggesting that Delorean was the magic solution to the problems of NI, but it was certainly helping but giving them real jobs/pride/purpose)
Ozzie Osmond said:
Dodgey_Rog said:
Hang on, you say 10 mill went missing, if Delorean took 5m, Chapman took 4.5m and then Fred the Shred took 5m, i make that 14.5m?
Apologies for omission of the decimal point from Bushell, about £0.5m. Here you go with some better numbers,"The government agreed to pay Lotus $18m but this money went to a Geneva-based, Panama-registered company which had been set up to avoid tax. This money disappeared without trace. DeLorean is alleged to have taken around 50%, while Chapman took 45% and Bushell just 5%."
Head of proton supposedly in talk in China discussing the sale of Lotus.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834...
harryowl said:
Head of proton supposedly in talk in China discussing the sale of Lotus.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834...
"Lotus Group not for sale, say owners"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17829069
Captain Muppet said:
The text of the article ia a more accurate quote 'The owners of Lotus have said they have not decided to sell the Norfolk based sports car maker', which doesn't mean 'decided not to sell'.
RYH64E said:
Captain Muppet said:
The text of the article ia a more accurate quote 'The owners of Lotus have said they have not decided to sell the Norfolk based sports car maker', which doesn't mean 'decided not to sell'.Just as Top gear are comparing the new Exige to a 911....
It seems to me this is going to end up as an all or nothing deal. Either Lotus are funded to produce a competitive range of cars to compete with other mainstream manufacturers, or they're broken into tiny pieces and there will be no more Lotus cars.
Has anyone read this transcript of Houses of Parliament Debate on Lotus?
(sorry if its old news)
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/in-the-h...
I smell another Rover.
(sorry if its old news)
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/in-the-h...
I smell another Rover.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good Parliamentary debate. As posted on other threads Richard Bacon is spouting nonsense. Both Group Lotus and DRB-Hicom have stated repeatedly that no decision has been made, that KPMG were appointed way before the DRB takeover of Proton for other reasons and have in fact ceased and desisted during this due diligence period, that the JV established in January is now dormant as Lotus and Youngman no longer wish to pursue the relationship, that Lotus was profitable in 2008 only because Proton wrote off £70m of debt, that the funding now going into Lotus will bring production up to full capacity by next week and allow the new V8 and Esprit development to continue. I could go on. And on. But won't. My keyboard can't take much more of this angry bashing.
The only sense seems to be coming from Mark Prisk at BIS. Why? Because he has spoken to the parties and has got his facts right.
The only sense seems to be coming from Mark Prisk at BIS. Why? Because he has spoken to the parties and has got his facts right.
Well done, good post
Hedgerley said:
Never let the facts get in the way of a good Parliamentary debate. As posted on other threads Richard Bacon is spouting nonsense. Both Group Lotus and DRB-Hicom have stated repeatedly that no decision has been made, that KPMG were appointed way before the DRB takeover of Proton for other reasons and have in fact ceased and desisted during this due diligence period, that the JV established in January is now dormant as Lotus and Youngman no longer wish to pursue the relationship, that Lotus was profitable in 2008 only because Proton wrote off £70m of debt, that the funding now going into Lotus will bring production up to full capacity by next week and allow the new V8 and Esprit development to continue. I could go on. And on. But won't. My keyboard can't take much more of this angry bashing.
The only sense seems to be coming from Mark Prisk at BIS. Why? Because he has spoken to the parties and has got his facts right.
The only sense seems to be coming from Mark Prisk at BIS. Why? Because he has spoken to the parties and has got his facts right.
xxdaix said:
Has anyone read this transcript of Houses of Parliament Debate on Lotus?
(sorry if its old news)
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/in-the-h...
I smell another Rover.
I smell Joe 'Caterham' Saward stirring, and a bunch of MPs who have slightly less information than we've already read in this and other threads.(sorry if its old news)
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/in-the-h...
I smell another Rover.
Got to be clear: I've no idea what the outcome is going to be. However, I have a pretty good idea that there are a number of parties who are not informed, or who have an active desire to see Lotus crippled. There's a bandwagon here..
The crown jewels in any deal to be made are not visible right now. The Esprit, it's engine, the Evora GTE and other upcoming projects are going to determine the future of Lotus.
The bandwagon appears to be the KPMG red herring - that's what Bacon is fixated on and his conclusion that the Chinese will buy Lotus and ship it off to China (although look how Geely have handled Volvo).
Once again, DRB have had to issue denials and this time in relation to the completion of the acquisition with the Malaysian Stock Exchange listening, confirming my comment above, that KPMG have been stood down -
http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option...
I take greater stock (forgive the pun) in these statements rather than Joe Saward's re-cycling of rumour and heresay.
Once again, DRB have had to issue denials and this time in relation to the completion of the acquisition with the Malaysian Stock Exchange listening, confirming my comment above, that KPMG have been stood down -
http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option...
I take greater stock (forgive the pun) in these statements rather than Joe Saward's re-cycling of rumour and heresay.
RYH64E said:
Captain Muppet said:
The text of the article ia a more accurate quote 'The owners of Lotus have said they have not decided to sell the Norfolk based sports car maker', which doesn't mean 'decided not to sell'.Just as Top gear are comparing the new Exige to a 911....
It seems to me this is going to end up as an all or nothing deal. Either Lotus are funded to produce a competitive range of cars to compete with other mainstream manufacturers, or they're broken into tiny pieces and there will be no more Lotus cars.
RYH64E said:
The text of the article ia a more accurate quote 'The owners of Lotus have said they have not decided to sell the Norfolk based sports car maker', which doesn't mean 'decided not to sell'.
In a new interview with BBC's Top Gear, Bahar says "Sale could be an oppertunity", which says to me that they are still looking for a new owner for Lotus.If they are not, I guess Bahar is struggling somewhat with the english language.:lol:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/dany-bahar-inte...
Dont agree with his view that you either love or hate Lotus, I love Lotus, but hate what he has done to the image of the company.
WayneB said:
RYH64E said:
The text of the article ia a more accurate quote 'The owners of Lotus have said they have not decided to sell the Norfolk based sports car maker', which doesn't mean 'decided not to sell'.
In a new interview with BBC's Top Gear, Bahar says "Sale still could be an oppertunity", which says to me that they are still looking for a new owner for Lotus.If they are not, I guess Bahar is struggling somewhat with the english language.:lol:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/dany-bahar-inte...
Dont agree with his view that you either love or hate Lotus, I love Lotus, but hate what he has done to the image of the company.
WayneB said:
Dont agree with his view that you either love or hate Lotus, I love Lotus, but hate what he has done to the image of the company.
It seems to me that the majority of people who're worried about Lotus' image are the old guard of so called loyal fans who cannot cope with change. Read the reviews of the new cars in the press at the moment and there is nothing but praise, and enthusiasm for what's coming next. No-one's pretending it's been a faultless transition, but at least there's some candour and it appears that they're learning from their mistakes.In your case, you've made it pretty clear it's a personal dislike of Bahar. Fair enough, but I've never met the man and don't actually care if he eats hamsters and urinates on old ladies if he can turn the company around.
Tuna said:
It seems to me that the majority of people who're worried about Lotus' image are the old guard of so called loyal fans who cannot cope with change. Read the reviews of the new cars in the press at the moment and there is nothing but praise, and enthusiasm for what's coming next. No-one's pretending it's been a faultless transition, but at least there's some candour and it appears that they're learning from their mistakes.
what new cars?they have yet to make a single one of the 'new' Danny-boy cars, all we have at the moment is the cars that were already in plan and being made before he turned up.
Yes, we have a problem with Danny0boy, no it's nothing to do with change, it's mostly to do with the bulls
t that has become Lotus public talk.Look at the farces of their push into Motorsport, F1 - no actual involvement aside providing a badge, Indy car, well, that went well, the list goes on.
"Sale could be an opportunity" - standard protocol chitchat for needs (yet another) recap and or partner that has genuine synergies as opposed to a holding co with no synergies but a pure return on capital requirement.
hardly rocket science and i think most of you (even the die hard blinkered beards that seem to think the future is a lightweight dated pedal powered toy of a product with the co downsized into a double garage alla tvr) would probably agree.
scuffham, quick question as i'm not up on this but wasn't the move into F1 something for nothing, i.e the overall relative cost the co sweet fa ?
btw - if interested lotus silerstone have the exige v6 to test 1 -2 june.
hardly rocket science and i think most of you (even the die hard blinkered beards that seem to think the future is a lightweight dated pedal powered toy of a product with the co downsized into a double garage alla tvr) would probably agree.
scuffham, quick question as i'm not up on this but wasn't the move into F1 something for nothing, i.e the overall relative cost the co sweet fa ?
btw - if interested lotus silerstone have the exige v6 to test 1 -2 june.
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