RE: Lotus 2-Eleven
Discussion
darth_pies said:
Why would anyone blow £40k on this when there are so many better options already out there?? Because it looks good? I suppose stranger things have happened...
Whilst Caterhams are not everybody's cup-of-tea you can get a very, very quick 7 for £40k that will, be lighter, more powerful, have a roof/doors/boot and almost certainly better residuals and lower running costs. And its a Lotus!
If not a 7 then Atoms, Radicals and a lot of the kit cars out there give you much more for less.
I heard a (well informed) rumour that the £40k price came about because Lotus thought they'd see just how ridiculous a price they could get away with and aren't aiming to sell it in any volume. Its just a PR story, not a serious proposition.
The 2-Eleven and the KTM X-Bow share a lot in common.....attractive looks, too heavy to be 'lightweight', lack of power to weight, likely be costly to run, absolutely no praticality and a general "mug's eyeful" ethos!
Both cars are vanity projects for companies who fancy being seen to be a 'player' out on track. When the PR stories have played out for them i predict both will vanish without trace....
Lotus have apparently sold all the 2-Eleven's already, so i guess you could say that it's job done. After all, they are in the business of selling cars...a point many people who've criticised it seem to miss. Whilst Caterhams are not everybody's cup-of-tea you can get a very, very quick 7 for £40k that will, be lighter, more powerful, have a roof/doors/boot and almost certainly better residuals and lower running costs. And its a Lotus!
If not a 7 then Atoms, Radicals and a lot of the kit cars out there give you much more for less.
I heard a (well informed) rumour that the £40k price came about because Lotus thought they'd see just how ridiculous a price they could get away with and aren't aiming to sell it in any volume. Its just a PR story, not a serious proposition.
The 2-Eleven and the KTM X-Bow share a lot in common.....attractive looks, too heavy to be 'lightweight', lack of power to weight, likely be costly to run, absolutely no praticality and a general "mug's eyeful" ethos!
Both cars are vanity projects for companies who fancy being seen to be a 'player' out on track. When the PR stories have played out for them i predict both will vanish without trace....
Given that Lotus usually lurch from crisis to crisis, I for one wouldn't begrudge them making any profit on this. They remain one of the few car manufacturers that continue to make painfully focused driver's cars, in a world of mass-manufactured rubbish, which given the forum that we're all part of, should be celebrated.
Mikeyboy said:
What sort of acceleration would be nice enough for you?
Ummm, well, as much as possible please!In real world terms its certainly not slow, but it doesn't compare that well to its established "lightweight track toys" competitors.
How did they strip everything off this car and still make it weigh 700kg?
(although not quite as disappointing as KTM making their carbon-tubbed X-bow weigh about that much!!)
No doubt it will handle sweetly, but then that didn't help the 340R much.
For me it just doesn't bring enough to the party. It sacrifices every last drop of practicality to match in straight-line performance several cars that are already out there and cheaper: Caterham, Atom, Brooke, Toniq R etc.
How will it fare out on the circuit with its 200kg weight defecit to an Atom?
Only a group test and lap times will tell the full story....
darth_pies said:
Mikeyboy said:
What sort of acceleration would be nice enough for you?
Ummm, well, as much as possible please!In real world terms its certainly not slow, but it doesn't compare that well to its established "lightweight track toys" competitors.
How did they strip everything off this car and still make it weigh 700kg?
(although not quite as disappointing as KTM making their carbon-tubbed X-bow weigh about that much!!)
darth_pies said:
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No doubt it will handle sweetly, but then that didn't help the 340R much.
The 2 Eleven laps Hethel 4 seconds quicker than even the Exige S so believe me, the 2 Eleven is a huge step forward over the 340R performance and handling wise.No doubt it will handle sweetly, but then that didn't help the 340R much.
It seems to me that you are more interested in on paper and straight line performance than outright handling and on track performance?
That is not meant in a derogitory (sp?) way it's just that some people get cars like the X Bow and 2 Eleven and some don't.
darth_pies said:
In real world terms its certainly not slow, but it doesn't compare that well to its established "lightweight track toys" competitors.
How did they strip everything off this car and still make it weigh 700kg?
The dry weight is 670kg, and Lotus are being honest by also quoting a fully laden weight.How did they strip everything off this car and still make it weigh 700kg?
Anyway, what do you expect? Elises weigh somewhere in the 700-800kg range. It's essentially an Elise, with the same weight of chassis, running gear, wheels, tyres, etc, plus a heavier engine, minus the windscreen and roof, lighter panels, and without a few fripperies. Where do you expect the 200kg weight loss to have come from?
darth_pies said:
For me it just doesn't bring enough to the party. It sacrifices every last drop of practicality to match in straight-line performance several cars that are already out there and cheaper: Caterham, Atom, Brooke, Toniq R etc.
Then... don't buy one, and stop moaning. 
Lots of people do like it, and like it enough to have bought one. We must all make our own choices...Edited by mft on Wednesday 27th June 09:56
sideways500 said:
A quick note to say that I thought a few recent stories have read like press releases but this article was much more what I want to read - personal impressions from someone who knows what makes driving fun. Thanks Adam.
Agreed 
I particularly liked the Vic Elford comment.I've not driven the car but did a fair few laps of the Hethel track as a passenger, both in the dry and wet once it started raining. This was in an early version of the car in October last year and I was driven my the Chief Engineer on the project so he knew the car well!
I've been an Esprit owner for 6 years and lived with almost all versions of the Esprit, from my 2.2NA to the 3.5 V8 twin turbo and have driven many other performance cars, both on the road and track.
The 211 is a tool. It's so damn quick, especially from 50-130/140 and the traction is out of this world. We were cornering at silly speeds and the car just took it in it's stride and pulled through the corners with amazing grip, surpassing even the 340r.
If you've got the money and are in the market for a track/road monster, take one for a drive, you'll be very very impressed!
I've been an Esprit owner for 6 years and lived with almost all versions of the Esprit, from my 2.2NA to the 3.5 V8 twin turbo and have driven many other performance cars, both on the road and track.
The 211 is a tool. It's so damn quick, especially from 50-130/140 and the traction is out of this world. We were cornering at silly speeds and the car just took it in it's stride and pulled through the corners with amazing grip, surpassing even the 340r.
If you've got the money and are in the market for a track/road monster, take one for a drive, you'll be very very impressed!
TimJMS said:
What the KTM really brings to the party is a superbly well designed body and chassis which incorporates use of ground effect.
Yeah, you can't deny the KTM looks the mutt's dangly bits 'in the flesh'. The 'angular orange bits' look from the Superduke looks very fresh on a car.It will certainly be interesting to see if all the aero stuff helps it overcome the boat anchor of an Audi engine and drivetrain! God forbid you ever had a small shunt in one though...the whole front of the car back to the engine is one piece of carbon!
Going way off topic, but was highly amused by the KTM sales guys at the FOS:
"How many have you sold?"
"I've sold about 30 myself this weekend and we've taken hundreds of UK orders"
"So you're taking deposits?"
"No, its more of an enquiry form"
"So you can't put money down and get a production slot?"
"No. We're not taking any money because we're not sure if we can build the car until 2009-2010"
I therefore went and "purchased" a X-Bow by filling out a form with my email address!
2-Eleven: i've fallen into the trap of rubbishing something i haven't driven. I'll shut-up about it!
darth_pies said:
2-Eleven: i've fallen into the trap of rubbishing something i haven't driven. I'll shut-up about it!
I think we've all been guilty of that every now and again! 
Top Gear seemed to enjoy it!
=>
http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/20...
As much as I would like to like the 2-eleven, it just doesn't really interest me. I don't think it's a very particular good looking car (or tracktoy) either.
Before I would get a 2-eleven, it would be a Caterham for me. Lighter, quicker and prettier. And most likely cheaper too. Or a KTM X-Bow. Now that's a beautiful tracktoy...
To me, the 2-eleven is just an Elise without a roof. Even worse - it looks just like a boat on wheels. :-/
Before I would get a 2-eleven, it would be a Caterham for me. Lighter, quicker and prettier. And most likely cheaper too. Or a KTM X-Bow. Now that's a beautiful tracktoy...
To me, the 2-eleven is just an Elise without a roof. Even worse - it looks just like a boat on wheels. :-/
I think a lot of people are forgettng what this car comes equipped with fully adjustable set up and fully adjustable tracksion conrol which you can set to your own perferd setting, which is going to make you drive alot faster round the track as you can give the car all of its power with out you ending up in the barrer, and the whole idea of track day is to try and win rather than just drive, last thing you would want to do is let the back step out on a radical and loose it where this has the ability to be fast and safe then drive it back home and put it in the garage
VeeUUowner said:
the whole idea of track day is to try and win rather than just drive, last thing you would want to do is let the back step out on a radical and loose it where this has the ability to be fast and safe then drive it back home and put it in the garage
I think you are confusing track days with racing.darth_pies said:
It will certainly be interesting to see if all the aero stuff helps it overcome the boat anchor of an Audi engine and drivetrain! God forbid you ever had a small shunt in one though...the whole front of the car back to the engine is one piece of carbon!
Good point, and one that reminds me of the 340r. I'm sure the insurers will take their position on this in the fullness of time Nice to know we're both owners 
.Hedgerley said:
Jason Plato took it out for a spin on 5th Gear. I reckon he ran out of words trying to decribe how good it was. In his view, 'they've got right. Its brilliant'. Its repeated in the week.
And for those that can't wait for the repeat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFkN3UXJ8BYTimJMS said:
VeeUUowner said:
the whole idea of track day is to try and win rather than just drive
I think you are confusing track days with racing.TimJMS said:
darth_pies said:
It will certainly be interesting to see if all the aero stuff helps it overcome the boat anchor of an Audi engine and drivetrain! God forbid you ever had a small shunt in one though...the whole front of the car back to the engine is one piece of carbon!
Good point, and one that reminds me of the 340r. I'm sure the insurers will take their position on this in the fullness of time Nice to know we're both owners Gassing Station | General Lotus Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff