Bahar Suspended
Discussion
I have been reading the Skiddmark stuff on Lotus for a while now, alot of it takes on the form of pro-Bahar Lotus rah rah press release propoganda.
Unfortunately, alot of the "s*it" that you charmingly call it on other sites has turned out unfortunately to be actually true.
They are just relaying on information that they have gathered , some from sources within Group Lotus, some from outside entities connected with the company, of course its easy to tar them as being "uninformed gossip spreaders" or in Joe Sawards case "jealous"(I had to laugh at that one)
IMO all of the manufactured spin by certain journalists in Bahars favour has done absolutely no good for the company, what the whole thing requires now is a good dose of HONEST common sense, which I feel might be better for Group Lotus in the long run.
I do feel very bad for the current employees at Lotus in Norfolk, I myself have been subjected to similar times in the motor industry and have found myself out of a job through no fault of my own, but I dont think people painting a rosy picture of the whole Lotus thing is going to do them any good longterm.
The new perminent CEO of Group Lotus (when he/she emerges) has a massive job on his hands, he has to restore confidence in the brand ,how he/she will do it remains to be seen.
I have faith that the company will survive, after all it did survive the death of its founder and the resulting financial scandal didnt it(which I seem to remember was ALOT worse thanwhat is going on presently)?
Unfortunately, alot of the "s*it" that you charmingly call it on other sites has turned out unfortunately to be actually true.
They are just relaying on information that they have gathered , some from sources within Group Lotus, some from outside entities connected with the company, of course its easy to tar them as being "uninformed gossip spreaders" or in Joe Sawards case "jealous"(I had to laugh at that one)
IMO all of the manufactured spin by certain journalists in Bahars favour has done absolutely no good for the company, what the whole thing requires now is a good dose of HONEST common sense, which I feel might be better for Group Lotus in the long run.
I do feel very bad for the current employees at Lotus in Norfolk, I myself have been subjected to similar times in the motor industry and have found myself out of a job through no fault of my own, but I dont think people painting a rosy picture of the whole Lotus thing is going to do them any good longterm.
The new perminent CEO of Group Lotus (when he/she emerges) has a massive job on his hands, he has to restore confidence in the brand ,how he/she will do it remains to be seen.
I have faith that the company will survive, after all it did survive the death of its founder and the resulting financial scandal didnt it(which I seem to remember was ALOT worse thanwhat is going on presently)?
Edited by WayneB on Thursday 31st May 15:02
WayneB said:
I have been reading the Skiddmark stuff on Lotus for a while now, alot of it takes on the form of pro-Bahar Lotus rah rah press release propoganda.
Unfortunately, alot of the "s*it" that you charmingly call it on other sites has turned out unfortunately to be actually true.
They are just relaying on information that they have gathered , some from sources within Group Lotus, some from outside entities connected with the company, of course its easy to tar them as being "unimformed gossip spreaders" or in Joe Sawards case "jealous"(I had to laugh at that one)
IMO all of the manufactured spin by certain journalists in Bahars favour has done absolutely no good for the company, what the whole thing requires now is a good dose of HONEST common sense, which I feel might be better for Group Lotus in the long run.
I do feel very bad for the current employees at Lotus in Norfolk, I myself have been subjected to similar times in the motor industry and have found myself out of a job through no fault of my own, but I dont think people painting a rosy picture of the whole Lotus thing is going to do them any good longterm.
The new perminent CEO of Group Lotus (when he/she emerges) has a massive job on his hands, he has to restore confidence in the brand ,how he/she will do it remains to be seen.
I have faith that the company will survive, after all it did survive the death of its founder and the resulting financial scandal didnt it(which I seem to remember was ALOT worse thanwhat is going on presently)?
well said.Unfortunately, alot of the "s*it" that you charmingly call it on other sites has turned out unfortunately to be actually true.
They are just relaying on information that they have gathered , some from sources within Group Lotus, some from outside entities connected with the company, of course its easy to tar them as being "unimformed gossip spreaders" or in Joe Sawards case "jealous"(I had to laugh at that one)
IMO all of the manufactured spin by certain journalists in Bahars favour has done absolutely no good for the company, what the whole thing requires now is a good dose of HONEST common sense, which I feel might be better for Group Lotus in the long run.
I do feel very bad for the current employees at Lotus in Norfolk, I myself have been subjected to similar times in the motor industry and have found myself out of a job through no fault of my own, but I dont think people painting a rosy picture of the whole Lotus thing is going to do them any good longterm.
The new perminent CEO of Group Lotus (when he/she emerges) has a massive job on his hands, he has to restore confidence in the brand ,how he/she will do it remains to be seen.
I have faith that the company will survive, after all it did survive the death of its founder and the resulting financial scandal didnt it(which I seem to remember was ALOT worse thanwhat is going on presently)?
As somebody that continually get's it in the neck for being anti-Lotus, I know what you mean.
I 100% want them to survive, and I really do feel for the majority of the workforce that have been yet again put in a terrible position.
This however, dos not mean I blindly support the cynical/cavalier management over the years that have put Lotus in the position it's in now.
Yes, Lotus needs a strong leader to push though a new vision, the issue is that said vision so far has been, for want of a better word, pants.
Many people did not like the way Romano Artioli ran the place, some of which may be justified, but let's not forget he was the one that pushed the Elise though development (despite some 'management') and into production, the single biggest selling car in their entire history.
C1RVY said:
My dealer is quoting September for delivery of demo cars!!
Any variations on that?
The dealers are doing demo days over the coming weeks:Any variations on that?
http://www.seloc.org/2012/05/exige-s-demo-days/
Scuffers said:
well said.
As somebody that continually get's it in the neck for being anti-Lotus, I know what you mean.
I 100% want them to survive, and I really do feel for the majority of the workforce that have been yet again put in a terrible position.
This however, dos not mean I blindly support the cynical/cavalier management over the years that have put Lotus in the position it's in now.
Yes, Lotus needs a strong leader to push though a new vision, the issue is that said vision so far has been, for want of a better word, pants.
Many people did not like the way Romano Artioli ran the place, some of which may be justified, but let's not forget he was the one that pushed the Elise though development (despite some 'management') and into production, the single biggest selling car in their entire history.
Yes I have found Lotus enthusiasts to be an odd lot on the whole, but to be honest they are really no different to any group that is passionate about a particular brand of automobile (or Football/Hockey/sports team)As somebody that continually get's it in the neck for being anti-Lotus, I know what you mean.
I 100% want them to survive, and I really do feel for the majority of the workforce that have been yet again put in a terrible position.
This however, dos not mean I blindly support the cynical/cavalier management over the years that have put Lotus in the position it's in now.
Yes, Lotus needs a strong leader to push though a new vision, the issue is that said vision so far has been, for want of a better word, pants.
Many people did not like the way Romano Artioli ran the place, some of which may be justified, but let's not forget he was the one that pushed the Elise though development (despite some 'management') and into production, the single biggest selling car in their entire history.
You have the Elise/Exige guys, the Esprit lot (divided into Giugiaro/Stevens/V8's)the ones that think Lotus ended with the Europa, the ones that hate the old Lotus and live for the new Lotus and vice versa.
Old guys who wouldnt be seen dead in an Evora and young guys who havent a clue what a type 7 or type 11 is and dont care.
To most Its definately all about tribalism, lining yourself up with a particular faction you feel secure/safe with,strenth in numbers.
There are so many factions within the Lotus enthusiast group its inevitable that dissagreements about the way the company is run and what kind of product they should build will result.
To draw a parallel, Bahar seems to have particulary bought out a kind of political campaign that has generated similar types of comments and critisms from enthusiasts that a British Prime minister would from the populace If he carried on in a similar fashion.
Artioli bought to Lotus alot of work and of course money,(they engineered the Bugatti EB110), bankrolled the Elise as you stated and gave the company a shot in the arm, unfortunately the following Proton years were very lackluster (under CEO Kim Ogarrd Nielsen)and untill MJK came back in 2006 I personally had pretty much given up on the company.
You mean, like, all Elise drivers are computer programmers?
Well, I for one, like most things Lotus.
I have the V8 Esprit and a Europa TC, plus I am negotiating on and early Elan. I will go and give an Exige V6 a go soon.
But, I do see where you are coming from. Lotus is like all iconic brands. Divides opinnion.
Well, I for one, like most things Lotus.
I have the V8 Esprit and a Europa TC, plus I am negotiating on and early Elan. I will go and give an Exige V6 a go soon.
But, I do see where you are coming from. Lotus is like all iconic brands. Divides opinnion.
Article from "This Is Money UK" on Bahars expense account spending.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article...
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article...
worth remembering this press release some 6 weeks ago:
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story....
Take a little look at what we found online. Don't you think it's funny? We do. We had a good old giggle. After all, we love a bit of self irony, just as well really. Although it's funny, this one's not accurate but then again, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? The inconvenient truth is - surprise, surprise - we have never said that there are no problems at Lotus.
So whilst lots of people obviously feel the need to comment on Lotus' current situation in the absence of proper facts or evidence, we can't ignore these particular mistruths any longer even if we would like to, so we have decided to turn a negative into a positive and use this hilarious piece of 'art' to set the record straight regarding the status quo at Group Lotus and try to return a little stability to a fast changing situation.
False rumour #1: Dany Bahar is no longer CEO of Group Lotus.
Fact: Rubbish - Dany Bahar still is.
False rumour #2: Dato' Sri Syed is no longer Managing Director of Proton.
Fact: Again rubbish. He still is.
You can thank good old Tony Fernandes for these two. Don't take everything he tweets too seriously perhaps he's still frustrated about owning Caterham instead of Lotus and the fact that he fights HRT and Marussia instead of Mercedes and Ferrari in F1.
And whilst we're on the subject of jokes - do you know the latest F1 joke? Mike Gascoyne, Caterham Group's Chief Technical Officer, has gone missing. Why? He's looking for the 30 to 40 points he predicted for the last F1 season. Funny.
Speaking of F1: It seems that one special so called 'independent' source is at the root of the lion's share of damaging rumours and misleading stories. The delightful Joe Saward which leads us nicely to....
False rumour #3: Joe Saward is JUST an independent journalist.
Fact: He is an active Director for the Caterham Group.
And unlike some, we don't want to get too personal, so we'll leave it to you to judge how 'independent' his stories about Lotus are.
False rumour #4: Group Lotus is no longer involved in F1.
Fact: Lotus F1 Team and Group Lotus have reshaped their commercial relationship earlier this year.
The new governance agreement signifies the continued commitment of Group Lotus to the team and the sport.
Group Lotus' branding and marketing rights and subsequent activities remain unaffected by the new agreement until at least 2017. Alongside continued branding and title partnership status, Group Lotus is also the exclusive master licensee for all Lotus F1 Team merchandise.
The new agreement was reached following Group Lotus owners Proton providing team owners Genii with a £30m loan which is repayable within three years. In order to secure the loan Genii used 100% of the F1 team's assets as collateral meaning that under the conditions of the loan agreement Proton have been given full title guarantee to all plant, machinery, show cars, computers, office and the Lotus F1 Team headquarters.
In addition Proton retains the rights to purchase 10% of the F1 team. Another 10% share option will be activated if the team default on their loan obligations with Proton.
Again we leave it to your judgement how 'bad' Lotus' current situation in F1 is. And speaking of bad situations.....
False rumour #5: Group Lotus is going into administration.
Fact: Rubbish. The takeover of our parent company Proton by DRB-HICOM couldn't have come at a worse time, but up until that point Proton was (and still remains) fully committed to our five year business plan to create jobs and to expand the factory and business. With the takeover process the funding has been restricted and DRB-HICOM is taking time to understand what to do with the business. DRB-HICOM is currently in the middle of due diligence of Group Lotus and there have been and continue to be positive discussions between Group Lotus senior management and senior management at DRB-HICOM both here in Hethel and in Malaysia. At no point has DRB-HICOM indicated to Group Lotus that it intends to put the company into administration. The over-active rumour mill is seriously damaging our business reputation, image and credibility but it is what it is.
The simple fact is, and we haven't denied this - Lotus is going through a very difficult phase at the moment but we are showing true fighting spirit every day in trying to keep this vision alive. This is also a fact no matter what people outside of Lotus may say or tweet or blog.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story....
Take a little look at what we found online. Don't you think it's funny? We do. We had a good old giggle. After all, we love a bit of self irony, just as well really. Although it's funny, this one's not accurate but then again, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? The inconvenient truth is - surprise, surprise - we have never said that there are no problems at Lotus.
So whilst lots of people obviously feel the need to comment on Lotus' current situation in the absence of proper facts or evidence, we can't ignore these particular mistruths any longer even if we would like to, so we have decided to turn a negative into a positive and use this hilarious piece of 'art' to set the record straight regarding the status quo at Group Lotus and try to return a little stability to a fast changing situation.
False rumour #1: Dany Bahar is no longer CEO of Group Lotus.
Fact: Rubbish - Dany Bahar still is.
False rumour #2: Dato' Sri Syed is no longer Managing Director of Proton.
Fact: Again rubbish. He still is.
You can thank good old Tony Fernandes for these two. Don't take everything he tweets too seriously perhaps he's still frustrated about owning Caterham instead of Lotus and the fact that he fights HRT and Marussia instead of Mercedes and Ferrari in F1.
And whilst we're on the subject of jokes - do you know the latest F1 joke? Mike Gascoyne, Caterham Group's Chief Technical Officer, has gone missing. Why? He's looking for the 30 to 40 points he predicted for the last F1 season. Funny.
Speaking of F1: It seems that one special so called 'independent' source is at the root of the lion's share of damaging rumours and misleading stories. The delightful Joe Saward which leads us nicely to....
False rumour #3: Joe Saward is JUST an independent journalist.
Fact: He is an active Director for the Caterham Group.
And unlike some, we don't want to get too personal, so we'll leave it to you to judge how 'independent' his stories about Lotus are.
False rumour #4: Group Lotus is no longer involved in F1.
Fact: Lotus F1 Team and Group Lotus have reshaped their commercial relationship earlier this year.
The new governance agreement signifies the continued commitment of Group Lotus to the team and the sport.
Group Lotus' branding and marketing rights and subsequent activities remain unaffected by the new agreement until at least 2017. Alongside continued branding and title partnership status, Group Lotus is also the exclusive master licensee for all Lotus F1 Team merchandise.
The new agreement was reached following Group Lotus owners Proton providing team owners Genii with a £30m loan which is repayable within three years. In order to secure the loan Genii used 100% of the F1 team's assets as collateral meaning that under the conditions of the loan agreement Proton have been given full title guarantee to all plant, machinery, show cars, computers, office and the Lotus F1 Team headquarters.
In addition Proton retains the rights to purchase 10% of the F1 team. Another 10% share option will be activated if the team default on their loan obligations with Proton.
Again we leave it to your judgement how 'bad' Lotus' current situation in F1 is. And speaking of bad situations.....
False rumour #5: Group Lotus is going into administration.
Fact: Rubbish. The takeover of our parent company Proton by DRB-HICOM couldn't have come at a worse time, but up until that point Proton was (and still remains) fully committed to our five year business plan to create jobs and to expand the factory and business. With the takeover process the funding has been restricted and DRB-HICOM is taking time to understand what to do with the business. DRB-HICOM is currently in the middle of due diligence of Group Lotus and there have been and continue to be positive discussions between Group Lotus senior management and senior management at DRB-HICOM both here in Hethel and in Malaysia. At no point has DRB-HICOM indicated to Group Lotus that it intends to put the company into administration. The over-active rumour mill is seriously damaging our business reputation, image and credibility but it is what it is.
The simple fact is, and we haven't denied this - Lotus is going through a very difficult phase at the moment but we are showing true fighting spirit every day in trying to keep this vision alive. This is also a fact no matter what people outside of Lotus may say or tweet or blog.
Edited by Scuffers on Sunday 3rd June 12:23
It's perhaps too easy to conflate dislike of Bahar with dislike of the plans to turn Lotus around. The worst outcome seems to me that things are going to be scaled back, the Espirit will be further delayed and likely as not sanitized in the name of 'cautious good business' and Lotus will limp along trying to survive on the fortunes of a handful of cars.
what about all of DBs mates ?
if they get sacked we are back at say 2006 levels of aspiration with multiples of debt... yessirrrieee this sacking sounds very positive indeed
i always maintained the management were stupid but this takes things to whole new levels considering the timing lol
at the v least the law of probability suggests the next lot must be a bunch of Einsteins at this rate.
if they get sacked we are back at say 2006 levels of aspiration with multiples of debt... yessirrrieee this sacking sounds very positive indeed
i always maintained the management were stupid but this takes things to whole new levels considering the timing lol
at the v least the law of probability suggests the next lot must be a bunch of Einsteins at this rate.
The REAL rebuilding of Lotus started yesterday.
Its probably not going to be a pretty sight either, but I have faith that the remaining staff (after the hangers on/ yes men/ornamental lot have gone)will do everything they can to repair the damage.
Wickens-Neilsen-Bahar the worst three CEO's Lotus ever had.
Its probably not going to be a pretty sight either, but I have faith that the remaining staff (after the hangers on/ yes men/ornamental lot have gone)will do everything they can to repair the damage.
Wickens-Neilsen-Bahar the worst three CEO's Lotus ever had.
WayneB said:
The REAL rebuilding of Lotus started yesterday.
Its probably not going to be a pretty sight either, but I have faith that the remaining staff (after the hangers on/ yes men/ornamental lot have gone)will do everything they can to repair the damage.
Wickens-Neilsen-Bahar the worst three CEO's Lotus ever had.
So, before they've said anything of their plans for Lotus, they've ousted the CEO and installed their own man. I'm worried that this is going to be not so much a rebuilding as a dismantling. I take no heart from the fact he's an engineer. They've got a lot of engineers already. What Lotus need is a guy who can sell cars and evangelise the brand. To date, this new guy has been faceless. I wish him well, but he's got a hell of a challenge.Its probably not going to be a pretty sight either, but I have faith that the remaining staff (after the hangers on/ yes men/ornamental lot have gone)will do everything they can to repair the damage.
Wickens-Neilsen-Bahar the worst three CEO's Lotus ever had.
As for Bahar, the naysayers can say what they want and they won't be proven wrong. History is written by the winners. We might get to see the Esprit sometime, but given the timings, I'm not going to hold my breath right now for any new cars.
It's the same as it was under DB - we can only judge the new owners by the results.
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