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bobo
1,056 posts
147 months
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i await the usual negative comments with great anticipation .... lol ... yet another great write up for the exige in TG ...
haters, wheres your quantum ?
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Tuna
4,512 posts
153 months
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Hedgerley said: I also picked up an update on new Esprit - lower, wider, more power and more aggressive looking than the concept. And its been designed as a convertible from the outset. Roll on 2014!!!
The Sunday Times also revealed the three senior executives who followed DB out of the door - the Head of Finance, the Head of Human resources and the Head of Legal (I guess they were all considered complicit in the DB shenanegins). That's got to be a significant saving - but who is doing those jobs now? The three executives were listed by the Eastern Daily Press a couple of weeks back. Certainly it looks like these will have been the individuals who would have supported Bahar's executive lifestyle. If it's true about the Esprit I'm glad that they might appear to be listening to comments that we've heard on here, that the concept was a little too cautious. Certainly it didn't seem to distinguish itself from the Mclaren much. That said, this'll be the third redesign (at least) of the new car. Bring it on and let's see how it does.
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WayneB
125 posts
95 months
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Hedgerley said: complicit in the DB shenanegins
Is that what you are calling the 5 year plan now Mark? I find it quite interesting how former rabid supporters of all things Bahar are adjusting to Lotus under DRB ownership. Seems that Lotus is sadly still in 207 million pounds debt, and judging by what the Belgians offered (1 pound)the company is worth rather less than it was 3 years ago. Disturbed by the news VW are interested in buying Proton again, they would definately merge Lotus Engineering with Porsche Engineering to gain their knowledge and elliminate a major competitor. As for Lotus Porsches comment I read, what planet are you from? As for the New, Newer or Newest Esprit , had to wait too long (9 years) and have lost interest (sorry), by 2014 it will have been 11 years since one rolled out of Hethel, will the new customers even notice it then (or care)?
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Tuna
4,512 posts
153 months
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WayneB said: Is that what you are calling the 5 year plan now Mark?
I find it quite interesting how former rabid supporters of all things Bahar are adjusting to Lotus under DRB ownership. You really are a tireless troll, Wayne WayneB said: Seems that Lotus is sadly still in 207 million pounds debt, and judging by what the Belgians offered (1 pound)the company is worth rather less than it was 3 years ago.
Disturbed by the news VW are interested in buying Proton again, they would definately merge Lotus Engineering with Porsche Engineering to gain their knowledge and elliminate a major competitor.
As for Lotus Porsches comment I read, what planet are you from?
As for the New, Newer or Newest Esprit , had to wait too long (9 years) and have lost interest (sorry), by 2014 it will have been 11 years since one rolled out of Hethel, will the new customers even notice it then (or care)? Hate to break it to you, but the new customers for the Esprit are largely a different bunch from the old customers. So far, DRB-Hicom appear to be as committed to Lotus' turnround as Proton were - in interview they are talking about returning Lotus to good health. Certainly it might be a candidate for a sell-off then, or (if they got the right offer) now, but frankly neither you nor anyone else saw the Proton sale coming, so why make such a big deal about another one? If they are to deliver, Lotus need stability. Just to remind you, Bahar was sacked over expenses, not over the lending plan that their owner, Proton committed to. However you might try to spin it, we've known for at least three years that Lotus were going to be in a lot of debt by the time new models came out of the factory. DRB-Hicom have approved that debt and signed agreements to see it continue.
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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WayneB said: Disturbed by the news VW are interested in buying Proton again, they would definately merge Lotus Engineering with Porsche Engineering to gain their knowledge and elliminate a major competitor. I'm sorry but I don't think Porsche will see Lotus as a major competitor.
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bobo
1,056 posts
147 months
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not yet. wait for pricing on the esprit. bertie said: I'm sorry but I don't think Porsche will see Lotus as a major competitor.
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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bobo said: not yet. wait for pricing on the esprit. bertie said: I'm sorry but I don't think Porsche will see Lotus as a major competitor. I can't see that making a differance, if the Espit comes out at £50k with 3 million BHP, I still don't think Porsche will be loosing any sleep.
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WayneB
125 posts
95 months
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Tuna said: WayneB said: Is that what you are calling the 5 year plan now Mark?
I find it quite interesting how former rabid supporters of all things Bahar are adjusting to Lotus under DRB ownership. You really are a tireless troll, Wayne WayneB said: Seems that Lotus is sadly still in 207 million pounds debt, and judging by what the Belgians offered (1 pound)the company is worth rather less than it was 3 years ago.
Disturbed by the news VW are interested in buying Proton again, they would definately merge Lotus Engineering with Porsche Engineering to gain their knowledge and elliminate a major competitor.
As for Lotus Porsches comment I read, what planet are you from?
As for the New, Newer or Newest Esprit , had to wait too long (9 years) and have lost interest (sorry), by 2014 it will have been 11 years since one rolled out of Hethel, will the new customers even notice it then (or care)? Hate to break it to you, but the new customers for the Esprit are largely a different bunch from the old customers. So far, DRB-Hicom appear to be as committed to Lotus' turnround as Proton were - in interview they are talking about returning Lotus to good health. Certainly it might be a candidate for a sell-off then, or (if they got the right offer) now, but frankly neither you nor anyone else saw the Proton sale coming, so why make such a big deal about another one? If they are to deliver, Lotus need stability. Just to remind you, Bahar was sacked over expenses, not over the lending plan that their owner, Proton committed to. However you might try to spin it, we've known for at least three years that Lotus were going to be in a lot of debt by the time new models came out of the factory. DRB-Hicom have approved that debt and signed agreements to see it continue. I think with that I should leave you to wallow in your fantasy delusions Mate. Rah Rah Dany, Rah Rah DRB, Rah Rah whoever comes next. Wayne B (current Lotus Owner and tireless troll) 
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Hedgerley
505 posts
137 months
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WayneB said: Is that what you are calling the 5 year plan now Mark?
I find it quite interesting how former rabid supporters of all things Bahar are adjusting to Lotus under DRB ownership.
I did promise myself I wouldn't get into any more debate with you Wayne (I thought we had agreed to disagree), but that is a direct accusation I can't let slide. I was simply referring to whatever the reasons behind DB's dismissal are/were. I have never claimed to be a 'rabid supporter' of DB but I still maintain that, whilst perhaps overly ambitious, his plans and the progress he made, including the funding he secured, were commendable. DRB, having decided to keep hold of Lotus, at least in the medium term, are certainly making all the right noises. I fully expect them to scale back DB's plans but they aren't dismissing most of what has been achieved under his tenure. Certainly there have been no threats of pulling out of motorsport and the London store has opened to good reviews. And of course we have seen a couple of outstanding cars come out. Yes, there is no more 'bling' marketing and C list celebs seem to have been quietly ditched - I have agreed with you that that was plain daft. So, lets see what comes out in the coming weeks and reserve our judgement. As for your Lotus/Porsche observation, what are you on about? Reviews and testers much better qualified than me (and I assume you) rate the new Exige S very highly, one of them saying it is a better proposition than a 911 GT3, another rating ahead of the Carrera S. You had better ask those guys what planet they are on, not me.
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bobo
1,056 posts
147 months
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Rubbish .... I have owned 7 911s at the risk of sounding crass... give me something that's styled by coco that's 90pc as good and I will take it. So will the mkt bertie said: I can't see that making a differance, if the Espit comes out at £50k with 3 million BHP, I still don't think Porsche will be loosing any sleep.
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Scuffers
10,385 posts
143 months
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Tuna said: Just to remind you, Bahar was sacked over expenses, not over the lending plan that their owner, Proton committed to. However you might try to spin it, we've known for at least three years that Lotus were going to be in a lot of debt by the time new models came out of the factory. DRB-Hicom have approved that debt and signed agreements to see it continue. I am sure that was the official reason, but I suspect that was not the primary motivation for canning him.
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Tuna
4,512 posts
153 months
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WayneB said: I think with that I should leave you to wallow in your fantasy delusions Mate. Don't get 'em in a bunch, grandad. As far as I can tell I've been pretty consistent in my stance. 1. The market has moved on since the days of the Esprit, and what the old guard want won't drive a successful business 2. Lotus need new product, and they need a range - they cannot risk it all on a single car. 3. They need (desperately) some proper investment to get there 4. They need stability in order to deliver. 5. I don't care who oversees that, be it MJK, Bahar or anyone else. It's about what is done, not who is in charge. I don't believe for a moment that a single figurehead is single handedly making the big decisions. This is a large company owned by a huge corporation, not your sweet shop. I've avoided making criticism and accusations against anyone in Lotus - frankly they don't need it. No they're not perfect, but I'd much rather concentrate on the positive than rake over issues. If you've not got anything good to say...
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Tuna
4,512 posts
153 months
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Scuffers said: I am sure that was the official reason, but I suspect that was not the primary motivation for canning him. You read the analysis as well I guess. It makes sense given the timing, and it's interesting that DRB have been swift to reposition the outstanding loans. The bigger question is what they do over the next 18 months.
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ravon
273 posts
151 months
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Hedgerley, 40 litres of fuel in a 3.5 litre supercharged car, a really fantastic track or touring proposition, I think not ! Was at Silverstone yesterday with my Caterham CSR, and heading to the fuel pumps after every session , I can assure you is a complete pain, wonder why those dim Germans put such big tanks in their cars ?
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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bobo said: Rubbish .... I have owned 7 911s at the risk of sounding crass... give me something that's styled by coco that's 90pc as good and I will take it. So will the mkt bertie said: I can't see that making a differance, if the Espit comes out at £50k with 3 million BHP, I still don't think Porsche will be loosing any sleep. So will a few hundred in the market, the rest will carry on buying 911s. I'm with you, I would, but most won't, IMHO.
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bobo
1,056 posts
147 months
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bertie i see where you are coming from but lotus have been behind par on styling for some time now, frankly russell carr has given most in the market tunnel vision. i'm long an exige v6 and will admit although a vast improvement proportionally (only) its far from beautiful. proportions and performance carry great weight for me though, you understand? the exige v6 in reality being a cheap .. ahem .. sorry .... cost effective shared component styling job at best not the freedom of a new design. my point is, lotus has the mandate (perhaps shared by only ferrari and lambo) to be creative, aggressive and elegant as part of its styling process. they have failed to capitalise on that licence really since giugiaros esprit (debatably s1 elise) and that licence IS worth a fortune. porsche do not have that licence. although almost perfect (i have always maintained the 911 to be the best £for£ sportscar), their products will always look dull and have zero flair. frankly the mkt has been beaten into submission with below par styling. if cocos esprit is 'right' i wouldn't underestimate the inherent value of good styling and how it can change perceptions almost immediately. bertie said: So will a few hundred in the market, the rest will carry on buying 911s.
I'm with you, I would, but most won't, IMHO.
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bobo
1,056 posts
147 months
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tuna ... your no 5 should have been your no 1 .. otherwise A+ Tuna said: Don't get 'em in a bunch, grandad.
As far as I can tell I've been pretty consistent in my stance.
1. The market has moved on since the days of the Esprit, and what the old guard want won't drive a successful business
2. Lotus need new product, and they need a range - they cannot risk it all on a single car.
3. They need (desperately) some proper investment to get there
4. They need stability in order to deliver.
5. I don't care who oversees that, be it MJK, Bahar or anyone else. It's about what is done, not who is in charge. I don't believe for a moment that a single figurehead is single handedly making the big decisions. This is a large company owned by a huge corporation, not your sweet shop.
I've avoided making criticism and accusations against anyone in Lotus - frankly they don't need it. No they're not perfect, but I'd much rather concentrate on the positive than rake over issues. If you've not got anything good to say...
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V8 FOU
719 posts
16 months
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Yes. But.
A company like Lotus needs a passionate CEO / figurehead etc. Someone who can be there to front the company to the media / customers / enthusiasts etc. Most sucessfull companies have a charismatic if not controversial head. Chapman was, Branson is, Peter Morgan is (to some extent), the Davidson family (Harley Davidson Motor co), March certainly is, etc etc...
Whether they are loved or hated a good head person is invaluable. Bahar wasn't as he didn't have the passion for Lotus - just the passion for power and money...
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dkturbo
Original Poster
85 posts
30 months
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Auto Express say VW might buy Lotus. Nitro Addiction says Renault may buy Lotus, which makes sense for the following reasons, full article here: http://nitroaddiction.co.uk/renault-to-buy-lotus/1. Renault is already heavily linked to Lotus through their Formula 1 activities. The Lotus sponsored F1 team is still part owned by Renault and has Renault engines powering the cars. Through this there are many co-sponsored events. It is most evident at motor shows whereby both Renault and Lotus stands will have a Lotus F1 car on display. 2. Renault have previously made an attempt at buying a prestigious brand, in 2007 they studied buying Jaguar Land Rover from Ford. Renault currently have the Dacia and Samsung brands but both are at the low end of the market. 3. Renault have no presence in the lucrative sports car market, even though they supply four Formula 1 teams with engines. From a marketing point of view this does not transcend in to showroom sales, a sports car would bridge this gap. Currently Renault are trying to achieve this with the potential resurrection of the Alpine brand. The Lotus name would having more presence and a higher change of sales success. DK Turbo
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otolith
19,343 posts
73 months
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The Lotus F1 team has nothing in common with Lotus cars, though - not even sponsorship.
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